Garbhadhana Samskara and raising devotee children -

Dear members,

I have two questions:

I have been searching for quite some time for the prayers and rituals used for performing the ceremony of gharbhadhana samskara but to no avail. Does anyone know where I might find the mantras, etc. in a concise and written form? Or would anyone be able to share their personal (yet not too personal : ) ) experiences with this samskara?

For those of you with children, how has the experience of having children changed your devotional practice?

Thank you for your help!

Jayatirtha Charan Das, proprietor of http://www.salagram.net/Sri-Shaligram-Tirtha.htm , is an expert on this.

Here is his page on the subject:
http://www.hknet.org.nz/garbhage1.html

Personally I am very skeptical about it all, having tried Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada's prescriptions for many years and had no sucess at all, then finding children come when you stop worrying about it. I personally believe they are all sent by God, with or without mantra, and that what matters more is how they are treated after they are born.

But that's just my opinion.

No Gaudiya Guru outside Iskcon, either Gaudiya Math or traditional Parivari, will tell you how to conduct your Grihastha life, including having and raising children, though they may offer advice if asked. Traditionally, how you conduct your Grihastha affairs is seen as your own personal business, to be conducted according to the Dharma of your own Jati (your birth family!).

But if you want to follow the Vedic Marg, as I said, Jayatritha Charan has made it his life's work to study these things and he is very knowledgeable, though he favours the South Indian Vaishnava Vidhi (and calls himself 'Dasan').

From a Gaudiya perspective, Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada's prescription, that you chant 50 rounds before on the day of trying to conceive, is certainly a very good way of ensuring a good conciousness while attempting to conceive. JTCharanji is just saying that having a priest perform a Puja ceremony is even more effective, in his opinion. Certainly any such Pujas should be performed by a qualified priest. (Not sure what is involved but should not be intrusive). The 'do-it-yourself' approach to ritual, apart from the intensive Harinam Japa as prescribed by ACBSP ('harinam eva kevalam...'), or apart from other aspects of Sadhana prescribed by one's personal Guru, cannot be regarded as Vedic Vaishnava.

But nowadays with older couples the problem is often the inability to conceive at all. In these circumstances, in my opinion, you have to be practical, and Brahmins I consulted in India confirmed this view. After all, in his Bhagavatam Commentary, Srila Prabhupada says that Grihasthas should follow the 'Kama-shastra' and if you read those books you will find quite a variety of approaches to the various Grihastha problems (!).

How do children change devotional practice? You have less time and freedom, you are really tested, you stop blaming your own parents for everything because you realise how hard it is, so you become more mature emotionally, more tolerant, more practical because you see that you might have gigantic dreams but the Lord may have other ideas...hmmm, hard to say!

Welcome to the discussions, Chakora. Please take a minute to fill out your profile and introduce yourself to the group, so that we know who we are speaking with.

Dear Ananga and Adiyen,

Sorry, where are my manners? I am a member of ISKCON (in the US) and a friend reccommended this site to me. I have read some of the threads and they have given me an appreciation for other Vaisnava paths. Thank you to all of you.

Adiyen, thank you very much for your insights and for the link. I take it that you have children? If so, how are you arranging for their education?

I never liked the idea of Gurukula, sorry to say, ever since I read the first paragraph of the Gurukula Handbook, 'All devotees will...when the children turn 5...leave them in a Gurukula and go out and preach'. (paraphrase)

I left Iskcon in 1986, just before my first child was born. So many reasons, but avoiding Gurukula may have been one.

So my kids went to 'karmi' school. They have 2-4 years of High School left. They're average kids, I know devotee kids who have had many more problems than they have. They both like visiting the Temple, eating prasad, and they participate in the Puja we do in our home.

My belief is that they should make a free choice when they are old enough. I could force them to take initiation, but this goes against what I feel is right.

I found the best way to show them Bhakti was by example, not that I am a good example, my wife is better, but when they see you doing it, they want to do it too.

You're quite welcome, Chakora.

Radhe Radhe!

welcome chakora.

very nice attitude, dear Adiyen.

i´m a "karmi"-teacher and my class is 4c , that means the 4th year in elementary school.
i also think that its a good way to find a nice "karmi"-school (what a nonsense name!).

my pupils are now 9-10 years old and if you show them how to be a nice decent human being, they very much appreciate.
if i will have children, i would send them to a regular school too.
let them decide and show them your example.
naturally they will heed your advice. if you are sincere and authentic.

most kiddos between 6-10 are very easy to educate if you lead a sane and healthy life.
my kiddos in school naturally like God, vegetarians, prasadam ...
they are open for spiritual topics.

i´ve seen teachers (mostly ladies), whom i would trust wholeheartedly whereas in some temples where there was kind of "gurukula",
i doubted certain motives...

there are also very nice alternative schools.
like the walldorf-schools (Rudolf Steiner) or the Montessori-schools.

anway,
i like being a teacher in a "karmi"-school, dealing with mleccha-pupils ( my kindred anyway!).


