Leather is everywhere; how much to avoid it? - Ahimsa in practical life in the West

As an aspiring devotee, I'm struck by the degree to which American culture relies on the flesh and skin of dead animals.  Leather is everywhere, and I really wish I could do a better job of avoiding it.

On the one hand, I'm turned off at the prospect of sitting on leather seats in a car, or on a friend's or business associate's furniture.  But on the other hand, yogis anciently sat on mats made of skins.

How have the bhaktas on this forum dealt with the seeming omnipresence of leather in Western culture?  Am I being "fanatical" to be uncomfortable with the idea of driving a car with leather seats, and wearing leather shoes?  Or am I a demon for occasionally driving a car with leather seats, and wearing a pair of leather shoes, etc.?

QUOTE

Am I being "fanatical" to be uncomfortable with the idea of driving a car with leather seats, and wearing leather shoes?  Or am I a demon for occasionally driving a car with leather seats, and wearing a pair of leather shoes, etc.?

In the Padma Purana it is declared:

dvau bhUta-sargau loke ’smin daiva Asura eva ca |
viSNu-bhaktaH smRto daiva Asuras tad-viparyayaH ||
"In this world, two kinds of living entities exist, the divine and the demoniac. The Vishnu-bhaktas are known as the divine, and the demons are those opposed to them."

Therefore if you are opposed to the Vishnu-bhaktas' holy principle of never sitting on a leather seated car, then you are inevitably counted among the demons. If you want to be a true Vishnu-bhakta, whenever you see leather, you must scream, "Demons, demons!", as loud as you can.

Seriously, I believe there is a good deal of gray area in between the completely divine and the completely demoniac.

I believe it is good to try and avoid leather as far as possible, but if on occasion you sit on a leather seat, there is no need to make a big show out of refusing to sit on it. There is certainly nothing wrong in feeling inconvenient with objects made of leather. It is a fact that an animal has been killed for its sake, and the fact won't disappear by ignoring it. A Vaishnava is supposed to have some compassion in his heart, and if upon witnessing the outcome of cruel deeds he feels nothing in his heart, then it is a time for deep introspection.

It is not very difficult nowadays to get good shoes without leather, and if you are about to purchase a car, there are certainly plenty of options in choosing the seat draping. I personally draw a line between items I purchase and items others have purchased which I come in touch with, such as their car seats, armchairs and so forth.

Of course Bhaktisiddhanta wore leather shoes, apparently to impress the leaders and intellectuals who were under British influence. This is a very famous example given of yukta-vairagya in the Gaudiya Math. Go figure.

How were such mats acquired in those times? Am I right in thinking that one waited until an animal died a natural death and then skinned it?

That sounds rather likely. It is known, though, that some kshatriyas would hunt and kill animals in order to keep the forest peaceful and to excercise their skills in battle at times of peace.

Anyhow, the present-day sadhakas need not worry about acquiring deerskins or tiget-skin kaupin.

Not only that, but he also served meat at a reception to which one of his sannyasi disciples objected, to which B.S. (sic!) answered, that he had deviced these strategies thousands of years before, suggesting that he knew what he was doing.

Source of the story?

"B.S. (sic!)"?

[quote=Madhava,May 7 2003, 08:42 PM] Not only that, but he also served meat at a reception to which one of his sannyasi disciples objected, to which B.S. (sic!) answered, that he had deviced these strategies thousands of years before, suggesting that he knew what he was doing. [/QUOTE]

Source of the story?

[/quote]
B.R. Shridhar, he was also the sannyasi who protested.

I used to purchase deer skin shoes and eel skin wallets instead of their leather counterparts. In some professional settings, the wearing of animal skin is somewhat unavoidable, unless you can tolerate vinyl shoes, which do not let the feet breathe at all. I have very sweaty feet, so that is not practical for me.

I draw the line at leather jackets, which are so popular these days in America. Personally I think it makes all those yuppies look like Gestapo agents from the Third Reich. Leather upholstery in vehicles is the most durable, but I always get cloth.

I am definitely attached to my top of the line Nike Airs that are only available from their online store. They are mostly synthetic, with perhaps some leather trim. I have to put the gel insoles into them. I have too many problems with my feet at the age of 49. Without good arch support and padding, I have trouble walking around. I don't think I'll be putting on those Indian wooden sandals with the one peg anymore. Those were fine when I was a young man, but not at this age.

Very surprising about serving meat. This is nothing new though, as I have read (in a publication) that being so eager to build/restore the temple at Alarnath, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta even took the step of personally rolling up the worker's cigarettes so that they may work faster!

Yes, yes, my friend. Me also!

As well I require to always wear expensive orthopedic stockings (as I mentioned to you elsewhere) which attracted a lot of attention on my visit to Sri Radha-Kunda.

