Who is the Original Supreme Personality of Godhead - Krsna or Lord Narayana?

I have been discussing with satsangis of the Swaminarayan Sampradaya at http://swaminarayanonline.com/phpBB2
and have said that Krsna is Bhagavan, but they keep saying Lord Swaminarayan who appeared a couple of years ago is Bhagavan.

I think the problem is that Lord Swaminarayan was initiated in the Ramanuja Sampradaya which believes that Lord Narayana is Avatari and Krsna is avatar. The Brahma Sampradaya believes that Krsna is Avatari and Lord Narayana is avatar. Which is correct?

If you look at the above link, I have provided evidence that Krsna is under the threads started by me under the name "satya", but they still say it's not true.

Should I stop trying to share my views? Is it like asking what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Also, If I have said anything contradictory or offesive to Krsna in my posts, I apologize...I'm just a neophyte.

-Satya

correction: In my above post Lord Swaminarayana appeared a couple hundred years ago (1781).

Sorry,
Satya

My opinion is that Lord Swaminarayan is a mortal human being in a material body. An apasampradaya which Guru is worshipped as God. But the satsangis say he had 16 celestial signs on his feet to prove he was Bhagavan. I'm confused.

Here's an email I got from Swaminarayan follower:

I don't know the exact process that God goes through
to attain an avtar form but I'll look it up. Maharaj's
descension to earth is predicted in many scriptures.
Skand Puran is one. I'll try to find out some other
sources as well. God can't lack anything yes, but he
can limit himself. Did Vaman show his Vishvaroop? No.
God held himself back in that one. God limits himself
to the powers he needs on a certain task. There are
other reasons too, why God limits himself. Why is
Vasudev Krishna not avtari for all universes instead
of this one? Because Lord Adi Narayan already
manifested himself as Vasudev Krishna and is acting as
avtari there. So why should one manifestation worry
about the job he is doing in another manifestation? he
shouldn't. But the entity Paramaatma is present in all
of God's forms. If you ask Lord LaxshmiNarayan for a
boon and Lord NarNarayan gives it to you, its because
it's the same God. But he does different things and
peforms different tasks in different forms. This is
all elementary regarding our religion so this
shouldn't be much trouble for you. And don't
differentiate between Lord Purushottam and maharaj.
Think of it as Lord Purushottam leaving Param Dham and
coming himself without any process involved; unlike
his avtars which he undergoes a process. So, Lord
Purushottam came without any limitations. You might've
read that Lord Purushottam possess 16 signs on his
feet. Those 16 signs prove that he is God. Well,
Markandey Muni noticed these 16 celestial sings on the
feet of Bal Ghanshya. I think the same happened with
Krishna's birth. So there should be no doubt in your
mind that Maharaj IS God. Just as the turtle avtar
limited himself to just holding a mountain on his
back, the same way, all forms have limitations.
Because God knows that he has a form for each task.
But in the end, it is Lord Purushottamwho is the one
who assumes these forms; avtari. The original
personaily of Godhead. When Krishna said he pervades
this entire one universe, he was speaking as Vishnu
who has limitations to this one universe. When he said
everything rests upon him as pearls strung on a
thread, he was exhibiting his higher nature as Lord
Purushottam of Param Dham. Here's how I interpret what
Krishna said:

"Look, in this form, I am the prime controller of this
entire universe. My human form is mind boggling and
fools the less intelligent like Duryodhan. These kind
of people don't know of my higher nature. This body I
have right now is material. In Param Dham, I pervade
all. In Golok, Vaikunth, Svetdeep, and Badrikashram, I
maintain this one universe. I limit myself to avtari
in this universe only because I am already avtari as
Vasudev Krishna for another universe. I manifest
different forms for different tasks. But they all
emanate from me in the end. If you seek final
redemption, understand my higher nature as avtari in
Param Dham and know that all avtars emanate from me in
Param Dham."

I know it's kinda hokey speaking for God like that but
I sure hope it helps you understand things more.

-Satya

Another email from the Swaminarayan devotee:

First and foremost, I would like to declare that all
Hari bhaktos are vaishnavs. So we as Swaminarayan
satsangis are vaishnavs. You say that we have trouble
providing proof? Well you guys are hellbent on proof.
When the time comes face to face, proof will be
provided. All the discussion that goes on in the forum
is about one thing: Parbrahm Purushottam. You seem to
distinguish between avtars and God a lot. THey are the
same thing but God limits himself in avtars. Your
misconception is that Krishna is avtari. Well I told
you, ask anyone if Krishna was an avtar and they will
say yes. If it's an ISKCON fanatic they will say yes
and they wil also say that he is the original
personality of godhead.