Tarunji

I wasn't going to post here but Tarun Kishor mentioned Montessori and my wife runs a Montessori pre-school so now I've been prompted. (BTW, Tarunji, Kristine's daughter goes to this school. I think you mentioned Kristine in another thread?)

Garbhadana:

Did you notice that JTCharan named that page "garbhage1.html". A little play on words there.

I have some faith in the odd/even night concept, partially due to my interest in jyotish. I thought JTC had included that somewhere also but did not find it.

From google: http://www.sanathanadharma.com/samskaras/prenatal.htm

"sixteenth a learned, auspicious, truthful, self-controlled and a refuge of all creatures is born"

The "Proof"

But that theory goes against science to some extent, which, if I understand correctly, posits that a female is more likely earlier, a male more likely the closer to ovulation, due to a difference in "swimming speed" and lifespan. Although I may have gotten that from reading an alternative book on parenting.

Schooling:

I've been associated with and taught at gurukulas in India and in the West. The West was much harder and ultimately I couldn't continue with it as I felt that there was a terrible dichomoty between what we were teaching and the world those children would live in. Actually it was a three-way division: gurukula vs temple and gurukula vs world (and world vs temple). Gurukula made more sense in India (both Mayapura and Vrindban) but again there was a doubt as to what kind of society those kids would graduate into.

That said, I also cannot stomach the public school system, but thankfully my wife is an educator, both by nature and Montessori training so we have the early years figured out.

Radhe Radhe!

incredible!

hey braja, i know your wife from my trip to the States.
once, me and my friend Marcus slept one night in her apartment she shared with another lady.
she was so friendly and we had lots of fun.
far-out.

her name then was Billy-Jo. i heard she´s initiated.
tell her my best wishes. tell her i´m the German devotee who cooked for the 2nd ave and that i looked like Coronel Clink.

do you live near Paramananda´s house (Porcell from Shelter)?
i´m real good friends with him.

who are you?
do i know you?
have you been around there in the states 1996?

funny.

tell me

all the best

Tarunji ( back then Thorsten)

That's the one. She's Gaura Priya now.

And yes, we're just around the corner from Porcell and EVR Steve & Kate. I think I'm the only one in the community without any ink or hardcore contaminat... oops, history. In '96 I was either in Vrindaban or New Zealand. I'm not from here.


Colonel Klink!? Why, you have a monocle? You're partially bald? Play the violin maybe...

http://barracks.4t.com/KlinkViolin.jpg

Radhe!

my greetings !

no, i have a big head like the coronel and i had the same freaking glasses!

cool picture.

whats your name?

tell Steve, Kate, Porcell my dandavat pranam.
they know me too.

Tarunji

Thanks, Braj, this succinctly expresses my feelings too.

I worked in Australia's Murwillumbah Gurukula for a couple of years in the 1980's, where there appears to have been no abuse because it was staffed by qualified (women) teachers and was well funded. But still the 'devotee/karmi' divide bothered me. One teacher brought in a popular old book of funny poems, a 'karmi' book. There was a huge uproar with the school divided into pro- and anti- factions. It was ridiculous, the book was harmless.

So I went to Mayapur and worked with BVPS, then Anirdesh-Vapu Das, in his Gurukula aspiring to a Vedic ethos. I thought the Bengali boys in the school were the happiest kids I had ever met, and they had nothing, 2 sets of clothes and a trunk, they made all their own toys, organised their own religious festivals. It was so sweet. One of the happiest years of my life. I thought Anirdesh was a caring and kind Headmaster with some interesting ideas and his daily program was very impressive. Now I am told there was abuse, I'm not sure what or where or by who. Perhaps it happened after I left.

My perception then was that, in teaching kids to fear the 'karmi' world, we were setting up a kind of wierd cult. But in India, being a devotee was just so natural in the social setting. That started the search which led me eventually to the 'raganuga' camp.

The funny thing about the cult mentality, as with the uproar over the 'Karmi' book, was that it was not forced on us by the leaders, who had no objection to the book. Rather the ordinary devotees seemed to be demanding to be 'brainwashed', to be invoking some sort of assumed mindset, which was actually not Vaishnavism as I saw it practised in India but something else, perhaps it is the Puritanical religious structure on which western society was founded.

Colonel Klink, Tarun? Really?

Radhe Radhe!

ok, friends .

i´ll let it out.this is me.
i hope Madhavaji will insert my stupid face!

a little bit like the colonel, yeah.

hmmmm....

so what.

here we go!

Here goes...

Admittedly, the similarities between Tarun Kishor and Colonel Klink are quite remarkable.

Those glases are a lot like the continuous bifocals I wear, although my frames are lighter weight (titanium).

Maybe it's the hat, but if you ask me I get a little bit of a Cap'n Crunch vibe.