Manjaris' seva - Their moods and services

QUOTE

Since this question was directed to Radhapada, maybe he can answer more elaborately.  

Can a layer of bricks carve a marvelous statue?

One thing extra I do remember:

If Krsna exhibits a desire to enjoy with a manjari, the manjari replies, "Krsna, my heart belongs to You, but my body belongs to Radhika."

Keep in mind that these are advanced topics and not for the general population.  For mass consumption, only knowledge of the five rasas and the eternal relationship between the jIVAtmA and bhagavAn are taught.  Rupa has written on the subject in separate books such as "Ujjvala-nilamani", because of the confidential nature of the subject matter of maJjarI-bhAva, and those books are not to be as widely disseminated as texts like Gita and Bhagavata-purana.  One should be chanting for quite some time and living purely before even approaching such topics.  Texts like CC sort of bridge the gap, on account of containing references that hint at the subject.  Hence we have this logical progression of texts from Gita to Bhagavata to Tattva-sandarbha to CC to the intimate writings of Rupa and others.

As Nitai Das has pointed out, certain Vaishnava institutions have over emphasized Mahabharata and Ramayana and their members have consequently become stuck there and are unable to progress further no matter how much bhajan and puja they do.  It is not good to jump to the advanced topics prematurely, but it is also not advantageous to get stuck on the basics, which are meant solely as introductory material to get one started on the path.  I would have to say that the latter mistake is actually worse in the long run.  Our baba always required Western disciples to do massive amounts of chanting for a period of time before letting them study anything related to aSTakAliya lIlA smaraNa, even if they had already been chanting for several years before approaching him.  In a way it was also a concession for those that did not live in India permanently, so that they could take advantage of their limited time there.  In the case of Indian disciples, he no doubt would make them wait for many years, if necessary, before letting them move on to those topics.

"As Nitai das pointed out certain Vaishnava Institute have over emphasized Mahabharata and Ramayan  and their members have consequently become stuck there"

This is very true Ramdas.
I am of Indian origin and am aware that many Indians in India and around the world have not as yet been introduced to Sri Krishna's romantic affairs as expressed on this site. The topics expressed was also an eye-opener for me.

"In the case of Indian disciples, he no doubt would make them wait for many years, if necessary, before letting them move on to these topics"
Even though my father read and taught the different Kandas in the Ramayan, also Gita and Mahabarata. He conducted satsanga and did pujas, he had to serve his Guru and waited for five years to get Diksha. That is he got the gayatri mantra and "Prem Sagar". The topics on Prem Sagar was to be kept as a secret, even I was not allowed to know "Prem
Sagar". So dear vaishnavas, I feel very fortunate, to read about these topics, by Guru and your mercy.
After being with Iskcon over twenty yrs and in the Math, where these topics are still forbidden, I felt that there was a gap in my spiritual life. These  topics are providing enthusiasm, as well as taking me a step further, which otherwise I would not have known.
Gandharvika

QUOTE

One should be chanting for quite some time and living purely before even approaching such topics.  Texts like CC sort of bridge the gap, on account of containing references that hint at the subject.  Hence we have this logical progression of texts from Gita to Bhagavata to Tattva-sandarbha to CC to the intimate writings of Rupa and others.

As Nitai Das has pointed out, certain Vaishnava institutions have over emphasized Mahabharata and Ramayana and their members have consequently become stuck there and are unable to progress further no matter how much bhajan and puja they do.  It is not good to jump to the advanced topics prematurely, but it is also not advantageous to get stuck on the basics, which are meant solely as introductory material to get one started on the path.  I would have to say that the latter mistake is actually worse in the long run.  Our baba always required Western disciples to do massive amounts of chanting for a period of time before letting them study anything related to aSTakAliya lIlA smaraNa, even if they had already been chanting for several years before approaching him.

Dear Anangaji , please accept my sincere Dandavats !

Reading the above, I start to think to my self and ask: "why do someone would have any interesting to know more about Rasa -Lila, Manjari-bhava and so OM..."

