Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.
Ruchi-pradhan and vichar-pradhan sadhakas - Two flavors of practitioners in Bhakti-sandarbha
Sakhicharan - Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:19:11 +0530
There are, according to Sri Jiva Prabhu, two kinds of raganuga sadhakas, ruchi-pradhana and vichara-pradhana. He says the former are better, as they don't spend so much time trying to understand what's going on, they just do it. The latter are not without hope however. They start with ruchi, but then need to back up their attraction with rational analysis.
There are many pitfalls for the person who takes up manjari bhava and has a vichara-pradhana tendency.
The word ruchi may cause confusion, as the way Jiva has used it is not a technical term meaning the same as ruchi in the steps leading to prema (Adau zraddhA, etc.)
I am not so familiar with the terms ruci-pradhan and vicar-pradhan used in regard to raganuga bhajan.
Jagat, can you kindly provide the verse(s) from Jiva Goswamipad along with translation?
Perhaps even the verses that precede and succeed in order to gain a feel for the context.
I find it a confusing concept...the need to "back up" one's ruci with rationality.
Madhava - Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:16:12 +0530
No verses, actually, but long chunks of prose. Since I have the file (commentary on Madhurya-kadambini) at hand, I'll post it in.
Srila Jiva Goswamipada makes another division in shraddha, according to the category of devotees who are vicAra-pradhAna (inclined to logic and argument) or ruci-pradhAna. This is how the intellectually-inclined devotees develop their shraddha—
tatra prathamaM tAvat tat-tat-saGgAj jAtena tat-tac-chraddhA-tat-tat-paramparA-kathA-rucy-AdinA jAta-bhagavat-sAmmukhyasya tat-tad-anuSaGgenaiva tat-tad-bhajanIye bhagavad-AvirbhAva-vizeSe tat-tad-bhajana-mArga-vizeSe ca rucir jAyate. tataz ca vizeSa-bubhutsAyAM satyAM teSv ekato’nekato vA zrI-gurutvenAzritAc chravaNaM kriyate. tac copakramopasaMhArAdibhir arthAvadhAraNaM, punaz cAsambhAvanA-viparIta-bhAvanA-vizeSevatA svayaM tad-vicAra-rUpaM mananam api kriyate. tato bhagavataH sarvasminn evAvirbhAve tathA-vidho’sau sadA sarvatra virAjata ity evaM-rUpA zraddhA jAyate… ity evaM vicAra-pradhAnAnAM mArgo darzitaH.
Through the association of sadhus, the intellectually-inclined devotee gets a particular kind of faith in the Supreme Truth and subsequently a taste for discussions related to these subjects. Thus turned towards the Lord, they concomitantly develop a taste for a specific form of the worshipable Lord and the particular path of worshiping him. When they desire to know more specifically about these things, they take shelter of one or more of these sadhus as zravaNa-gurus in order to undertake a study of the scriptures. A thorough study of the scriptures means to analyze them with reference to their beginning and conclusion (upakrama-upasaMhAra), repeated themes (abhyAsa), original ideas (apUrvatA), promised benefits (phala), elements selected for particular praise (artha-vAda), and proofs and arguments (upapatti). After such hearing, one goes on to reflecting on what one has heard (manana) in order to get rid of two kinds of doubt: thinking that what one has heard is impossible (asambhAvanA) and thinking that it is false (viparIta-bhAvanA)[*]. As a result of following this process, one develops faith that the all-merciful omnipotent and omniscient Lord resides everywhere within all manifestations, and that one should serve him with devotion.… This is the path followed by the intellectual devotees. (Bhakti Sandarbha, 202).
As for the ruci-pradhAna devotees, Sri Jiva describes their attainment of faith in the following way:
ruci-pradhAnAnAM tu na tAdRg-vicArApekSA jAyate. kintu sAdhu-saGga-lIlA-kathana-zravaNa-ruchi-zraddhA-zravaNAdy-AvRtti-rUpa evAsau mArgaH
Those devotees who are predominantly motivated by taste do not depend on this kind of intellectual process. They simply hear the Lord’s pastimes from the sadhus and attain a taste for them. This is followed by shraddha. Their path then consists of continuing to hear and chant, etc., with faith. (ibid.)
. . .
[*] In the Krama-sandarbha to BhAg. 1.2.21 and Bhakti-sandarbha 16, Sri Jiva explains: tatra zravaNena tAvaj-jJeya-gatAsambhAvanAz chidyante iti. mananena tad-gata-viparIta-bhAvanAH. sAkSAtkAreNa tv Atma-yogyatA-gatAsambhAvanA-viparIta-bhAvane iti jJeyam. “AsambhAvanA or doubts related to the possibility of the object of knowledge existing can be erased by hearing. Reflection is the means of cutting through doubts about its falsehood. Direct experience of the object of truth will get rid of such doubts related to oneself, i.e., the impossibility of attaining perfection and the false concept of self.
