Academic views, controversies, liberal views, eclectic discussions and so forth. Also, extended debates may be moved here. May contain discussion on views that a devotee may find objectionable.
Lesbian and Gay devotees - how they are accepted
ananga - Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:23:20 +0530
I was wondering how gay/lesbian devotees are accepted within your particular sanga / by your own Gurudev.
I'm particularly interested in non ISKCON/GM stories.
My Diksha Guru who is a westerner has more of an understanding of gay people whereas my (sort of siksha-) guru who is indian is accepting of me but perhaps not really understanding that part of me too well.
Jai Sri Radhe
nabadip - Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:16:21 +0530
I do not think we have any notion of each other as of a social, racial, sexual orientation much. Such differentiations have not come up often, so at least from the explicit side, from what is discussed here in forums, there is little to go by. Now, since you start this topic, I would be interested in how you relate to the rasa-lila model that accepts the male-female bi-polarity and dynamic.
As far as the question about gurus is concerned, I doubt it would make much sense to talk about such issues. No Indian bhakta would ever talk to his/her guru about personal questions like that, unless asked. You do not want to go and disturb your guru's bhajan with personal matters. I understand your siksha-guru's reaction well. He is probably just shaking his head in the agreeing mode side to side - why should he get into things that are not of his interest? There is so much else between Indian and Westerner that remains in the dark as well. And is best kept there.
Keshava - Sat, 03 Jul 2004 11:29:23 +0530
QUOTE(ananga @ Jun 24 2004, 11:53 PM)
I was wondering how gay/lesbian devotees are accepted within your particular sanga / by your own Gurudev.
I'm particularly interested in non ISKCON/GM stories.
Here are some quotes by a Gay Sri Vaisnava friend of mine.
kvacit puman kvacic ca stri kvacin nobhayam andhadhih |
devo manusyas-tiryag va yatha karma gunam bhavah ||
The jiva who is blinded by ignorance, sometimes is embodied as a man, sometimes as a woman, sometimes as a gay. According to its deeds and the nature he acquires thereby, he may be born as a deva, a human or a beast.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.29.
cikitsa jayate tasya garbhavasa pariksaye |
nari vatha naro vatha napumsatvah vabhijayate || 29 ||
Whatever the sexual orientation of the child whether it be
male, female or homosexual it is born in the ninth or the tenth month.
Garuda. Purana. 2.32.29
He is a westerner and I am unaware whether his guru knows of his orientation.
Keshava
betal_nut - Sat, 03 Jul 2004 21:33:52 +0530
Western devottees seem to bring alot of their personal issues to the guru which Indian devottees do not, most probably because ours is a hush-hush culture. Don't ask. Don't tell.
Keshava - Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:18:38 +0530
Yes, I agree with Betal. The subject probably just doesn't come up in the regular guru/sisya relationship in India. Why should it?
Keshava
betal_nut - Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:43:39 +0530
Things are improving in India for homosexuals;
http://www.sangamaonline.org/aboutsangama.htm