Can we work off a basis of trust while in the forum?
When we are at camp, I promise you that scriptorial
proof will be given to you. I'll bring my Gita and
Shikshapatri. You can bring your Bhagvatam and
printouts of whatever. But we need to trust each other
as hari bhaktos.

There is a time and place for scriptorial proof.
Prabupad never gave Bhagvatam quotes over the phone
did he? no, he gave it face to face.

All satsangis that give you proof will be genuine
because we learned it from Maharaj and the santos at
our mandirs and the santos and Maharaj have
extensively studied the shastras. But I promise to
give you proof at camp. Please do try to come.

In the meantime, what is your understanding of Akshar?

I have just one simple request at this point in the discussion. Can you please provide some more information about the above mentioned sect? Can you describe their type of temple worship, what mantras they chant, what holy tirthas they frequent, what their teachings are on rasa? The concept of avataras is just one small piece to the puzzle. To make some realistic comparison between two different Vaishnava traditions, it is necessary to get all the pertinent facts first.

Thanking you in advance...

Here is some information from their website:

When Almighty God manifested Himself as Shree Krishna, He said that He will manifest again, whenever there was deterioration in faith, religion and morality; with a view to protecting the saintly people, while destroying the sinners and re-establishing dharma. Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan embodied Himself in this mortal world, as prophesied in the Purans, in such circumstances.

Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan manifested Himself as a son to the brahmin couple Hariprasad Pande (Dharma Dev) & his wife Premvati (Bhakti Devi) at the village of Chhapaiya, near Ayodhya (UP) on Ram Navmi day of Vikram Samvat 1837 (2nd April 1781). At birth He was called Ghanshyam. At the tender age of 11, His parents having ascended to Akshar Dham, Ghanshyam left home to set out on a 7-year long pilgrimage and tapascharya. At Loj village, Gujarat He met the disciple-sadhus of Ramanand Swami (Uddhav-Incarnate). Ramanand Swami administered Maha Bhagwati Diksha named Him Sahajanand Swami and Narayan Muni. A year later, Ramanand Swami passed the Sampraday’s leadership to Sahajanand Swami.

Having explained the greatness of the mahamantra SWAMINARAYAN, Sahajanand Swami became known as Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan. Many a lay-satsangi was transported into a meditative trance by reciting this mantra. He initiated some of the most prominent sadhus in the Sampraday; many of whom were scholars of the highest calibre. Under the supervision of some of these sadhus, He got built magnificent temples, wherein images of various manifestations were installed by HIS hand. The first ever Swaminarayan Temple was constructed in the Kalupur area of Ahmedabad, where the land was gifted by the then Collector, Sir John Dunlop. Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan installed NarNarayan Dev, the worshipful deities of Bharatkhand, as described in the Bhagwat Puran.

Many a terrorist and others absorbed in the ills of life were touched by His generosity and left their wicked ways to become devotees of Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan. The knife, sword and arrow were replaced by Mala (rosary beads), Kantthi (two-fold necklace) and Tilak-Chandlo. The prime spiritual object was to Devote oneself to a favoured deity, with due observance of Dharma and understanding of Vairaagya, grasped through Gyan from the Shastras (scriptures). Respect for all deities in the Sanatan Dharma is of paramount importance. So much so that all His followers are instructed to worship; Vishnu, Shiva, Ganpati, Parvati & SuryaNarayan as a matter of course.

During His 7-years pilgrimage Swaminarayan Bhagwan carried with Him a small booklet of excerpts from the principal scriptures of Sanatan Dharma. These were refined and bound in the Shikshapatri, considered the essence of the Sanatan Shastras. It comprises 212 shlokas written by HIS own hand. During His 21 years at the helm of the Sampraday, Swaminarayan Bhagwan gave innumerate discourses on a variety of subjects at Gadhada, Sarangpur, Kariyani, Loya, Panchala, Vadtal, Ahmedabad, Aslali, Jetalpur and many more places. Five of His sadhus researched them into the present day compilation of 273 discourses called Vachanamrit.