It is a BIG issue if one cosider the possibility of commiting offense. But on the other hand if someone has been around the devotees, chanting Hare Krishna Mantra, hearing Krishna-Katha, honoring Maha Prasada, visiting Holy Places in Vrindavana, Mayapura, Hardvarar, etc.. Plus doing Deity worship, some preaching here and there... So, after executing all this process of devotional service for more than 20 years, don't you think that would be a good start, to ask questions of that Nature ? One may say no ! And I would say: "dont you  believe on the Power of the causeless mercy of Srimat Radhika ? Dont you see that all these informations are already available in the form of Books and Saints, that are giving it away ? Did you forgette that Lord Nityananda Prabhu would go door to door and ask to everyone He met to chant the Names of Gourangadeva; the incarnation of Mercy, the very Personification of Prema!
The One Who out of  love-intoxication, He  freely distributed  that Prema for Sri Sri Radha Krishna !"
There is another point too: what one is suppose to do after 20 years of hearing and chanting songs composed by: Srila Narothama Das Thakura, such as :
Sakhi-Vrnda Vijnapti  Radha-Krishna Prana Mora, Sri Rupa-Manjari Pada, or Brsabhanu-Suta by Srila Bhaktivinode as well as Yamuna-puline, Radha-Kunda-Tata, Sri Krishna Vihare, Jay Radha Madhava, of the same author, or what about Sri Vraja-Dhama-Mahimamrta, by Siddha Krishna das Babaji?

My dear friend, I would say, it is praticaly impossible for one who after hearing this songs,to not think about Krishna and His companions, (even if just for a moment!) that person will be bound to ask and think about Krishna's Lilas with His dearest Friends, the Gopis.

The Lord Himself states: vraja-badhu sange Krsnera rasadi-vilasa
je iha kahe sune koriya visvasa
hrdroga kama tara tat kale hoy khaya
tin guna khobha nahi mahadhira hoy
ujjvala madhura prema bhakti sei paya
anande krisna madhurjye bihare sadaya
je sune je pore tara phala etadrsi
sei bhavasita sei seve aharsini

"The heart-diesease of lust will be destroyed in anyone hearing or reciting with devotion the topic of Krishna's Rasa and other Lilas with the Gopis. Thus the three modes of material nature will not affect such a self-contented person, and he shall obtain ujjvala-madhura prema bhakti. This is ultimate happiness, whereby one goes on tasting Krishna's imcomparable sweeteness constatly, Thus I decalre that if one heras or read these topics, he shall achieve perfection, and being absorbed in the lila-rasa, render seva both day and night."

In the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, Sri Rupa Gosvamipada advises:

smartavyah satatam visnur
vismartabhya na jatucit
sarve vidhinisedhah syur etayor eva kinkarah

Lord Visnu ( Sri Krishna )should always be remember and never be forgotten; all sastric and prohibitions are subservent to this principle

I do not think that I deserve any of this mercy from Gouranga Mahaprabhu, but somehow it came to my life , I never asked for anything like that, but He gave, out of His unlimited-causeless-kindness. He gave me the right do to that ! I think, now it is my turn to do the best use of this unforgettable-matchless-gift !

---

unforgettable.... that's how You are... unforgettable that how You stays....
It is incredible..., how Someone so unforgettable..., thinks that i'm... unforgettable too...

---

Jay Kaliyuga-Pavana, Jay Gourahari !


Ys
Hari Saran

Dear Sri Hari,
I sincerely doubt that Ananga was discouraging you in anyway. He was just giving us a sober reminder of the depth of mystery in Sri Krsna's Vraja lila. Krsna in Vrndavan is very difficult to attain, what to speak of becoming a maidservant of Sri Radha, manjari bhava. The path has been mercifully revealed in kali yuga by Sri Caitanya and his Goswami associates. Nevertheless, it requires a clean heart and proper siddhanta to understand it. He makes the point that a natural progression is necessary to grasp the higher and finer details of Sri Krsna's name, form. qualities and lila. For many of us who spent years in the institutions of either ISKCON or GM, we definately had our plate full for tattva, although somethings were misrepresented as well, which requires some re-examining.

Jay Sadhu-Sanga !

He, Ananga, is right . I  understood his intention.

Here is the following statement from Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, 1.2.22; it gives a hint about the condition of Jiva-badha:

bhukti-mukti-sprha yavat
picci hrdi vatate
tava-bhakti-sukhasyatra
katham abhyudayo bhavet

"There is no question of experiencing the pleasure of devotion as long as the twing ghosts sense pleasure and libaration haunt us"

A devotee's prayer :

" O Vaishnava Thakura, You are an Ocean of Mercy.
Please Shower your compassion upon me.
Give me the shade of Your Lotus Feet
And purify my polluted heart.
I am following You, begging.
Krishna is Yours, You have the power
Give Him to me !"
                                             
                                      Sharanagati



Let us not loose our hopes !

Ramdasji, wouldn't the progression rather be Gita to TS to Bhagavata, for TS establishes the authority of the Bhagavata?

