Famous Lie from ISKCON -

I was wondering if anyone else is or was offendend by a famous ISKCON line. They claim that the Holy Name is being
chanted in every town and village in the world, the prophecy spoke by Chaitanya. This is more proof of their brainwashed minds. There is a large sign in front of the IKSCON VRindavan temple with Chaitanya's quote!

First of all, there is possibly a 3rd world war looming up ahead. Second of all there are uncountable atrocities occuring
right now in the world. This is not a spiritual world we live in ISKCON! Next, it is obvious that the holy name is definitely not being chanted in every town and village in the world! I can point to almost any city in th Middle East as my proof.

I find this prophecy, supposedly brought true by Prabhupada according to ISKCON to be very offensive. I was anyone was wondering if anyone thinks ISKCON should stop propagating this nonsense?

It is true that ISKCON has gone to many many villages. Myself, back during the times when I was a brahmacari in the ashram, I would go to hundreds of small villages all over the backwoods of Finland to contact people and share something about Krishna with them. Of course it is another matter whether people in all those villages have taken up the chanting of the holy names. I believe this is the gist of the prophecy, that people in all those villages will actually take up Krishna-bhakti.

People tend to aggrandize the achievements of their own group. It is natural, though of course it is not in good taste, particularly so when others are undermined at the same time. Many people simply do not know much of the Gaudiya tradition outside their own group. Let those who have no desire for actual raganuga bhajan engage in doing whatever they wish for the cause of Sri Caitanya, for by such deeds they will gradually attract the kripa of Gaura and come to understand the gift He bestows in the association of devotees absorbed in yugal bhajan.

In Caitanya Caritamrta there is an example of chanting the name unknowingly i.e. 'Ha Ram'. I know here in Slovenia in the Slovene language a often spoken word here is 'rada' meaning 'like'. People here are unknowingly chanting Radha's name. It is abhasa chanting. Perhaps it is not the chanting of every town and village that we have in mind, but it is the name of God. I also know of a printing firm here called, 'Hari'. Again it is abhasa chanting.

I'm curious, why do you think it is offensive? And, offensive to whom?

True there is abhasa chanting. But this is light-years from people in every town and village in the world taking up bhakti-yoga.

Why it's offensive? It's arrogant, decietful, and untrue. It undermines the contribution from the real foundation of Gaudiya Vaisnavism, the Gaudiya Vaisnavism outside of ISKCON, Gaudiya Math, etc...

My dear friend, try to see the good in what they have done. It will be helpful for devotion if you try to focus on that which is good in everyone. Let the children play their game. "My dad is stronger than your dad! He will come and beat up your dad!" Why, childish talks, but should any thoughful person feel offended by such words?

Of course we all know how much the classical Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition contributes to the world. Only people of less eligibility fail to recognize it. As far as they are concerned, it is the advise of Sri Krishna that we are to avoid disturbing the minds of the ignorant while engaging them in acts of devotion. Through their contact with bhakti they will become purified in the course of time and attain eligibility for perceiving the more subtle truths of devotion.

For the record, here is the original verse we are speaking of (Caitanya-bhagavata, Antya 4.126).

pRthivIte Ache yata nagarAdi-grAma
sarvatra pracAra haibe mora nAma

"On the earth, in cities and villages, everywhere my name will be preached."
The verse actually does not say that in each village people will take up the path of bhakti. Rather, Mahaprabhu says that His name will be brought to each village. We cannot deny the fact that ISKCON has brought this name to many many cities and villages.

I recall my last visit to Radha Kund. I was on a walk with Ananta Das Baba. The discussion shifted over to ISKCON and Gaudiya Math as I asked about the subject matter of parampara. He then began to ponder the relationship of ISKCON and Gaudiya Math with Navadvip Das, discussing whether it is ISKCON that came from Gaudiya Math or vice versa. It was amusing to observe how unconcerned he had been about the two all these years. They did conclude that it is ISKCON which was established later. Baba then commented, "Yes, that Vedanti Maharaj (Bhaktivedanta), very quickly he went and spread all over the world." He was very respectful and recognized the merit of the far-spread preaching of Bhaktivedanta.