Bhagwan Shree Swaminarayan considered the question of His succession and after consulting the elder sadhus and grihasthas in the Sampraday, He established the dual Acharyaship. He adopted His nephews Ayodhyaprasadji & Raghuvirji and installed them as the inaugural Acharyas of the NarNarayan Dev Gadi (Ahmedabad) & LaxmiNarayan Dev Gadi (Vadtal), respectively.

Through His Holiness Acharya Maharajshri 1008 Shree Tejendraprasadji Pande’s untiring personal efforts, the Sampraday spans the globe. Within India, His Holiness has established in excess of 500 temples of all sizes, installing deities in them, initiated more than 600 sadhus and incalculable satsangis. Outside India, His Holiness has established the network of ISSO temples & chapters, in addition to other temples established by him through sadhus of the Sampraday. His Holiness Lalji Maharajshri 108 Shree Koshalendraprasadji Pande (Acharya-Designate) has taken on a personal responsibility to take the Sampraday to the modern-day youth, through numerous religious camps & literature translated into English, both in India and abroad.

http://www.swaminarayan-online.org


The above Sampradaya is the original one established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself. There have been several breakaway cults like BAPS. They are the most prominent one in North America. Also, almost ALL of Swaminarayan's followers are Gujarati Indians.

Here is one of their scriptures written by Lord Swaminarayan, who they think is Bhagavan...the source of Krsna: http://www.swaminarayan-online.org/html/sh...patri/index.htm


Here is the primary discussion thread I have beening posting in: http://swaminarayanonline.com/phpBB2/viewt...wtopic.php?t=43

You don't have to read all of it, because it is lengthy. And I apologize if I am not representing Gaudiya Vaisnavism correclty, I'm 16...a neophyte...and have a lot to learn.

The reason I would like to know is that some of my family members are Swaminarayan followers and would like to know more about them.


I apologize if this is the wrong forum to discuss this subject matter.

-Satya

Taking into consideration the above points of Swaminarayana's followers, I will attempt to answer.

Having enumerated the various limb or consistuent parts (anga) of the Paramatman,the Bhagavata-verses(1.3.6-25) conclude by a half-verse which,in the opinion of Jiva Gosvamin in his 'Srikrsna-sandarbha',distinctly lays down the general character of the Avataras,and emphatically distinguishes and determines Krsna as the supreme Bhagavat himself.As the rest of the topic is concerned with the establishment of this important theme,it is necessary to quote the half-verse here and summarise Jiva Gosvamin's explanation of the same in the light of the theological views of Gaudiya school.The verse (1.3.28) concludes the list of Avataras with the statement:

[The second half of the verse is not relevant to the discussion as it refers to the Avataras of the Purusa and not to Krsna]

ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnah tu bhagavan svayam

''These are the Amsas and Kalas of the Purusa,but Krsna is the Bhagavat himself.''

As this assertion stands at the end of the list of Avataras,it implies,according to Jiva Gosvamin,that the appearances mentioned in the list are the various Amsa-or Kala-Avataras of the Purusa,but Krsna (in company with Balarama),who is enumerated as the twentieth in the list,is the Bhagavat himself,who is not an Avatara,but the Avatarin or the very source of the Avataras themselves as the substratum of the Paramatman-Purusa.

In accordance with the rule of interpretation that the predicate must not be uttered without a mention of the subject(anuvadyam anuktvaiva na vidheyam udirayet),Krsna who is already known as the twentieth in the list (1.3.23)is the Anuvadya or the already known subject,and the Bhagavat is Vidheya or the predicate,mentioned here (1.3.28) for the first time with reference to Krsna.It is clear,therefore,that 'being the Bhagavat' (BhagavattA) is predicated of Krsna and not' being Krsna' (Krsnatva) of the Bhagavat.(krsnasyaiva bhagavatta-laksano dharmah sadhyate, na tu bhagavatah krsnatvam)
In other words,the phrase means that Krsna is the Bhagavat and not that the Bhagavat manifested himself as Krsna.(krsnasyaiva mulavataratvam sidhyati,na tu pradurbhutatvam)If the meaning proposed were not meant,then the phrase would have been :bhagavams tu krsnah svayam,instead of krsnas tu bhagavan svayam.The word svayam also indicates that Krsna is not a mere manifestation of the Bhagavat,and excludes the possibility of the BhagavattA being falsely imposed (adhyasa) upon Krsna.

