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Gaudiya Discussions Archive » RAGANUGA REMNANTS
Whatever is left over from the archives of the old Raganuga.Com forums after most of the substantial threads were moved to the relevant areas of the main forums.

Jagat Ji - I met Sri Kishor Ray Gosvami -



stefan - Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:31:59 +0530
PS. I didnīt think anybody here was interested in my connection with the Sri Sampradaya. Therefore I didnīt mention it. But it came to my attention via Madhvananda Dasa that there is a rumour on the Indiadivine forums that I am a Sri Vaishnava. So I might as well tell all of you here about it. And yes, I am the good old "Premananda Das", who has rejected his previous fake gurus.
Since the Gaudiya Vaishnavas are not connected to any of the four vaishnava sampradayas I did not take diksha there. Even if I had wanted it, Gosai would not have given. He told me that by chanting the maha-mantra I would be led to a Guru. When I went to South India, Sri Ramanuja led me to his and Sri Sri Lakshmi-Narayanaīs feet through the love and mercy of his followers.
I donīt subscribe to the view of the Gaudiyas that Sriman Narayana is an aspect of Krishna, who supposedly is "svayam bhagavan" and has some "unique qualities" that are not found in Sriman Narayana. That is a fabrication by the Gaudiya school. Sriman Narayana is the one God, who descends as Lord Krishna and Lord Ramacandra. Any other ideas are later speculations.
Regarding gopi-bhava, it is not unique to the Gaudiya theology, as many believe. Sri Andal wrote songs about gopi-bhava a long time before Sri Chaitanya appeared.
The Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya is the original Vaishnava school. Whereas the Bengali Vaishnavas only have borrowed different conceptions from various sampradayas.
The problem with the Bengali school is that it has not been proven beyond doubt that they are connected to a Sampradaya. They have no mantras that for example the Madhvas have!
To say that Chaitanya is God does not prove anything. That idea is based on interpretations of various verses from Bhagavata Purana, and on fabricated scriptures. He was no doubt a great saint (and certainly RAVING MAD in love of God), but not the Supreme Lord. This does not minimize his position though. Rather the opposite. Because the Lord always stays in the hearts of His devotees, who are most dear to Him. The true devotees even control God by their love for Him. DS.
Madhava - Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:33:02 +0530
QUOTE
PS. I didnīt think anybody here was interested in my connection with the Sri Sampradaya. Therefore I didnīt mention it. But it came to my attention via Madhvananda Dasa that there is a rumour on the Indiadivine forums that I am a Sri Vaishnava. So I might as well tell all of you here about it. And yes, I am the good old "Premananda Das", who has rejected his previous fake gurus.
Since the Gaudiya Vaishnavas are not connected to any of the four vaishnava sampradayas I did not take diksha there. Even if I had wanted it, Gosai would not have given. He told me that by chanting the maha-mantra I would be led to a Guru. When I went to South India, Sri Ramanuja led me to his and Sri Sri Lakshmi-Narayanaīs feet through the love and mercy of his followers.
I donīt subscribe to the view of the Gaudiyas that Sriman Narayana is an aspect of Krishna, who supposedly is "svayam bhagavan" and has some "unique qualities" that are not found in Sriman Narayana. That is a fabrication by the Gaudiya school. Sriman Narayana is the one God, who descends as Lord Krishna and Lord Ramacandra. Any other ideas are later speculations.
Regarding gopi-bhava, it is not unique to the Gaudiya theology, as many believe. Sri Andal wrote songs about gopi-bhava a long time before Sri Chaitanya appeared.
The Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya is the original Vaishnava school. Whereas the Bengali Vaishnavas only have borrowed different conceptions from various sampradayas.
The problem with the Bengali school is that it has not been proven beyond doubt that they are connected to a Sampradaya. They have no mantras that for example the Madhvas have!
To say that Chaitanya is God does not prove anything. That idea is based on interpretations of various verses from Bhagavata Purana, and on fabricated scriptures. He was no doubt a great saint (and certainly RAVING MAD in love of God), but not the Supreme Lord. This does not minimize his position though. Rather the opposite. Because the Lord always stays in the hearts of His devotees, who are most dear to Him. The true devotees even control God by their love for Him. DS.


How is it that you cannot get rid of that bad attitude even by changing the sampradaya? I had big hopes that you'd have toned down your unnecessarily confrontative style with which you attempt to attack and undermine that which is sacred for others. I was very disturbed observing the way you addressed Gaudiyas outside your own former lineage. If you keep on such an attitude, you will come to leave one sampradaya after the other, as pride always comes before the fall. Please try to respect the faith of others, whether it be of those in the Gaudiya Math, whether those in the larger Gaudiya sampradaya, or whoever it may be whom you would like to attack next time.


QUOTE
I donīt subscribe to the view of the Gaudiyas that Sriman Narayana is an aspect of Krishna, who supposedly is "svayam bhagavan" and has some "unique qualities" that are not found in Sriman Narayana. That is a fabrication by the Gaudiya school. Sriman Narayana is the one God, who descends as Lord Krishna and Lord Ramacandra. Any other ideas are later speculations.

There is no doubt over the fact that the view is unique to the Gaudiya tradition. Nevertheless you need not attack the tradition because of it. Why is it that people always experience a need to attack others when their own faith is weak? You began to attack others when your faith in your back-then guru was weak to cover yourself from the doubt, and you still continue with the same attitude. Just go to wherever you are happy and stay there in contemplation of all that is good and beautiful in that to which you feel attracted. If you are obsessed with pointing out the flaws you observe in others, you will never come to taste the sweetness of Sriman Narayana.


QUOTE
Regarding gopi-bhava, it is not unique to the Gaudiya theology, as many believe. Sri Andal wrote songs about gopi-bhava a long time before Sri Chaitanya appeared.

Aside some of the beautiful songs of the Alwars, a tradition of gopi-bhava was there among the Nimbarkis since a long time before Mahaprabhu, what to speak of Bilvamangala, Candidas, Jayadeva and the rest. Only very ignorant persons would propose that there was no gopi-bhava prior to Sri Caitanya.


QUOTE
The Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya is the original Vaishnava school. Whereas the Bengali Vaishnavas only have borrowed different conceptions from various sampradayas.

I believe that is also the only true sampradaya, and everyone else is mislead and so? Why such an attitude. The Madhvites also boast that they are the only true sampradaya with the only correct siddhanta. Why don't you go and quarrel with them. We are not interested in narrow-minded quarrels.


QUOTE
The problem with the Bengali school is that it has not been proven beyond doubt that they are connected to a Sampradaya. They have no mantras that for example the Madhvas have!

Several Mathas of the Madhva-tradition give Gopala Mantra to their initiates. That should be of interest for you. Aside this, we regard Nityananda and Advaita as that very same Vishnu whom you worship and from whom the mantra emanates. That is our faith, and you would do well to respect that. I am certain that any antagonist can launch an insensitive attack upon the theology of others. Have taste for faults and you will find them, without an end. The world is full of them, and an expert will see faults even where they do not factually exist.

Now, in concluding, if you wish to discuss that which is common in our traditions and a cause of rejoice and nourishment for both, you are heartily welcome, but if you wish to pick quarrel, then please do so elsewhere.
Jagat - Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:55:12 +0530
Well spoken, Madhava. Good luck, Premanandaji.