"The verse does not say that in each village people will take up the path of bhakti. Rather, Mahaprabhu says that His name will be brought to each village."

Right, that was my original interpretation. Then I simply reiterated your interpretation of "I believe this is the gist of the prophecy, that people in all those villages will actually take up Krishna-bhakti."

"My dear friend, try to see the good in what they have done."

Good. Where did I say ISKCON hasn't done any good. I just see them using this Chaitanya quote as their mission as ffensive.

If you find my rambling on ISKCON offensive I wonder what you think of some other pages on the Internet that really criticize Prabhupada and ISKCON. I was simply bringing up the point that for ISKCON to say that they have brought the holy name to every town and village in the world is a lie and very untrue. They shouldn't be doing it.

"We cannot deny the fact that ISKCON has brought this name to many many cities and villages."

Right, I'm not. They've also done a lot of bad and good. That's not my point obviously.

"Good. Where did I say ISKCON hasn't done any good. I just see them using this Chaitanya quote as their mission as ffensive."

The last word should be offensive not as ffensive!

Dear Guest,
From your expression in your writings, you sound terribly disillusioned. You sound angry at having accepted something that turned out to be not what you expected. Is that what you feel?

Why do you think I'm terribly disillusioned?

No, I have never accepted this line from ISKCON, fortunately.

Dear Guest,

If it is not a secret,are you connected to any of traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava lineages?

All right, so certainly we do recognize the fact that ISKCON has not literally brought the holy name to every single town and village of the world, but only to quite a few places on all continents and in almost every country. So shame on them. Happy?

I do not think it is all that many people in ISKCON who preach in such a bigoted way. I am personally in good terms with many individuals of ISKCON who have respect for the tradition I represent. In fact, both tomorrow and the day after we will be hosting a couple of devotees of ISKCON who come over for a good time with hours of kirtan and hari-katha.

If you feel disturbed by someone's preaching in ISKCON, you should contact him and tell him that what he says is not in your opinion very appropriate. That would be a good idea to do.



You are the only person who has adopted the word offensive in this thread as far as I can see. Why is it that everyone wants to be so obsessed with the faults in others? I think if people could come to the stage of even a 50/50 recognition of faults and virtues, Harinam would already be much more tasty.

I don't think it is a secret. Anyone with high intelligence could probably figure out that there is no parampara there. However I was not aware of it until about 1-2 years after my association in ISKCON.

To answer you question. No i'm not initiated into a traditional line & don't plan to.

"Why is it that everyone wants to be so obsessed with the faults in others? I think if people could come to the stage of even a 50/50 recognition of faults and virtues, Harinam would already be much more tasty."

I'm not obsessed with peoples faults and virtues like you keep on implying. However, the new Rogue section by Nitai Das and you on his website is pretty obsessed with faultfinding.

I find it unfortunate that you think I'm obsessed with fault-finding.

"It will be helpful for devotion if you try to focus on that which is good in everyone."

Thanks for taking the position of my siksa-Guru. Maybe you can stop fault-finding first and then I'll try.

The section is not written by myself. Nitai Das asked for some pictures which I sent, and I also related to him some of the history of Narayan Maharaj that I am aware of, having once been a follower of his. He is kind to give me credit for the same in the end of his writing. If you have concerns over the contents of his website, write him a letter. You'll find the e-mail address on his website.

Now you are upset because we do not want to recognize that ISKCON are so bad and liars when they somehow preach the holy name all over the world. First you are upset over someone who is in your opinion offensive, and then you become upset when someone does not want to join you in your critique of someone. What would make you happy and satisified?