By the way,the Svarupa of Krsna,which is dealt with the first part of the ''Samksepa-bhagavatamrta'' by Rupa Gosvamin,is defined and classified into three aspects:
1)Svayam-rupa,which is not dependent on anything else (ananyapeksi),that is,self-existent(svatah-siddha).
2)Tadekatma-rupa,or hypostatic manifestation which is identical in essence and existence with the Svayam-rupa,but seems different by its appearance(Akrti),attribute(Vaibhava),etc.This manifestation may be either(a)Vilasa,which is equal power with the Svayam-rupa(prayenatma-samam soktya),e.g.Narayana who is a Vilasa of the highest Vasudeva and (b)Svamsa,which is inferior in power(nyuna-sakti),e.g.Sankarsana or the Matsya.
3)Avesa,which consists of appearance in the 'possessed' forms of inspired men and prophets,into whom the deity enters through Sakti,Jnana,Bhakti etc.Sesa is cited as an example of Sakti-avesa,Sanaka of Jnana-avesa and Narada of Bhakti-avesa.

Usually the Svamsa and Avesa forms apear as Avataras,the Svayam-rupa appearing only once in the Dvapara Age as Krsna.These appear-as if in a new form(apurva iva),either as by themeselves(svayam-e.g. in its self-manifestation as Tadekatma-rupa) or through some other means (dvarantarena,e.g. through a Bhakta like Vasudeva).Rupa Gosvamin in his commentary explains that the phrase ''as in a new form'' implies that the deity exists at the same time in his essential eternal form.The raison d'etre of an Avatara is visva-karya or work of the world.The Avatara is thus a partial descent or appearance of the supreme deity in the world with the object of performing some action in the world,either through or without the medium of a phenomenal being.The term visva-karya is not explained by Rupa Gosvamin,but Baladeva Vidyabhusana explains it as signifying cosmic action or action done in the world(visva-rupam visvasmin va yat karyam),which consists of (1)disturbance of the equilibrium of Prakrti,followed by the evolution of Mahat etc(prakrti-ksobha-mahadadyutpadanam)
(2)increasing the delight of the gods and other beings by suppressing the wicked(dusta-vimardanena devadinam sukha vivardhanam) and(3)propagating the bliss of divine love among the expectant devotees and spreading pure Bhakti(samutkanthitanam sadhakanam premananda-vistaranam visuddha-bhakti-pracaranam ca).

The Avataras may appear in various forms,but they are classified generally into three groups.
(a)Purusa-Avataras,(b)Gunavataras,©Lilavataras.In each Kalpa these Avataras become fourfold in accordance with the condition of Avesa,Prabhava,Vaibhava and Paratva.

...etc,etc...

(By the way,according to ''Sat-kriya sara-dipika'',the devotee of Krsna should carefully avoid the worship of the five Smarta deities (pancopasana) namely,Ganesa,Siva,Durga,Surya and Visnu,the nine planets,the Lokapalas and the sixteen Matrkas).

with respect,

Maya naga and Kali naga will be transported to Naraka-loka withint the next hours!

This is a success story for all regular participants in all known Vaishnava forums - e.g Istagosthi.org, Raganuga.com, isvara.org etc. as those regular particpants except myself are Maya naga and Kali naga, the two weakest idiots, rebells!

I wish both of you a terrific journey at Naraka-loka! :-)

Any contact with me is desiderable but impossible from there! :-)

Frodo

Thanks for the references, Jiva.

I have just one small comment on this subject. There are standup Vaishnavas of impeccable quality, such as the Sri Sampradaya, who have an approach that overlaps the Gaudiya tradition in certain areas, and departs from it in others. For example you will find nava-graha mUrtis being worshipped at Vishnu temples run by Sri Vaishnavas. Even many a Gaudiya Vaishnava in Bengal will take part in Durga Puja and will take darzana at Siva temples on occasion. That does not necessarily mean that they are Saivites masquerading as Vaishnavas.

The spirit of our discussions with members of other Vaishnava sects should be one of exchanging ideas and not one of judging and condemning them for whatever differences we see. Without maintaining a respectful level of decorum, talks run the danger of degenerating into aparAdha in the extreme.

