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Discussions specifically related with the various aspects of practice of bhakti-sadhana in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Offering obeisances! -



gauraprema - Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:48:22 +0530
DEar devotees,

RAdhe Radhe!

I'm not really a frequent poster, and I'm sorry if this question sounds a little inane, but...

I was just wondering, in ISKCON and GM, it is taught that upon seeing a sannyasi, it is proper to offer obeisances immediately, no matter where you are. Is this the same practice in Vraja and RAdha Kunda with the Babaji Maharajas, where if you are so fortunate as to see them, you also offer immediate obeisances?

Also, usually when offering obeisances, one chants the pranam mantra of the Guru (in ISKCON and GM), what is the practice with those of the traditional parivars? Would anyone care to shed some light on these questions?

Thanks for your time!

Jai RAdhe!

Sudevi dasi biggrin.gif
adiyen - Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:35:12 +0530
Dear Sudevi,
Interesting question. So far I have not encountered a 'pranam mantra' amongst traditional Gaudiyas, like the ones I was taught in Iskcon.

But even in Gaudiya Math things are more flexible than in Iskcon. Or just different. For example in some Gaudiya Math temples, the sannyasis must serve prasad. In Radhakunda also, the Babajis must serve prasad. No one else is permitted to.

In Gaudiya Math temples, no one should offer obeisances to the Deity before the most senior person in the room has first offered their dandabat. Others remain standing with palms closed in Pranam. Such Pranam is also adequate to greet Sannyasis.

Again in some Gaudiya Math temples, for example Bhakti Sarang Maharaj's, senior women are also shown respect by everyone, including Sannyasis, offering dandabat when they enter a room.

And Bengali devotees are accustomed to offer dandabat to almost any devotee, including westerners. They take 'Trinad api..' quite literally. That is, in terms of hierarchy, they see themselves as in a lowly position, offering respects to all and not expecting respect from others.

I know two Iskcon devotees, a western married couple, who went to visit Srila Bhaktivinoda's son when he was still alive, and were amazed when he offered his dandabats to them upon seeing them, but that is quite normal for traditional Gaudiyas. The normal thing to say in all circumstances is 'Vancha kalpa tarubhyas...' but this can also be said without bowing down.

One should offer dandabat when seeing one's Guru, and in Radhakunda everyone offers obeisances when they see Panditji Ananta Das Baba. Other than that it is up to the individual. A matter of inspiration and practicality. If one folds one's palms when seeing a Vaishnav, that is regarded as very nice.
Gaurasundara - Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:45:30 +0530
QUOTE(adiyen @ Oct 27 2003, 02:05 AM)
One should offer dandabat when seeing one's Guru, and in Radhakunda everyone offers obeisances when they see Panditji Ananta Das Baba.

A related question to this statement:

I've heard a lot about Pandit Ananta das Baba through his disciples, books and pictures that Yugal-Kishoraji posts. It is evident that Panditji commands a lot of respect in the area. Everyone comes to listen to his pathas, according to the pictures.

My question is, is he the only Vaishnava like that in the Vrindavan area, famous like that? Or are there other similar "bigshot" gurus around? Does any other guru give pathas somewhere to which a lot of devotees turn up? Do people hear any patha by anybody because of "sravana," Panditji's pathas because he is the Mahanta, or because his lectures are very inspiring?

Of course by "bigshot" I am referring to a deep knowledge of siddhanta as well as a high level of spiritual advancement such as Panditji's. No offence intended towards anyone, just a genuine question.
adiyen - Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:51:22 +0530
QUOTE(Vaishnava-das @ Oct 27 2003, 03:15 AM)
My question is, is he the only Vaishnava like that in the Vrindavan area, famous like that?

There are several highly regarded devotees who give patha. Sometimes several give at the same time and one must choose.

