The Ages of Sri Krishna - references sought

I compiled the following in regards to the ages of Sri Krishna in general, and in regards to the datings of the Rasa-dance and leaving to Mathura in particular from whatever reference material I had at hand.

Now, I'd be keen to see the original references from Srila Visvanatha Cakravartipada and Sanatana Gosvami's Vaishnava Tosani, and any other related references.

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According to the Paddhati of Dhyanacandra Gosvami (he refers to Brhad-gautamiya-tantra), the eternal ages (in nitya-lila) of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna are as follows:

Sri Radha: 14 years, 2 months, 15 days
Sri Krishna: 15 years, 9 months, 7 days

In his commentary on Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Sri Visvanatha Cakravartipada gives the following course of Krishna's age and his pastimes:

Gokula Mahavana: Birth - 3 years 4 months
Vrindavan, Raman Reti: 3 years 4 months - 6 years 8 months
Nandagram: 6 years 8 months - 10 years 7 months

At the age of 10 years, 7 months, on the dark fortnight of the month of Caitra, Sri Krishna left to Mathura.

Sri Visvanatha Cakravartipada further explains that He stayed in Mathura until the age of 28 years, four months, and then moved over to Dvaraka.

In the Vaisnava Tosani commentary on the Srimad Bhagavata, Sanatana Gosvami explains that Sri Krishna went to visit Vraja for two months after the killing of Dantavakra and Salva, and thereafter concluded His Vrindavana pastimes, mounting on a chariot to reach Dvaraka again.

In regards to His age during the Rasa-lila, we find the following in the Krishna-book, chapter 29:

"It appears from the statements of Srimad-Bhagavatam that Krishna had to wait another year for such a moon [saradiya purnima] before enjoying the rasa dance with the gopis. At the age of seven years He lifted Govardhana Hill. Therefore the rasa dance took place during His eighth year."

However, we should understand in this regard that the ages of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna and the gopis do not correspond to the regular growth of people; indeed, reading the Gita-govinda of Jayadeva, it is obvious that the Rasa-dance is not a pastime of eight-year old boys and girls, but rather that of adolescents. Sri Visvanatha Cakravartipada explains in the context of SB 10.45.3:

"The three years and four months that Lord Krishna stayed in Mahavana were the equivalent of five years for an ordinary child, and thus in that period He completed His kaumara stage of childhood. The period from then to the age of six years and eight months, during which He lived in Vrndavana, constitutes His paugaana stage. And the period from the age of six years and eight months through His tenth year, during which time He lived in Nandisvara [Nandagrama], constitutes His kaisora stage. Then, at the age of ten years and seven months, on the eleventh lunar day of the dark fortnight of the month of Caitra, He went to Mathura, and on the fourteenth day thereafter He killed Kamsa. Thus He completed His kaisora period at age ten, and He eternally remains at that age. In other words, we should understand that from this point on the Lord remains forever a kisora."

In this regard, I'd also be eager to hear specific descriptions about the birth of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna.

Recently I heard that somewhere in the Puranas it is declared that Sri Radha was born before Sri Krishna, and is hence older. We know this does not apply to aprakata-lila, but what about in prakata-lila? Comments, anyone?

I am under the impression that Sri Radha is mentioned in only one Purana and that is the Bhavisya (or one of those, sorry if I got that wrong). The problem is that the Radha Krishna described therein is hardly recognisable, for example the Divine Couple are said there to be progenitors of the living entities, more like Shiva-Shakti. And the quality of the writing is poor, the tone very coarse, almost like a parody of Sri Yugal-lila. You can read it somewhere on the 'web. If you like I'll paste some here.

The first datable reference to Sri Radha, I'm fairly sure (apart from earlier songs if there were any), is the Gita Govinda of Jayadeva. You will note that in the first verse of that work Radha is asked to take Krishna home by Nandaji, because a storm is approaching. That is because Radha is a responsible elder, perhaps a couple of years older than Krishna. Her feeling romantically attracted to him on that journey home thus has an added forbidden aspect in that work, for she is older and trusted (But on second thought,I may be imagining that implication. Did Indians a millenium ago hold adolescent girls responsible in such situations?). I wonder if Gaudiya Vaishnavas have commented on GG?

Have you seen the Manipuri Rasalila performance? In the one I saw, Krishna was played by a tiny Kumari, while Radha and the Gopis were women. There seems to be some ambiguity in rasa here, a mix of maternal Vatsalya and romance. I think the Vatsalya sampradayas make more of this. One friend remarked to me from his traditional understanding,' Radha and Krishna are prepubescent, their pastimes are all innocent '. Some traditions prefer to see this. Perhaps Jayadev was 'sitting on the fence' to some extent, although the erotics of his work are unmistakeable.

But this is why the ages of Sri Yugal are so important, yes?
Adi.

That should be the Brahma Vaivarta Purana (not Bhavisya) which is divided into 4 Khandas, two of which are mostly devoted to Radha and Krishna, and one Khanda is called 'SriKrishnaJanma'. This would be the one you're looking for. It was on the 'net last year where I read it but it seems now to have disappeared. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Vaishnavas tend to see Puranic material as of varying utility, for example Ramanujites view only the Satvic Puranas as reliable, and do not include BV in this category. This is why I took the liberty of expressing my doubts about BVPurana (which I also heard expressed by an old Bengali devotee). I have not heard what the Gaudiya opinion is of the stories in this Purana but they do seem to ignore it. There's a question to ask Panditji.

