Google
Web         Gaudiya Discussions
Gaudiya Discussions Archive » PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY
Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Taking things less seriously - Krishna as the dhira-lalita-nayaka



Jagat - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:31:44 +0530
Dhyana wrote on another thread that we should take ourselves less seriously.

One of my favorite quotes is Nietzsche's "I could only believe in a God who dances." Kinsley wrote a book "Krishna, the Divine Player." Certainly one of the things that attracted me to Krishna is his being the dhira-lalita nayaka--

vidagdho nava-tAruNyaH parihAsa-vizAradaH
nizcinto dhIra-lalitaH syAt prAyaH preyasI-vazaH

Now here's a concept of God that is really odd. He is vidagdha, which really means that he is a flirt and capable of attracting the minds of the opposite sex with his clever comments and mannerisms. He is young and handsome. He loves to joke around. He is free from worries and he is a bit henpecked, easily coming under the control of his mistress. In other words, he is the Anti-God. And I think that this is what Nietzsche was getting at: this is not the thundering God of the Super Ego, but the liberating God who makes us laugh and love.

Not that there is nothing serious about Krishna--after all, if you fall in love with someone, even if he is a joker, you can get pretty seriously crazy.

"Dieu n'est qu'un fumeur de GÓtanes..." (Serge Gainsbourg)
Jagat - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:56:18 +0530
I think that the beauty of such a concept of God comes in part from accepting the uncertainty of God himself. One is pinced between the overbearing God of the fundamentalists and the overbearing no-God of the secularists. It's either indifference or a God who dances.

In historical terms, I see the rise of Krishna in the context of (1) a very unpleasant Allah bearing down on the Hindus on the one side, and (2) a rather vapid monistic conception within a rigid varnashram environment on the other. Somewhere in all this was a somewhat friendlier Sufism and the richness of Bhakti.

Who would not prefer a Nataraj? This is what Krishna, Mahaprabhu and Shiva all have in common. Pick a God who dances with his Preyasi.
Dhyana - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:09:12 +0530
QUOTE
Dhyana wrote on another thread that we should take ourselves less seriously.

The credit goes to Talasiga, actually. His instinctive tongue-in-cheekness, his ear for poetry and his genius of double talk must be making him very dear to one Joker we know...

QUOTE
and he is a bit henpecked, easily coming under the control of his mistress.

...and at least just as easily getting out of control! w00t.gif
bhaktashab - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:22:41 +0530
But what ever happened to 'my way or the highway' blink.gif

On second thoughts the highway is probably a lot faster.
babu - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:04:08 +0530
Interesting points Jagat and Dhyana and Talasiga but personally I feel with all the problems in the world that its not p.c. to dance or joke around anymore.
bhaktashab - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:15:33 +0530
QUOTE(babu @ Jan 6 2005, 05:34 PM)
Interesting points Jagat and Dhyana and Talasiga but personally I feel with all the problems in the world that its not p.c. to dance or joke around anymore.



Dear Babu,

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Could you please explain further?
Jagat - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:15:54 +0530
Coming from an inveterate joker like yourself, that is rather radical, Babu. Tragedy is the way of the world, who will deny it? janma=mRtyu-jarA-vyAdhi-duHkha-doSAnudarzanam.

At the same time, AnandAd imAni bhUtAni jAyante...

This is the core.
babu - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:26:57 +0530
QUOTE(bhaktashab @ Jan 6 2005, 05:45 PM)
QUOTE(babu @ Jan 6 2005, 05:34 PM)
Interesting points Jagat and Dhyana and Talasiga but personally I feel with all the problems in the world that its not p.c. to dance or joke around anymore.



Dear Babu,

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Could you please explain further?



Don't become serious about taking yourself less seriously.
bhaktashab - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:32:17 +0530
QUOTE(babu @ Jan 6 2005, 05:56 PM)
Don't become serious about taking yourself less seriously.


I seriously beg to differ.
babu - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:32:40 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Jan 6 2005, 05:45 PM)
Coming from an inveterate joker like yourself, that is rather radical, Babu.


It was a joke and assiduous to my nature.
DharmaChakra - Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:46:25 +0530
QUOTE(babu @ Jan 6 2005, 01:34 PM)
Interesting points Jagat and Dhyana and Talasiga but personally I feel with all the problems in the world that its not p.c. to dance or joke around anymore.


