Initiation given cheaply? -

Dear Vaishnavas!

a very good friend of mine told me recently , that he knows a devotee from Switzerland very well.
this devotee got all initiations from Srila Ananta das Babaji, although he is a heroine drug-addict.

please don´t take me wrong, no challenge here.
is this a fact?

unfortunately i don´t know the spiritual name of that person, but i can hardly believe this.

had it happened?
does someone know?

thanks
Tiny

I do not know, but people say this about everyone, not just Radhakunda devotees. Many say that Gaudiya Math acharyas give easy 'initiation' (harinam or diksha?) to drug addicts too. It is an old story. 'they give initiation so cheap' has been said about many. It sounds deprecating.

I know there are some who take diksha cheaply, from Baba too, they take even though they are not serious about sadhana. Baba is not at fault for being generous, nor is any Vaishnava who gives in a magnanimous spirit!

The fact is that the only way to be reasonably sure that a new devotee has good habits is to have a full time supervised ashram where they are watched 24/7.

Even so, when I was fulltime Iskcon 20 years ago, we had to call the ambulance when an initiated brahmacary fell out of the shower, needle in arm, blood everywhere, eyes rolled up in a deep heroin overdose. It was horrible, he went into catatonic fit just like a ghost, yet he survived. I had never seen this before, having had sheltered life. This was in strict Iskcon temple, so what guarantees are there?

I heard in Radhakunda that a Brijbasi Panda there became a heroin addict, which drove his wife to suicide. It is a problem everywhere.

Now in the west we treat drug addicts as victims of disease. Should someone be excluded from sadhana because they have a problem? Sadhana is the medicine for all ills.

We are all trying to overcome the material 'addiction' described by Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita.

Remember, Raganuga is a sadhana not a perfected state. Many guests here do not understand this, but according to our acharyas, headed by Sri Rupa, raganuga-bhakti-sadhana is the medicine for the ills of lust and material desire.

What do you think?

Yes, Radha is the supreme heroine. One who is addicted to Her is indeed a greatly advanced soul. :)

Heroin, however, is a more troubling matter. I cannot speak for the orthodox parivaras, but I know that the Bhaktivedanta-parivar has initiated disciples who used LSD, marijuana and cocaine at the time of their initiations, and their spiritual lives have been troubled from the start. I knew one devotee who became a morphine addict as a result of treatment for the severe pain of an illness, and even though it was a medical rather than a recreational intoxication, it greatly disrupted his ability to perform sadhana.

Even so, before we condemn devotees who slip in their adherence to the "four" regulative principles, I believe it is important, in the spirit of trinad api sunicena, to remember that the "four" regulative principles are a formulation specially intended for Westernized people involved in one particular religious movement.

Many (most?) of the devotees who condemn others for "falling down" from the "four" regulative principles are themselves falling down from the "fifth" regulative principle, and should be more concerned about putting their own spiritual lives in order, rather than putting others down.

Remember, Pariksit Maharaja cursed Kali to live in FIVE places -- not just four. Commonly in the West, we know that Kali resides in brothels, liquor shops, slaughterhouses and gambling casinos (corresponding to the prohibitions of illicit sex, intoxication, meat eating, and gambling). But we often forget about the FIFTH place. Kali also resides wherever gold is stored. As a result, giving up the desire to amass wealth can be taken as a fifth "regulative principle" alongside the other four.

Under the banner of yukta-vairagya, so many abuses can take place. How many televisions do you own? How many clothes? How much have you spent on your computer and its peripherals? You may believe that you are "dovetailing" your wealth in your sadhana. But by doing so, you may be "rationalizing away" one of the regulative principles -- just like someone else may rationalize away his "intoxication" as something medically or socially necessary, and another may rationalize away his "stock market investments" as "acceptable business" rather than "gambling." If you believe that you can advance spiritually while amassing wealth, it would be hypocrisy to claim that someone else cannot advance while taking some intoxication (Pundarika Vidyanidhi, anyone?). Still, as humble Vaishnavas we should be constantly reducing our own involvements in such activities, not increasing on the pretext that "someone else is getting rich, or taking intoxication, while claiming to be a devotee, so I should be able to, as well."

