Taking S.P. straight -

Dear Vaishnavas, Radhe Radhe !

My first day after a two weeks vacation…..

The passage below is from a letter sent by B.V Bhagavata Maharaja, a disciple of Srila Bhakti Promode P.M., to Ravindra Svarupa from I.s.
Title: "Taking Srila Prabhupada Straight" from a GM magazine.

Here, comparing the differences between S.B.S.T. and A.C.B.V’s strategies of preaching he says:

"Keeping the peacock feather on Mahaprabhu can only be seen in the temple established by Srila Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu ( Puri Das Mahasaya ) at Radha-Kunda and in prominent gouranga-nagari-sampradayas or one of the thiteen pseudo-sects. We can clealy see this in the temples established by Srila Swami Maharaja. Where has this come from ?"


Could any good soul give a careful look and explain this statement ?

By the way, thanks so much for been friendly with Bhakti Ananda Swamiji.

B)

Sri Gauranga descended to show with His own example the ideal of bhakti, acting as a role-model for the devotees. Moreover, He was overwhelmed with the mood of Radharani, though Krishna inside. The sadhaka-devotees do not wear peacock feathers on their heads, nor does Sri Radha. Why, therefore, should we place a peacock-feather on the head of Gauranga?

I lived in Iskcon from 1969 up and until the departure of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj from this world and never did see Mahaprabhu with a peacock feather. Some one other than Swami Maharaj must have introduced their mental conception to their followers.

I recall asking about this from one ISKCON Maharaj, he said that Prabhupad never said anything pro or con in this regard.

Radhe Radhe !
Thanks Madhava and Alan for the answers.

Another Q:

Did Ananta Vasudeva (Puri Das Mahasaya) left GM and took iniciation in any other Line ?

How to understand Gouranga-nagaris and their conceptions ?


Ys

He certainly left Gaudiya Math. As for his having received initiation anywhere, different people have claimed to having initiated him, but there is little evidence to prove that he ever took a new initiation again.


They are certainly Gaudiyas. However, they are not Rupanuga, as we are. Their upasana is different. We do not mix with them on account of this difference in mood.

If they are not Rupanugas, from whom do they get inspiration from ?

Mainly Narahari Sarakar and some of the other residents of Sri Khanda.

So, that mean: it is not proper to call them one of the thirteen Sahajiyas-sampradayas. Right ? They do have evidences and logic to back-up their fellings.

Well, it depends. It is not that all Gaura-nagaris are the same. Some may be all right, and some are not so all right. I hear that the genuine Gaura-nagaris are very rare these days.

Why don't you read one older thread about the topic.

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15

There may not be any hard evidence, but it is pretty much a safe assumption to make, given the direction he went in. He married and the small and exclusive group of householders he was involved with in Vrindavan were very secretive - that is why rumors sprang up about them. His publications of Goswami granthas after leaving GM are some of the finest ever printed. If only they were more easily obtainable by interested scholars in our community.

They have two sets at Radha Kund library. I am thinking I may get a chance to scan them in next time. Bless me.

That was from the link: http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15



Graceful, respectful and open mind; as usually.

But my Q. for you Madhavananadaji is : what Pandita Mahanta says about it ?

He says it is a legitimate tradition, originating from Narahari, but has nowadays become corrupt.

Jay Radha-kunda Mahanta, Jay Panditaji, Jay Goura-bhakta-vrnda !

... in my little world i repeat like a parrot :

hoiyachena hoibena prabhura jata gana
urddhva-bahu kori' ghasa (6)

Holding a straw between my teeth, I submit at the feet of all the servants of Mahaprabhu that were or will be.
Sri Vaishnava-Vandana
by Sri Devakinandana dasa Thakura

ys

Ekkehard Lorenz made Brihat Krama Sandarbha available to me in TIF, and parts of Brihad Vaishnava Toshani. The 60 or so missing chapters of that one really hurt. If you're going to scan--get it all!

Neal says he's going to do Krama Sandarbha and other things that he's getting from interlibrary loan. I wonder if he's doing it! He says he wants to eventually put these on GGM as well. I think it's a good idea, if space allows.

Following the same letter where Bhagavat Maharaja is trying to show the differences in the form of preaching between S.B.S.T. and A.C.B.S. to I.S.'s devotees, he then writes as follows:



Any comments on that please ?

ys

I have no idea about what the bauls said, or whether they had any connection with him at all, but commonly He is portrayed without a beard. There is no record of His having had a beard that I know of.