Right!
Attachment: Image
Subal - Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:48:32 +0530
I agree with Jagat's assessment of Krishna and that is why I am so attracted to him and his beloveds. The question then comes to mind, if Krishna is such a joker and playboy, why are so many of his followers dull, serious, caught up in leading such ascetic lives of self denial as they struggle to adhere to volumes of foreign rules and regulations which creates a huge repressed "shadow self" that lashes out in unhealthy ways. Make friends with your shadow, laugh, dance, play, make love.

On NPR yesterday, I heard a story about providing mental health services to the tsunami survivors in India. The point was made that a trained Indian psychologist would not be able to relate to them because he/she would be coming from such a vastly different environment. How then as Westerners can we be healthy living a rigid lifestyle that actually only a relatively small number of Indians even live.

There is great attractiveness in Krishna leela and raganuga bhakti. It has to become nativized in the West for it to have wide relavance and provide a healthier lifestyle where we can all laugh! laugh.gif
Dhyana - Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:51:34 +0530
(Jagat)
QUOTE
Tragedy is the way of the world, who will deny it?

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think. (anon.)
Tapati - Fri, 07 Jan 2005 03:15:58 +0530

When things are really bad, all that you can do sometimes is laugh. I am a firm believer in gallows humor and it has helped me survive some really difficult things.

Wallowing in guilt and sadness won't help the suffering people of the world (such as the tsunami survivors). If we take care of our hearts by loving and laughing, we are better able to help them.

Chanahari - Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +0530
QUOTE(Subal @ Jan 6 2005, 08:18 PM)
I agree with Jagat's assessment of Krishna and that is why I am so attracted to him and his beloveds. The question then comes to mind, if Krishna is such a joker and playboy, why are so many of his followers dull, serious, caught up in leading such ascetic lives of self denial as they struggle to adhere to volumes of foreign rules and regulations which creates a huge repressed "shadow self" that lashes out in unhealthy ways. Make friends with your shadow, laugh, dance, play, make love.



That is what I also pondered on for so long time (and so did Dirty Hari on this board, in his interesting style...), and

QUOTE(Subal @ Jan 6 2005, 08:18 PM)
There is great attractiveness in Krishna leela and raganuga bhakti. It has to become nativized in the West for it to have wide relavance and provide a healthier lifestyle where we can all laugh!† laugh.gif



that was my conclusion too. smile.gif
Satyabhama - Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:40:53 +0530
QUOTE
I agree with Jagat's assessment of Krishna and that is why I am so attracted to him and his beloveds. The question then comes to mind, if Krishna is such a joker and playboy, why are so many of his followers dull, serious, caught up in leading such ascetic lives of self denial as they struggle to adhere to volumes of foreign rules and regulations which creates a huge repressed "shadow self" that lashes out in unhealthy ways. Make friends with your shadow, laugh, dance, play, make love.


I don't see why anyone has to renounce anything to love krishna. Love Krishna, keep your home, wife, life- Love Him comfortably- love Him as you love your relatives. Take care of thakurji as you do your kids. Then Krishna becomes your child. Take care of Him as you take care of your husband- He becomes your husband...

If asceticism comes, let it come by itself. (ie. when the pleasure of being with Krishna has already made the other pleasures in life feel redundant (at best), and not before).

jaya sri krishna!
Tapati - Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:51:24 +0530

The shadow self is a great subject all on its own, and now that you mention it there's a book I read last year that is really excellent: The Dark Side of the Light Chasers: Reclaiming Your Power, Creativity, Brilliance, and Dreams by Debbie Ford. For those of us who are trying to hard to progress in spiritual life and manifest positive qualities, sometimes that shadow side creeps up on us. This book explains how it all works and other ways to deal with your shadow.

That way you won't end up on the dark side of the Force. smile.gif
sadhaka108 - Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:30:21 +0530
About the shadow are there another cool book called "Meeting the Shadow, The Hidden Power of the Dark Side of Human Nature" a org with essays of a lot of authors like Joseph Campbell, Jung and others. The orgs are from Connie Zweig and Jeremiah Abrams.