First there is Panditji's young disciple, Vaishnav-pada Das (Vishvanath Chakravarti) who gives several classes every day during festivals, to Panditji's one (or is it two?). All are standing-room-only. I mention VPD because he is the most prolific. He is only 30 yrs, yet Panditji says he has learnt everything fully and is very highly qualified. Then there is, I think his name is Shyamsundar Pandit. He is, I think, a householder, but his daily Patha is very highly regarded, often at the same time as Panditji but he still attracts a large crowd of regulars. My own Gurudeva gives a Patha daily this year I am told. There are others I don't know. Last year when Nitya-Gopal Gosvamiji visited, he gave 2 pathas which were very well attended. I had to sit in the street. When 2 young Iskcon Brahmacaris passed staring at me, I offered Pranams to them, and they thought I was begging! They were so confused.

All these Pathas are in Bengali, and they all sound very sweet, but I can't understand a word. Devotees seem to form an attraction to one or another devotee's Patha and it is very subjective. Others perhaps just try to attend as many as possible to get lots of benefit. The audience is ladies and men, rich and poor, scholar and simple. I saw a couple of members of the audience wearing saffron, from Gaudiya Math or Iskcon Bengalis. The quality of the Patha is apparently so high that it attracts devotees across the 'tabu' barrier.

All classes begin with a special Gauranga Kirtan and end with a Radha-Krishna Kirtan, the ones in the audio section. Apart from Panditas giving Patha, there are also Kirtaniyas, Babas who are renowned for their Kirtan. Especially Tribhanga Das, who sings from about 2am till dawn every morning during festivals. His voice has a beautiful rasping quality and is broadcast all over te Kunda. The first time I heard it I thought I was in heaven. But the most famous Kirtaniya is Sakhi-charan Das Baba, who is also regarded as a great Guru. There are younger Babas who perform great kirtans and are 'up and coming'.

Yet I mostly only saw people offering dandabat to Panditji. I also only offered to him and my Gurudev. When I see VPD I make Pranam and he smiles a greeting. It is all very friendly and spontaneous, more or less.

I should mention that there is an old Gaudiya Math next to the Parikrama Marg just before the Kunda. They are followers of Bhakti Vilas Tirtha Maharaj, the sannyasis there are very humble and saintly, they give shelter to pilgrims, even mothers with children, and they have an extensive program of Patha and Kirtan, which is all very dignified and attractive. And yes, when I passed there and saw the sannyasis I offered my Pranam.

That's just Radhakunda. Vrindavan is a very large area, with lakhs or crores of devotees, hundreds of Mahatmas. In the Gosvami temples like Radha-ramana, the Gosvami Mahants are usually very highly regarded. And there are thousands of temples, dozens of sampradayas with their acharyas, all respected. Some more deserving than others of course.
adiyen - Sat, 01 Nov 2003 05:04:10 +0530
QUOTE(gauraprema @ Oct 27 2003, 01:18 AM)
DEar devotees,

RAdhe Radhe!

I'm not really a frequent poster, and I'm sorry if this question sounds a little inane, but...

I was just wondering, in ISKCON and GM, it is taught that upon seeing a sannyasi, it is proper to offer obeisances immediately, no matter where you are. Is this the same practice in Vraja and RAdha Kunda with the Babaji Maharajas, where if you are so fortunate as to see them, you also offer immediate obeisances?

Also, usually when offering obeisances, one chants the pranam mantra of the Guru (in ISKCON and GM), what is the practice with those of the traditional parivars? Would anyone care to shed some light on these questions?

Thanks for your time!

Jai RAdhe!

Sudevi dasi biggrin.gif

Dear Sudevi Didi,
To answer your question, please have a look at this picture from Yugal Kishora's website:


http://www.radhakund.com/18.10.03/DSC01885.JPG

See the 'Announcements' Forum for the link to the rest of the pictures, which give a very good idea of daily life around Radhakunda.
gauraprema - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:48:10 +0530
Jai Radhe!

Thank you very much for all illustrious posts, it was a pleasure to read, and I have definitely gained a better idea of what's 'appropriate'.

Thank you all devotees who have posted and shared their realisations and observations. I think more topics of this nature should be encouraged as I am sure there are devotees out there who are naturally curious as to the nature and lifestyle of the traditional Gaudiya parivars vis a vis ISKCON and GM.

Looking forward to more observations and realisations! biggrin.gif

Jay RAdhe!

YS
Sudevi dasi