You write:


So you do not envision a future for yourself in either ISKCON or Gaudiya Math, nor do you aspire to engage in sadhan bhajan proper in the classical Gaudiya tradition. What is it that you're here for, then? Our website is not very much concerned with finding the faults in others. We may engage in a discussion on philosophical controversies at times, but there is really little interest in unnecessary critique.

Thanks for asking questions. I am certain you can find a better place for your rants. Thank you very much and all the best for you.

"The section is not written by myself. Nitai Das asked for some pictures which I sent, and I also related to him some of the history of Narayan Maharaj that I am aware of, having once been a follower of his."

I know it's not written by you and I didn't say so. However you sent the pictures and I hope you know what your sending them for and therefore are part of that section of the website which emphasizes faultfinding. I'm not concerned at all about his website. However his very foul language upset me in some places.

"First you are upset over someone who is in your opinion offensive, and then you become upset when someone does not want to join you in your critique of someone."

First of all before you jump to so many conclusions maybe you should follow your own advice and not faultfind.
I apologize for criticizing ISKCON if you didn't like it. However I have seen several others criticizing ISKCON in its many facets including you I believe.

"Now you are upset because we do not want to recognize that ISKCON are so bad and liars when they somehow preach the holy name all over the world."

No i'm not upset that you won't join in my criticizing. I wonder how you jump to such conclusions.

"I am certain you can find a better place for your rants. Thank you very much and all the best for you. "

Thankyou for your fine Vaisnava attitude. Perhaps you can treat every Vaisnava like this and then visit Vrindavan.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try. Now, please take the rants somewhere else. We are trying to maintain a somewhat peaceful and spiritually conducive environment here.

got the message. wont' be back. I like your spiritual atmosphere my attacking other Vaisnavas. What a nice atmosphere!

Happy journey for you. My apologies if you felt attacked. I hope you will find likeminded people who share your views. Apparently this wasn't the place of choice.

Yeah. It was nice till you came in with your ranting and raving. You should get over your hostile mood and put it behind you if you want peace with yourself. Your fault-finding is not based on any philosophical or scriptural reference. You impress me as one who can't have a quite meal without talking about these things and suffer from indigestion as a result.

How ironical that goddess Sarasvati switched the words "by" and "my" in the sentence above.

Perhaps we should give the person a break. Maybe his English was not good enough in some way that further coloured his language unfavourably.

I believe he has already gone to take a break. I hope the introspective break he is taking will help him in his pursuit for spiritual life.

ISKCON has all sorts of propaganda that may or may not be based on fact. You need to take all of it with a grain of salt and sift through it for what is wortwhile and what is extraneous nonsense. Keep in mind that Gaudiya Math and ISKCON are not the only groups representing Caitanya Vaishnavism, so there are several options to choose from, not just those two.

I think whatever you hear anywhere should be taken with a grain of salt until you get it verified to a satisfactory degree. A majority of things you will come to hear in this world are not exactly facts, and if one is to get upset over it, he can be upset all the way through. If somewhere someone presents something which is too outrageous, then we just move on to another place where we find our peace of mind. There is no need to become a ghost who haunts over every place with dirt. bhUtAni yAnti bhUtejyA.

It is said (by Sridhar Svami), nindanaM doSa kIrtanam: "Discussion of defects is defamation." If we adopt dosa-kirtan as our regular daily practice, we will be absorbed in thoughts of others' faults all day through. Remembering that at the moment of death, we shall take birth with all those faults we meditated upon. For one who is determined in his glorification of others' faults, those very same faults may manifest in him even in this lifetime.

On the other hand, if we try to become absorbed in guna-kirtana, discussing the virtues of others, some virtue may become manifest in ourselves as well. Nitai Das has recently decided to glorify a number of Vaishnavas from the diverse Gaudiya tradition on his website. You can check out his "Saints' Corner" here: http://www.bhajankutir.net/saints.html . Though we may disagree with others, there is still much good to be said about everyone, and observing that good, we may also become good one day.