Back to your original point. Perhaps one of the initiated diciples of Ananta dasa Babaji will explain the "official policy" regarding initiations. But in one sense I think it is a moot point. If a jeweler gave me a diamond-cutting tool, I could not cut fine diamonds, since I lack the skill and the training to do so. Similarly, if someone is given mantras but does not have the adhikara to use them properly, he simply will not advance. What is the harm? If a drug addict has tremendous pious credits from a former life, or is somehow sincerely devoted to guru and Gauranga in spite of material obstacles, the fruits will become clear in his life. Drugs aren't the problem -- PRETENSE is the problem. A humble heroin addict, chanting harinama while considering himself lower than the straw in the street, is a far greater devotee than a prideful celibate and teetotaling madman posing as a rasika-bhakta in order to amass wealth and honor.

Well, Ananta Das Babaji does not encourage his initiated disciples to use heroin. I mean, what else am I supposed to say?

You might say whether heroin use, or any other particular habit, practice or circumstance would cause him to choose not to give initiation to an aspiring disciple.

Harinama - I think so, diksa - I don't think so. The very purpose of giving harinama before is to purify the disciple for receiving diksa.

Radhe!

i didn´t mean to critizise Srila Ananta das Babaji.
i was just wondering.

good point with his generosity.

the best to all

bhajami radham aravinda netram!

Is Harinama-diksa not considered diksa? Or you mean brahminical initiation by diksa?

How to simplify this sometimes confusing issue?

Iskcon has 2 'initiations' right?

Well that is very nice, but it is not what other Gaudiyas practice, or what Hindus generally practice even. And 'Brahminical initiation' is very nice but is only practised amongst the young sons of Brahmin families, the male followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta in his Gaudiya Math, and again Iskcon, who are the only ones to give it to everyone as far as I know.

For everyone else, Gaudiya, Vaishnava, Shaivite etc, Diksha means when the Guru gives 'secret' mantras for personal meditation in a private ceremony, formally accepting the disciple, who in turn commits himself to the Guru.

Among most Gaudiyas (not sure about the NGRS), the Mahamantra is not regarded as a secret mantra, but to chant effectively, one should also receive it from a Sadhu, who will either teach one to chant on fingers (my Gurudev does this as a first step) or will bless Japamala for the aspirant, so that they may chant japa. But receiving Harinam thus is not as formal as Diksha, so there is not a formal commitment that one will take diksha from this guru. One may have a different Diksha guru. The act of giving someone Japamala and asking them to chant Mahamantra is Harinam: receiving the Name from a Sadhu.

Diksha- formal acceptance of Guru who gives personal mantras and vidya*.

Harinam- receiving Mahamantra from a Sadhu.

(Just to confuse you, sometimes these two seperate things are combined in one ceremony with the one Guru).

*vidya means esoteric knowledge, but also the technique of using the mantras.

There is no such thing as Harinama diksa. Harinama is considered blessing for chanting, and first step. I remember back in my Iskcon days that Sacinandana Swami made me wait 5 years just for harinama initiation. And at the end, i left him. Temple authorities were recommending me every year, but he said that Narayan Maharaja (in times of Gopi Bhava Club) told him that his aspiring disciples and initiated disciples have to run after him(Sacinandana Swami). I was complete fool, and that was not only because of Harinama initiation... At the end i took initiation in Iskcon from another Grihastha Guru, and left him too.

Brahman initiation is just in Iskcon and Gaudiya Math.
Second initiation in Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition is where person gets Krishna Diksa (dika) mantras. There is big difference between Iskcon/GM and traditional/orthodox Gaudiya (Chaitanya) Vaishnavas.Everything depends actually on Guru and Paribar.