Our brothers and sisters in the Gujarati traditions have been some of the most loyal supporters of Caitanyaism over the years, even if their traditions have different points of view. We should respond in kind, otherwise we would be rude and ungrateful.

That being said, I am still interested in learning more about the Swami Narayan sect's teachings on rasa.

Jiva,

Thank you for the beautiful and eloquent explanation. When I quoted SB 1.3.28 in one of my posts all I could comment was that Krsna has incarnations, but is also the Original Personality of Godhead. I'm just a parrot and a fool.


Ananga,

Yes, you are 100% absolutely correct. My intention of entering into discussions with the Swaminarayan devotee was to prove that Lord Swaminarayan was not Bhagavan. I assumed the role of an agressor and him as a defender. And that was the wrong thing to do.


Frodo,

What more can I say? haha.

-Satya

In principle I agree with you Ananga,but according 'Sat-kriya sara-dipika' devotee of Krsna should ,in their stead,worship the five Mahabhagavatas( namely Visvaksena,Sanaka and others),the nine Yogindras (namely Kavi,Hhavi,Antariksa etc),the best bhagavatas(namely Brahma,Sukadeva,Sadasiva,Garuda,Narada and others) and the Vaisnavis (namely Paurnamasi,Laksmi, Antaranga,Ganga and others).

Anyway,please excuse any offense in my mood.

with respect,

Gouranga Mahapraphu is Svayam rupa?

Kishalaya

Complex issue.

There are many passages in which Krsnadasa speaks of Caitanya as an Avatara,yet he expresses his belief that 'sri caitanya prabhu svayam bhagavan',thus employing to the case of Caitanya the technical theological expression svayam bhagavan which had been applied to Krsna alone.He spares no pains to demonstrate,with a wealth of theological text and arguments, Caitanya's essential identity with Krsna,laying down emphatically that there is no other greater Tattva in the world than Caitanya who is Krsna(na caitanyat krsnaj jagati para-tattvam param iha).

Jiva Gosvamin appears to believe that Caitanya in the Kali Age is an Avatara worthy of worship by the Vaisnava,that he is the presiding deity of his own sampradaya,that by his descent he spread the current of loving devotion for the Bhagavat,and that his Bhagavad-bhava has been well established by the insight of endless believers in the Bhagavat.This is high praise indeed,but in my opinion,it is not clear if Jiva Gosvamin attempts here at all to establish that Caitanya himself is the Bhagavat,as he has in his ''Srikrsna-sandarbha'' taken pains to establish that Krsna himself is the Bhagavat.

I will try to give a detailed explanation of this at a further time.

with respect,

The world has changed drastically in the past five hundred years. What were once little pockets of Vaishnavas dispersed throughout the Indian sub continent and parts of Southeast Asia are now part of an international community that is linked by efficient means of travel like jets, trains and cars and more importantly the internet. Also, you now have so many Western followers of diverse sampradayas. Now that our community is more of a melting pot of diversity, there is this marvelous opportunity for dialogue between groups that were heretofore relatively isolated from one another. We should take advantage of that in any way we can.

Isolationism may have certain benefits like preserving purity of siddhAnta, but it can have negative repercussions as well, such as religious bigotry. We need to be more like swans and less like crows.

Happy Gaura-purnima to everyone!

Jiva,

Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself, therefore Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin of all His vishnu-tattva aspects-/avataras.

It is alone due to His mercy that very soon the evil will be destroyed in this universe!

Today is Lord Gauranga's appearence day and who knows what kind of wonders could happen today?

Regards,
Frodo

Is this concept correct?

Krishna and Purushottam Narayan are the same. Purushottam is the incarnator, and Krishna is the incarnation.

ALL SHASTRAS PROCLAIM KRISHNA AS AN INCARNATION OF VISHNU. AND VISHNU IS A MANIFESTED FORM OF LORD PURUSHOTTAM NARAYAN.

My Swaminarayan friend proclaims this as the Truth. I beg to differ.

Ananga,

After reading your last reply, I have realized that I am a crow. I will drop this issue.