You could be right about that, although I am not aware of any prerequisite to studying Bhagavata Purana, which can be done simultaneously with reading the Gita.  In fact, all four of those texts could be studied simultaneously.  Just because there is a logical progression does not mean that one necessarily needs to read them in a particular order.  Gita, Bhagavatam and CC are complete in themselves and firmly establish the practice of bhakti.  The advantage of starting with the Gita is that it is a more condensed text that one can get through in short order and come away with a basic understanding of the philosophical underpinnings of the Gaudiya tradition.  What we need is a good translation with the commentaries of Visvanatha and Baladeva.  All of the ones available have their shortcomings.  The "As It Is" edition or Tripurari's will have to suffice for now.

QUOTE

What we need is a good translation with the commentaries of Visvanatha and Baladeva.  All of the ones available have their shortcomings.  The "As It Is" edition or Tripurari's will have to suffice for now.

There is also a third English edition published by Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, including the "Bhavanuvada" of Visvanatha and a fusion of Bhaktivinoda's Rasika Ranjana commentary and Narayan Maharaja's notes.

Aside this, as some of you may know, thanks to Jagadananda, you can now find the complete Sanskrit commentaries of Ramanuja, Shankara, Sridhara, Visvanatha, Baladeva and Madhusudana from the Gaudiya Grantha Mandira.

Dear Vaishnavas, sorry to keep ask you to accept my Dandavats, I know it is embarassing, but please, just do it, for the sake of Sadhu-sanga.

I have a question about Ananga Manjari : She is Srimat Radhika's Siter, Jahnavadevi, expansion of Sri Baladeva Prabhu in Vraja Lilas and Nityananada in Goura-Lila, and She is the only Manjari that has Sambhoga with Vrajendranandana . Correct ?

What is this Singular position that She has in Vraja-Lila ? What kind of Yogamaya that holds Her ?

Who is this Mystical  Personality, that has all this access ?

Every time I think about Her , immediately , I remember : Gopisvara Mahadeva , Purnamasi ma , Vrindadevi ... I wonder why ?

Ys
Hari

Ananga Manjari is manjari in name only, otherwise she is of sakhi-bhava, sambhogecchamayi. Kinkaris do not have vilasa with Sri Krishna.

Her unique position in Vraja-lila comes about on account of her being Srimati's younger sister.

QUOTE

Every time I think about Her , immediately , I remember : Gopisvara Mahadeva , Purnamasi ma , Vrindadevi ... I wonder why ?

Perhaps because they all have rather unique services in the lila?

There are still a few gaps in those commentaries. I am so busy that I haven't been able to get back to them. I have to edit Ramanuja and Shankara's 18th chapter and type in Madhusudana's first chapter and finish up his 18th. But the other three commentaries are complete.

The three GM editions are adequate introduction to the Gita for anyone on the Vaishnava path I would say. I have minor quibbles with all of them, but that's normal.

vasanta ketakI kAntir maJjulAnaGga maJjarI |
yathArthAkSara nAmeyam indIvara nibhAmbarA || 119 ||
durmado madavAn asyAH patir yo devaraH svasuH |
priyAsau lalitA devyA vizAkhAyA vizeSataH || 120 ||
"Ananga Manjari's bodily luster resembles that of a lovely (golden) Ketaki-flower in the spring. Her dress shines like blue lotus flowers, and her bodily sweetness is coveted even by Cupid, hence her name. Her husband's name is Durmada, who is the proud brother-in-law of Her older sister Radha. She is very much loved by Lalita, and even more by Visakha."

(Sri Radha-Krishna Ganoddesa Dipika)

QUOTE(Madhava @ Nov. 24 2002,04:35)

Ananga Manjari is manjari in name only, otherwise she is of sakhi-bhava, sambhogecchamayi. Kinkaris do not have vilasa with Sri Krishna.

Her unique position in Vraja-lila comes about on account of her being Srimati's younger sister.

QUOTE

Every time I think about Her , immediately , I remember : Gopisvara Mahadeva , Purnamasi ma , Vrindadevi ... I wonder why ?

Perhaps because they all have rather unique services in the lila?

So, you are saying: She is not a Manjari  but a Sakhi, isn't ? And that is why She can have that Sambhoga relationship with Madhusudana . That is interesting ! It's the very first time I heard it ! I always thought She was a Manjari with a special concession, based on the idea that She is so close to the Divine Couple,it would be practically unavoidable to Her to not have Sambhoga.
Plus , being a younger sister of Srimat Radharani, it would be a little easyer to Radhanani to convince Her younger sister, to have a such intimacy with the darling son of Mother Yasoda... But She can't convince the other Majaris, because of their high level of servitude towards Her ?