It does seem incongruous that when Krishna was rasa dancing with the gopis and 'romancing' Radha, he was a 10 year old boy. Maybe the story of innocent, child-like madhuya ras was 'invented' at at time when there was an outbreak of beautiful lotus-eyed men exploiting young female (and possibly male), inticing them away with some fancy flute playing. Metaphoricly, it could refer to the innocent transcendent to any 'mundane sex desire' (which surely at the time was in full swing) of Radha-Krishna congugal love.

Their bodies were adolescent at that time, like in nitya-lila, though in the earthly pastimes they were only some 10 years old. No problem there.

Then how do you explain how some of the gopis who danced with Krishna had young babies and husbands at the time? Even if Radha was allegedly a couple of years older than Krishna, having babies at 10 or 11 years old is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Bit of math (but no Math) required, BVji. Something like 'demigod years' perhaps.

But also what I was getting at above was that perhaps devotees in different Rasas, particularly those in Vatsalya, may tend to see and describe these events differently, from those in Madhurya.

Otherwise, attacks of lotus-eyed flute-playing cowboys in the forest late at night seems to be the ubiquitous affliction (those vocab-expanding sleep tapes are paying off!).

Does anyone have access to Jiva's and Visvanatha's commentaries? It would be interesting to know what exactly they've explained in this regard.

Sorry don't have access to Jiva's and Vishvanatha's commentaries but still fascinated by question of Radha in Purana. Recently got access to info. Here is ref from Puranic Encyclopedia (more references to Sri Radha than I previously thought):


'RADHA I. Sri. Krsna's dearest consort. Radha is considered to be one of the two forms of Laksmidevi. When Krsna lived in Gokula as a man with two hands Radha was his dearest consort. But when he lives in Vaikuntha as four-handed Visnu, Laksmi is his dearest consort. (Devi Bhagavata 9, 1; Brahmavaivarta Purina, 2, 49 and 56-57 and Adi Parva Chapter 11) .

Different versions about the birth of Radhi are given in the Puranas, as follows :-

(i) She was born in Gokula as daughter of Vrsabhanu and Kalavati. (Brahmavaivarta Purina, 2, 49; 35-42 ; NArada Purana, 2. 81) .

(ii) She was got as Bhumi-kanya (earth-girl) when King Vrsabhinu was preparing the ground to conduct a Yajna. (Padma Purina; Brahma Purina 7).

(iii) She was born from the left side of Krsna. (Brahmavaivarta Purana).

(iv) At the tune of Krsna's birth Visnu asked his attendants to be born on earth. Accordingly Radha, dear consort of Krsna, took her birth in Gokula under the star jyestha in the morning of Suklastami day in Bhadrapada month.. (Adi Parva 11 ).

(v) Krsna once went with Viraja, the Gopi woman, to the hall of enjoyment (rasamandalam). Knowing about it Radha followed them to the hall, but both of them were not to be seen. On another occasion when Radha found Viraja in the company of Krsna and Sudama she, in great anger, insulted Krsna whereupon Sudama cursed her to be born in human womb and experience the pangs of separation from Krsna. (Narada Purana 2. 8; Brahmavaivarta Purina.. 2. 49) and Radha cursed him in turn to be born in the Dahnava dynasty. It was on account of this curse of Radha that Sudama was born as the asura called Sankhacuda. (Brahma Vaivarta Purina, 2. 4. 9. 34) .

(vi) Radha is considered to be one of the five forces which help Visnu in the process of creation. (Devi Bhagavata 9. 1 ; Narada Purana 2. 81) .

(vii) Radha is the mental power of Sri Krsna. (For details see under Pancapranas).

RADHA II. Wife of Adhiratha, the foster-father of Karna and the foster-mother of Karna. (See under Karna).'

A healthy diversity of views, inconcievably one-and-different! I am not sure if 'Adi Parva' refers to Mahabharata. The book's reference to Krishna would no doubt be equally helpful. Interesting cross-reference to Pancapranas.

They are generally explained as pastimes which have taken place during different days of Brahma, just as the varying accounts of Varahadeva, Buddhadeva and so forth. I would tend to believe that in the nitya-lila people remember Her as being born as the daughter of Vrisabhanu and Kirtida from the womb of Kirtida-devi. This conception follows in the wake of Raghunatha Das Gosvami's Vraja Vilasa Stava (verse 90):

gAndharvAyA jani maNir abhUd yatra saGkIrtitAyAm
AnandotkaraiH sura muni naraiH kIrtidA garbha khamyA,
gopI gopaiH surabhi-nikaraiH saMparIte 'tra mukhye-
rAvalyAkhye vRSa-ravi pure prIti pUro mamAstAm
“May I drown in a flood of love for Ravala, the capital of Maharaja Vrisabhanu, where many cowherdmen and women live, and where the jewel-like Sri Radha appeared from the mine-like womb of Her mother Kirtida, which was blissfully praised by demigods, sages and human beings.”