Glad to learn that we are not Bauls. Behold the beauty of beardless Advaita on top of the page www.madangopal.com

To be honest it is my first time i ever heard the name Baul. What is it ? Who are them ?
And please tell us why Advaita Acarya is in that beautiful position: right hand up and left down ; looks like He is holding a Chakra on His finger and with His other hand giving mercy towards the fallen Jivas ?

ys

Bauls are a group of Neo-Vaishnavas, founded, as far as I know, by one Lalan Fakir. They operate both in West- and East Bengal, and combine Islam with Hinduism, and bhakti [they do amazing kirtans] with tantra and yoga. They have long hair, share women, dress in saffron, smoke ganja and reject organised religion. Kind of Bengali hippies one might say. No, the lowered hand of Advaita Prabhu is the left hand, while the right hand is used for bestowing blessings, and blessing also involves raising the hand, not lowering it [I know because my Guru often raised his to bless lucky me]. The right hand raised might indeed indicate carrying the Chakra. Advaita Prabhu is, after all, Mahavishnu.

How amazing the both Lord of Nadia ( Goura-Nitai ) had reach with Their mercy so for ! Jay Nitai Jay Goura !
doyala nitai caitanya bolo naca re amara mana...

Thanks JI

ys

Following the same "letter" :




Any comment ?

What'd you expect for a comment? Brahma-gayatri is not a vital part of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, not for men, not for ladies.

Don't you think Gaudiya Math politics is a bit boring for a topic?

To be honest I'm not interested in the politic sides of anywhere. My idea of bring this "topics" here in this Web was to clear some doubts and get some deep understandings of things that could be new or misunderstood by some people. But if you feel unconfortable with that, never mind, I will stop it. Plus, you are not obliged to answer any of them. But I do respect your "comment".


Thanks.
Ys

Oh please Hari, let's not be silly.

What's the doubt you have about the passage above?

Never mind. I have to go now.

ys

Oh well.

That was a Sunday morning and I really had to go. The nearest city is about 40min driving. That is that day to do whatever we have to do before the week days starts up again.

that is my comment on the above:

I think that part of it is about my transitions. Or in other words, I think everyone goes through some kind of Psychological process before a natural acceptance of any major changes in life.
I’m realizing that this time I do not want to leave anything or anyone with a bad feelings. So, I want that this time I come out clean and renovated... It has to be just like if I’m leaving an old home to go to a new one... But it maybe has a high cost; no one has the power to understand anyone else’s inner mind and self.

I definitely realize how sensitive you maybe, specially after coming back from a Holy Dhama like Vrindavana and getting high class of association. So, forgive me if I tend to be on the surfaces of Bhakti; I do appreciate how much you care for the spiritual health of this Web space and for the entire community. But do never forget that I do not have any physical association of this type of Sat-Sanga. So, thing are little more complex if compared with someone that has that type of “ Sukrit” to be involved (as your are) with real Vaishnavas.

So please, give me a break and let me freely browse through any topic that somehow has to be properly digested, before it naturally leaves me forever.

Bisides all, if you carefully check, you will find that i always drive my questions towards the meaning of the words much more than the political side of it.

Whenever you have a chance please, do share some of your experiences at the Holy land of Vrindavana and Sadhu-sanga, so that may helps we all in terms of choosing better subjects.

ys

In this connection I might like to ask for the respected members to view this topic and give their opinions with the required evidence.

Do these Gauraanga Naagaris have any web site. I would like to hear their point of view.

Thanks!

Kishalaya

Dear Madhava, if you did not come out with that second line, this would be my very next question; in other words this would be a shorter way to go:

Well, to be honest, I think I read in one of these threads where you said something about not chanting Gayatri-mantra... but I'm not sure about that.

My point: is Gayatri an option or what ?
For GM is fundamental why not for the traditional lines ?

But reading the above quote : “One prominent disciple of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura gave the Brahma-gayatri to a lady disciple”.
So how is it, you said Gayatri is not a vital part of GV but that prominent Vaishnava ( Lalita Prasada ?) gave the Mantra to a Lady ?

Last one : Did Srila Bhaktivinoda have many disciples ?

Could you please clear that for us ?

Thank you!


ys

Jaya Radhe!