According to Ananta Das Pandit, she is sambhogecchatmika, "a manjari in name only", in reality of sakhi-bhava.

It should not be astonishing that someone has name "Manjari" although not being a nitya-sakhi or prana-sakhi (the two categories of manjaris). Among the vara-sakhi, the eight exalted gopis among whom Ananga-manjari is classified, we find also Kandarpa Manjari (RKGD 1.97). Also Prema Manjari, though Manjari in name, is counted among priya-sakhis (RKGD 1.176).

I read in Sri Gaura Govindarcana Smarana Paddhatti (Attachment for the Manjaris, 105-106):

"Then, the sadhaka-manjari shall contemplate her devotion to her manjari-gana (group) as follows: Ananga Manjari, Vilasa Manjari, Asoka Manjari, Rasa Manjari, Rasala Manjari, Kamala Manjari, Karuna Manjari, Guna Manjari and others are all very famous."

This refers to Guru Manjari and other manjaris in the pranali, as well as to some others with whom she is assigned to serve the Divine Couple together with.

There are different conceptions about Ananga Manjari in different parivars. No Gosvami grantha firmly establishes her position, hence differing insights. Be prepared -- you are inevitably going to face varying conceptions of bhajan in exploring the classical Gaudiya tradition.

This section listing the names of those manjaris concludes with a noteworthy statement for those who consider guru-revealed siddha-pranali a heterodox practice.

nAma-rUpAdi-tat-sarvaM |
guru-dattaM ca bhAvayet ||

"Meditating on the name, form etc. of them all, as given by the guru."

According to the conceptions of the Nityananda parivar of Dhananjaya Pandit, Ananga Manjari does not possess bhavollasa rati, according to Ananta Das Pandit Baba.

There are some devotees outside of genuine Gaudiya Vaisnava pranali who are propagating that a dual manjari-sambhoga bhava is attainable, but this is incorrect.

It is either sambhogecchatmika or then it is not. If there is no sambhogeccha (desire for sambhoga) in a gopi who serves Radha, then we are speaking of a manjari. The sva-paksa gopis (those in Sri Radha's own group) are always eager to unite Radha and Krishna, whether sambhogeccatmika or tat-tad-bhavecchatmika. This concept is not unique to the manjaris. However, what is unique to them is the fact that they refuse sambhoga with Krishna even if Srimati attempts to arrange for it. Thus there are no manjaris who have sambhoga. If there is a desire for sambhoga with Krishna along with a greater desire to serve the sambhoga of Sri Yugala Kishora, then we are speaking of other sakhis in Radha's group, not the manjaris. That in itself cannot be called a mixture of manjari-bhava and nayika-bhava, for otherwise everyone in Her group would have to be labeled as such.

Jay Gadai-Gouranga !

First let me congratulate the Webmaster Madhavananda for his dedication to keep up this Site !





According to Srila Bhaktivinode's song Manasa, Deho, Geho:

janaka , janani , doyita , tanoya
prabhu , guru , pati tuhun sarva-moya ( 7 )

father, mother lover, son, Lord, preceptor and husband You are everything to me.

My question: How was possible for Srila Bhaktivinode in his sidha-deha form as kamala-manjari to address Krishna as my "husband and lover" if the manjaris do not have that type of relation with Him ?

Revati

Pati also means master, owner, lord and so forth. Narottama sings in his Prarthana (song 36), "dhana mora nityananda, pati mora gauracandra, prana mora yugala-kisora" -- "Nityananda is my wealth, Gauracandra is my master, Yugala Kishora are my life." He is not saying that Gauracandra is his husband. Someone may argue that indeed he does, in search of support for Gaura-nagari-vada, but this song of Narottama's is clearly not sung in siddhavesa, but rather sadhakavesa. The same applies for this song of Bhaktivinoda's you are quoting. If we were to say that Bhaktivinoda sings this song in manjari-bhava-avesa, how much more we'd have to wonder why he calls Krishna his son?

Srila Narottama Thakura is glorify Them and at the same time is he qualifying his relationship with Them. ?

Srila Narottama is not praying in his siddha-vesa because he is worshiping Nitay with Goura and Radha Krishna ? In other words, if Lord Nityananda is presente, Sri Yugala Kisore will not be completely manifested, if so, why is that ?

He does mention Sri Yugala Kisora, so how it is possible for some one so familyar with the vrajabhasi's mood to distingunshes between his Siddha and Sadakha-vesa ?