So I actually wore shoes or slippers all the time outside of the Mandir. Especially I wore my joggers around the Govardhan Parikrama, eliminating injury and completing the circuit in 4 hrs. But I got a lot of disapproving looks! But considering some wealthy Indians now do the circuit in a Tata-Sumo car, with a hand out the window holding dripping milk pot for pious reward, I did not feel too guilty about it.

Look, decades ago, an ACBSP disciple related to me that Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami Mhrj described an ayurvedic rasayan (tonic) which is prepared by boiling a whole calf in ghee! Yes, he responded to his incredulous listeners, a baby cow. Cooked whole in ghee.

A Tamil Vaishnava of my long acquaintance was giving his pregnant wife 'monkey rasayan' which he told me was an ayurvedic tonic prepared by boiling a monkey! He told me that the requirement to be vegetarian does not apply to medicine, which seemed to underpin Bh Swami Mhrj's understanding. I have heard of Tamil Vaishnava Pandita's confirming this view too.

I think the point here, and perhaps also in the matter of leather, is that Indians traditionally have a different understanding of vegetarianism to westerners, and we have perhaps assumed too much and delved too little into the actual specifics.

On the other hand I know a Bengali whose Vaishnava grandfather was cut to pieces in Bangladesh 50 yrs ago for refusing to eat Beef put in front of his mouth by Islamist fanatics. I doubt I would have such courage.

I agree with what you say, Adiyen. It's difficult to understand the details of Indian tradition.

I think the leather used for mrdanga is cow skin, but no one in India makes a big deal out of it.

Actually, concerning the use of animals for medicine, nothing is wrong with that concept, since human life is more important than animal life, so for the purpose of saving a life, there is no sin involved.

There is a narration in Narada Pancharatrak about two youths were on the point of dying due to a famine.. They owned a cow and finally decided to slaughter and offer it to the pitris, in order to save their lives.

Their next birth was royal, and the cow was reborn as a queen

The next logical question raised is what mantras would be suitable for chanting by meat eaters. Obviously the mahAmantra is recommended for everyone in this age, but are there others that have been given out traditionally to those that have not yet advanced enough in their sadAcara to be veg-heads? My own view is that perhaps the paCca-tattva mantra could be given to those still addicted to meat and that they could be encouraged to eliminate beef from their diet at the outset.

Vegetarianism is still viewed by most Westerners as eccentric. I know that it is popular out on the West Coast and parts of the UK, but that is not true for the rest of America, Europe and Australia. Just look at the writers out in Hollywood that almost always have the vegetarian character as the one that is an oddball or that it is supposed to be a humorous characteristic. There is a reason for that.

Any mantra connected wth Krishna would be helpful if beef is removed from the diet. It depends on the situation, and what they are favourable to.

If they like Krishna, then the HK mantra is the best of course.. Some may prefer Shiva, Rama or Ganesh etc. The relevant mantras are also capable of uplifting the jiva from sin.

You can't gve people what they don't want.

I mean you don't have to give them the Shiva or Ganesh mantras, since you are a Gaudhya, but those people can take shelter in other groups.

So, in other words, you are advocating getting them to be Hindu, no matter what their stage of development, ADR. Is that a correct assessment?

I was looking more for some practice they can take up on the road to rAgAnuga sAdhana, without having to wait until they are complete veg-heads. Also, they may never reach the point in this life of maintaining a strict diet, but that should not preclude them from following the path of bhakti in a manner suitable to their level. At least that is what I have understood from Mahaprabhu's mission. Also, they might still want to identify themselves as Buddhist bhaktas or Protestant bhaktas rather than Hindu bhaktas, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that approach.

I really don't practice preaching to people of any faith actually, I don't mean that you should advocate they turn Hindu.

You should give them the Pancha Tattwa mantra if they would accept it. A lot of people in my area like Ganesh, ánd they have their groups, I dont advocate or stop them from anything. But finding one who would chant Hare Krishna is much more rare.

What I have been doing is to ask peope to say "Nitai Gaur Hari". It seems to me the appropriate introductory mantra or nama, since it leads upward from Nitai to Gauranga and establishes their divinity in Hari. It is also easy enough for everyone to say. Christians also have an affinity to the fact that apparently trinity, three entities of one God, is present in this name. Their mercy manifests in their hearts without their knowing exactly what they are saying. I think what anyone eats or not is a secondary consideration. At least I consider this practice to be a process of collecting sukriti for sraddha to develop.
Ananga mentioning the Pancha tattva mantra as the appropriate mantra seems kind of putting a hierarchy of value to the different Gaudiya mantras.
("H.K. being the best of course..." adr singh)

That's brilliant. Nawadwip.
The trinity strategy works very well for Christians, I am not expert in the preaching field but I have observed devotees use it like Brahma Shiva Vishnu. But the Nitai Gaur Hari is better indeed. B)