Reading this text has brought so many doubts. Please, can someone clarify this to me?



How is sung the maha-mantra in the babajis line?



How is sung the Pancha-tattva in the japa?
A disciple of Ananta Das Babaji once told me that he chant 4 rounds of Panca-Tattva mantra meditating in the Goura-lila and after he chant hare-krishna maha-mantra. This seens a bit confuse to me cause in the Gutika of Sri Sakhicharana Das Babaji Maharaja the goura-lila and radha-krishna lilas are alternate.



Is this eight-yama pastimes the same as asta-kaliya-lila?



What do you think about this? I'm not initiated and I'm chanting harinama. I feel this is benefical to me, but I would like to know the opinion of Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura and other devotees here. Someone can quote this commentary? What's the opinion of Ananta Das Babaji?

sadhaka108

Traditionally brahma-gayatri is given for boys who are born in brahmin families around the age of 12 years. It was the innovation of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati to make a fusion of this upavita samskara and Vaishnava mantra-diksa.

You could read for example this thread and additionally do a search on "upavita", "upanayanam" etc. in the forums here.



Well, that's a mystery to me.



I am under the impression that he had quite a few, given that he was a dedicated preacher. I wonder where they are now though, and the disciplic lines descending through them. Jagat would probably know much more about this.

Unfortunaly the Gouranga Nagaris and the other so-called sahajiya babajis doesn't have websites to us known their point of view. I would like to known it too. Why not?

sadhaka108 - the devil's lawyer

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare |
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare ||

Together, not Gaudiya Math style but like they do in ISKCON.



That's exactly what we do. This may vary from lineage to lineage though.

How is that confusing? Certainly if you suddenly feel inspired to chant the panca-tattva mantra amidst your harinama-japa, feel free to do it. Follow the flow of your desires. tatrArpita niyamita smarane na kAlaH.



Yes.



Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaj says it is no problem, you may chant if you wish.

As far as the tika of Visvanatha Cakravartipad, BV Bhagavat misquotes him. The tika (on Bhag. 6.2.9-10) reads as follows:

harir bhajanIya eva bhajanaM tat prApakam eva tad upadeSTA gurur eva gurUpadiSTA bhaktA eva pUrve hariM prApur iti viveka vizeSavattve'pi no dIkSAM na ca sat kriyAM na ca purazcaryAM manAg IkSate. mantro'yaM rasanA spRg eva phalati zrI kRSNanAmAtmakaH. iti pramANa dRSTyA ajAmilAdi dRSTAntena ca kiM me gurukaraNa zrameNa nAma kIrtanAdibhir eva me bhagavat prAptir bhAvinIti manyamAnas tu gurvavajJa lakSaNa mahAparAdhAd eva bhagavantaM na prApnoti kintu tasminn eva janmani janmAntare vA tad aparAdha kSaye sati zrI guru caraNAzrita eva prApnotIti

“Some know that the Lord is worshipable and He is only attained by bhajana. For such devotion the guru is the instructor and, in the past, only the devotees following the instructions of the guru have attained the Lord. Still if they do not feel any necessity of accepting a guru and think: ‘It is said that any mantra with Krishna's holy name will grant perfection on the mere touch of the tongue, even without diksa or purascarana - and what about Ajamila? I can attain the Lord simply by nama-sankirtana!’, then they commit the great offence of disrespecting the guru. Such persons can not attain the Lord. When this offense is nullified, either in this birth or the next, and if they take the shelter of the feet of a bona fide guru, then they can attain the Lord.”

As you may note, BV Bhagavat completely misquotes the commentary. Again, tatrArpita niyamita smarane na kAlaH!

I don't think so. I don't think there is but one Western devotee affiliated with the Gaura Nagari tradition, namely Gadadhara Prana from Navadvip.

Haven't seen many babas doing bhajan on broadband lately.

Learn the language and go around the forests. That is, if you really want to find out every single opinion out there. That may take a couple of lifetimes. Perhaps rather just find something you're satisfied with. The journey of comparison is endless.

Jaya Radhe!



well, I must confess that I'm not satisfied. I see a lot of lies being told using the terms sahajiya, mayavada or apasampradaya. Now I really want to known what this terms true mean and tell it to others. I believe that everyone has the right to check for the truth and for some this may take a couple of lifetimes. I hope this don't happen with me, but for while I'm still checking

Thanks .