-Satya

The motiveless attribute of divine bliss is the raison d'etre of Caitanya-lila as it is of Krsna-lila but while in the latter case the supreme deity enjoys the bliss as the subject(Asraya) in the former case the bliss is enjoyed both as the subject (Asraya) and the object(Visaya).In other words,Krsna the Saktimat in hisVrndavana-lila enjoys the bliss as rising from his association with his Sakti,Radha,but he does not enjoy the bliss,which Radha realizes,as inherent in himself.In the Caitanya-lila,therefore he combines the roles of Krsna and Radha,who have separate existences in spite of essential identity in the supreme but hitherto unattained divine unity of the subject and the object of bliss.The display of the blissul divine attribute (Hladini Sakti),therefore,is supposed to receive a further development in Caitanya than in Krsna.The difference is merely a difference particular lila,resulting in Caitanya's adoption of the complexion and feelings of Radha,as well as those of Krsna,for a greater realization of the blisfull attribute,but it does not affect Caitanya's intrinsic divine selfhood as Krsna.The doctrine of the acintyabhedabheda applies also here between the Krsna-concept and the Caitanya-concept;for there is identity so far as the intrinsic divine nature is concerned but there is a difference in the character of the divine sport.

with respect,

Rupa Gosvamin maintains that Krsna is not an Avatara but the deity himself ,who is greater even than Vasudeva;for Vasudeva is merely an aspect of the Purusa-Avatara for creative purposes.Every other form or manifestation as declared by the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.28.) is Amsa and Kala,but Krsna is the Supreme Bhagavat himself.This position is supported by a series of Purana texts,which establish that inasmuch as there is an excess of qualities,especially of the quality of Madhurya,Krsna is superior in turns to Brahman,Purusa,Narayana,and consequently to all other deities,Vyuhas and Avataras.In this connexion the ''Gopala-tapani Upanisad'' is cited as one of the greatest authorities.

[In his ''Samksepa-Bhagavatamrta'' Rupa Gosvamin attempts to remove the errorneous view that Krsna is Vasudeva,the first of the four Vyuhas.As you know the four Vyuhas are Vasudeva,Sankarasana,Prayumna and Anirudha.In some Satvata Tantra,we are told,there is an enumeration of nine Vyuhas(also refered to in ''Srikrsna-sandarbha''-sattvatam vasudeva-samkarsana-pradyumanirudha-narayana-hayagriva-varaha-nrsimha-brahmana iti ya nava murtayah) viz,Narayana(!),Nrsimha,Hayagriva,Mahavaraha and Brahma,in addition to the four mentioned above.]

with respect,

I found this quote on their site

"108. This Isha is Lord Shri Krishna, is Supreme Brahman, is Bhagwan and is the source of all incarnations"

Need we say more ? :-)

Found an original script

http://www.shikshapatri.org.uk/ms-imgs/083_v.htm

see what it says

My impression is that certain Gujarati Vaishnava sampradayas focus on vAtsalya-rasa. The chota-Gopal deity is very popular over there.

Anyone have any further information on this?

The Gujarati bhakti movement was centered on a renovated concept of Krsna-Visnu as a personal deity who could be easily approached by simple love and devotion.The Krsna stories were very popular in Gujarat,aspecially because the city of Dvaraka was his seat.

Mirabai and Narasingha Mehta ,the two greatest exponents of the bhakti movement of Gujarat,appear to have been influenced by the Vrndavana school of founded under the inspiration of Caitanya.It is to be remembered that Caitanya himself visited Gujarat and it is not improbable that he had some followers there with whom Narasingha Mehta come in touch.His poems on the love of Krsna and the gopis recall the Caitanyite approach to the Divine.

Also,one devotee of Vrndavana,Gunjamali,is mentioned in the 'Bhaktamala'.In the Bengali version of the book,there is a reference to one Punjabi devotee-Krsnadas Gunjamali.According to the latter version,Caitanya himself garlanded Krsnadasa with a necklace of beads of gunja.He met Caitanya in Vrndavana.Later,he went over to Gujarat and installed an image of Caitanya overe there.The establishment dedicated to Caitanya,which is in Gujarat is known as 'Bara Gouriya'.Cakrapani of the Advaita line founded another such centre at another place.This come to be known as 'Chota Goriya'.

For more on Gujarati bhakti movements see: ''Medieval Bhakti Movements in India-Sri Caitanya Quincentenary Commemoration Volume'',edited by N.N.Bhatacharyya.

with respect,

What about bhakti texts in the Gujarati language? We already know of those in Sanskrit, Bengali, Hindi and Tamil.

Any English translations available?

Jiva,

Thank you for posting this.It is really interesting.