Madhava, Adiyenji and Radhapadaji can write you more.

5 years? Well, my Baba gives Harinam in 5 minutes! If someone seems sincere and does not have Harinam, he takes them aside, gets them to count on fingers while chanting 10X Mahamantra. He calls this Harinam. Almost every day I saw him give this to people he met. Sometimes he will give kanthimala (neckbeads) at this time too.

(He also told me that I could give this counting on fingers Harinam! In India, from Baba, people receive this respectfully. Here in the West, I doubt anyone would be interested. Isn't that a curious thing?)

Later, in a formal ceremony, if he accepts, he will give Japamala along with some special mantra. He calls this Diksha, but he may not give Krishna (Gopal) mantra yet (but to some he gives everything including siddha-pranali all at that time!). At that time he made me promise: 'Before, all finished, from now, no more pap'. 'Yes, Gurudev, no more pap from now on!'. (Pap means sin and certainly includes drugs and intoxication, but most Gaudiyas do not include tea or coffee in this category).

6 weeks later, after he had observed me carefully, he agreed to give me Krishna Mantra. He told me when I return next year I will get more mantra.

It seems that my Baba actually does combine diksha with Harinam in a special way. Perhaps in the vast diversity of Gaudiyaism as it is practised such things are not always as clear cut as we would like.

Perhaps Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada got his form of initiation from the devotees his father associated with.

Ohe Brajasundara!
Tamal Baran Dasji ki jaya!

So in lineages other than GM and Iskcon people do not receive brahminical initiation, that is to say, they do not chant the gayatri-mantra? I can understand the reason behind that, in the West it is extremely rare to find someone who can maintain his "brahminical" standard for a longer time.

To be more precise, they do not chant the brahma-gayatri mantra. There are other gayatris, the most famous among them being the kama-gayatri - mantra. Brahma-gayatri is a mantra given at the same time with the upavita (sacred thread) by the father or the family priest to a brahmin boy of 12 years of age in a special ceremony.

It is not a matter of West or East, in our sampradaya we are not concerned in becoming brahmins, we see it as just another undesirable upadhi (covering attribute). Certainly many Western diksita (initiated) devotees hold standards as good as any brahmin and even higher, but they do not concern themselves with brahminhood along with all of its occupational duties and so forth; rather, they consider themselves with the worship of Radha and Krishna.

Dika? The Bengalis pronounce "kS" as "kh" (sound coming from deep in the back of the mouth), however this shouldn't go in writing.

Jay Sri Radhe!

adiyen, who is your guru?

Sorry Madhava. Thanks for correcting me.
So whenever they pronounce that word, it is like: Dikha?

It is almost same in Croatian with some words.

Yes, they pronounce it more or less as dikkha. However, it is a Sanskrit word. I do not personally see a valid reason to start pronouncing Sanskrit words in Bengali style, unless they appear amidst a Bengali sentence. The proper pronounciation would be dii-kshaa. Many Bengalis don't seem to pay much attention to the long vocals.

Sri Sri Pran Krishna Das Babaji, disciple of late Sri Sri Yadu Gopal Gosvami - the son of Sri Sri Pran Gopal Gosvamiji, whose life is described in OBL Kapoor's Saints of Bengal.

Gurudeva can be seen doing Parikrama around Govardhan and Radhakunda most days, chanting with his brass gong. He manages the seva of Sri Sri Radha Vinoda, the personal Deities of Lokanath Gosvami, and can be contacted through that Mandir on the Parikrama Marg near Shyamakunda.

Brajmohan Das.

Jay Sri Radhe!

Thanx Brajmohan Das for telling me a little about your guru.
Now, I would like to known more about guru´s of the orthodox tradition who lives at radha-kunda. Who are they? where they live (ashram)? How many give initiations to western? How many speak english?