They (The Sadhus=Manjaris) are not seeing everything according to their own bhava ?


Hari Saran das

Although words cannot fully transmit the full experience of transcendental rasa, the mahajans have kindly recorded their experiences of relish in the prayers they have left. Prayers by Narottam, Raghunatha Das Goswami, Rupa Goswami, etc. are meant for raganuga sadhakas. As a raganuga sadhakas one performs bhajan internally in the siddha deha and externally in the sadhaka deha. In the siddha deha a raganuga bhakta worships and prayers to Radha-Krsna and Their associates in the mood as a manjari. In the sadhaka deha the devotee worships and prays to Sri Gauranga and His associates in the mood of a sadhaka devotee aspiring to enter the mood and flavors of Vraja bhakti while simultanously desiring to serve Sri Gauranga in Navadwip. As a sadhaka one externally also prays and worships Sri Radha-Krsna as in Murti seva, offering stavas and chanting Hari nama maha mantra, which is the mantra of the names of Radha-Krsna. Meditation on the siddha deha and lilas of Radha-Krsna go hand-in-hand with the external bhajan and mood of a raganuga sadhaka following in the footsteps of the Vrndavan Goswamis.

Highly realized saints exhibit three phases of consciousness.

tina-dazAya mahAprabhu rahena sarva-kAla
antar-dazA, bAhya-dazA, ardha-bAhya Ara
“At all times, Mahaprabhu was in three stages, namely the internal state (antah-dasa), the external state (bahya-dasa) and half-external state (ardha-bahya).” (CC 3.18.78)

In inner absorption, Prabhu would be completely absent from this world, His awareness withdrawn and absorbed in lila. In external awareness, Prabhu would behave in a normal way and relate to the surrounding world as others did. In half-external awareness, these two worlds would become mixed in His perception, causing Him to speak delirious words akin to a madman, addressing His male associates as sakhis, running after objects that did not exist in the realm in which He roamed about.

In his song, Narottama clearly expresses his perception in antar-dasa. The song goes on to relate how the dust of the Vaishnavas' feet is the water in which Narottama bathes, how he is determined to accept the food-remnants of the Vaishnavas and so forth. Yugala Kishora are mentioned as the life and soul of his devotional practice. This song is not a reflection of his thoughts in antar-dasa (complete svarupa-avesa).

There are different kinds of prayers. In explaining vijnapti (praying) among the sixty four bhakti-angas, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu (1.2) lists three varieties of prayers, namely samprarthanatmika (consisting of request), dainya-bodhika (expression of wretchedness) and lalasamayi (filled with longing).

samprArthanAtmikA dainya-bodhikA lAlasAmayI |
ity Adir vividhA dhIraiH kRSNe vijJaptir IritA || 152 ||
“Consisting of request, expression of wretchedness and filled with longing – in these ways the wise offer prayers to Krishna.”

tatra samprArthanAtmikA, yathA pAdme --
yuvatInAM yathA yUni yUnAM ca yuvatau yathA |
mano 'bhiramate tadvan mano 'bhiramatAM tvayi || 153 ||
First samprarthanatmika, as in Padma:

“As the minds of young boys are attracted to young girls, and the minds of young girls are attracted to young boys, similarly let my mind be attracted to you!”

dainya-bodhikA, yathA tatraiva --
mat-tulyo nAsti pApAtmA nAparAdhI ca kazcana |
parihAre 'pi lajjA me kiM brUve puruSottama || 154 ||
Then dainya-bodhika:

“There is no sinful man like me, nor is anyone an offender like me. O Purusottama, I am even ashamed to atone for them!”

lAlasAmayI, yathA zrI-nArada-paJcarAtre --
kadA gambhIrayA vAcA zriyA yukto jagat-pate |
cAmara-vyagra-hastaM mAm evaM kurv iti vakSyasi || 155 ||
Lalasamayi, as in Sri Narada-pancaratra:

“O Lord of the universe, when will I address you with deep and beautiful words, joyfully engaged in fanning you with a camara in my hand?”

yathA vA --
kadAhaM yamunA-tIre nAmAni tava kIrtayan |
udbASpaH puNDarIkAkSa racayiSyAmi tANDavam || 156 ||
Or alternatively:

“When, O lotus-eyed one, will I glorify your names, my eyes filled with tears, wildly dancing on the banks of Yamuna?”

Sripad Narottama kindly presents songs we can adopt in our devotional lives prior to entering full internal absorption and practically dying from this world.