Sakhicharan - Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:26:48 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Sep 5 2005, 03:46 AM)
As a result of following this process, one develops faith that the all-merciful omnipotent and omniscient Lord resides everywhere within all manifestations, and that one should serve him with devotion.… This is the path followed by the intellectual devotees. (Bhakti Sandarbha, 202).
My question was that I had not heard the terms ruci/vicar pradhan used in regard to raganuga bhajan. This quote certainly seems to be describing a bhakta following the vaidhi marg, is it not?
This verse comes to mind...does it correlate with the verse above?
ajata-tadrsa-rucina tu sad-visesa adaramatradrta raganugapi vaidhi-samvalitaivanus heya
tatha loka-sangrahartam pratis hitena jata-tadrsa-rucina ca
atra misratve ca tyatha-yogyam raganugayaikikrtyaiva vaidhi kartavya
Bhakti Sandarbha 311
"One in whom this taste (ruci) has not arisen, but has come to appreciate raganuga bhakti only on account of his appreciation of a particular saint or scripture (sat), may still practice it but with an admixture of vaidhi bhakti. In the same way, for the sake of preaching (loka-sangrahartaham) one who is advanced and in whom taste has manifested, should also practice raganuga with an admixture of vaidhi. Such mixing of the two kinds of bhakti means that one practices vaidhi bhakti by uniting it with whatever raganuga practices one is capable of."
I wonder if someone would like to contrast the terms ruci/vicar pradhan and jata/ajata ruci sadhakas?
Sakhicharan - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 02:58:19 +0530
QUOTE(vijayalakshmi @ Sep 6 2005, 03:38 PM)
The way I am reading it is, the sadhaka in whom ruci has arisen (ruci= "not a technical term meaning the same as ruchi in the steps leading to prema (Adau zraddhA, etc.)") but who is obviously not siddha yet still goes through a process of growth in bhajan, strengthening sraddha etc. These two categories "ruci/vicar pradhan" delineate how that sraddha is strengthened ie. primarily through the ruci or with the help of philosophical explanations. I don't see why the later must necessarily
be labeled "vaidhi bhakti."
The verse I quoted from Madhava's post was prefaced by him as a division of zraddhA (vicar pradhan.)
There are two types of zraddhA...sastra mayi and lobh mayi.
Sastra mayi zraddhA leads to vaidhi sadhan bhakti, which leads to nistha in vaidhi bhakti, ruchi in vaidhi bhakti sadhan, which leads to asakti in the aiswarya-mayi ista deva of that bhajan, which leads to aiswarya bhava and then aiswarya prem or vaikuntha prem...
Lobh mayi zraddhA results in nistha in raganuga bhajan, ruci in raganuga bhajan, and on to Braj bhav and Braj prem...
This is my humble understanding of zraddhA.
Examine this passage...
As a result of following this process (of study of the scriptures), one develops faith that the all-merciful omnipotent and omniscient Lord resides everywhere within all manifestations, and that one should serve him with devotion.… This is the path followed by the intellectual devotees. (Bhakti Sandarbha, 202).
Actually go back and read the whole quote. It appears to me that the faith described here was born of scriptural injunctions...hence my use of the term vaidhi marg.
vijayalakshmi - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 03:25:57 +0530
You are probably right. I have no idea what I am talking about!
Sakhicharan - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 03:38:47 +0530
O priya vijaya....you are a character!
vijayalakshmi - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 03:42:23 +0530
I don't mean to be irreverent. I am just trying to participate in the discussion, but as usual to no avail, as all are my elders and so very knowledgeable. Sorry if it came across in a bad way.
Jagat - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 05:02:59 +0530
With regards to the ruchi question. In the passage cited (BhaktiS 202), the subject under discussion is Vaishnava sanga as the cause of devotional service. The section ends by saying that "of the Vaishnavas with whom one is associating, one chooses one specific individual as sravana guru."
Jiva begins by describing the way that ruchi awakens, and then in order to gain special knowledge, goes on to ask questions of many people. Then at the end of the passage, he makes a distinction between jAta-ruci and vicAra-pradhAna. So there appear to be different uses of the word.
Sakhicharan - Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:33:11 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Sep 6 2005, 06:32 PM)
With regards to the ruchi question. In the passage cited (BhaktiS 202), the subject under discussion is Vaishnava sanga as the cause of devotional service.
Thanks for providing some context here. Can you explain/provide the verse(s) that began this discussion of Jiva Goswamipada's on this topic?
I would like to hear his description on how ruci is awakened.