Vraja-vasa and five main limbs of sadhana - Split from "Developing relationships..."

anadi met Ishan das, as he wanted to buy some books by Ananta das baba.
After a while anadi asked Ishan, "Did you have a spurthi?"
"Yes." Replied Ishan.
"Only once?" asked anadi again?
"No, many more times", said Ishan.
Ishan is a nice devotee, and he explained in a simple and powerful way, how one should do bhajan. He likes very much Vilapa Kusumanjali, and he is living for seven years a renounced life in Radha Kunda; now at the feet of siddha Ananta das baba.

First one should renounce the world
and than come in the holy dham
and do (raganuga) bhajan at the feet of guru.

Some say, they belong to a preaching mission, and think this is not right. But a sincerely seeker on the path of self realization, can easily understand that this is the path of the Gosvamis of Vrindavan, the path of the "Saints of Vraja".

Will you follow this example in the end- renounce this material world, go to Radha-kunda, do raganuga bhakti at the feet of Sri Ananta das Babaji Maharaja and in this way perfect your bhajan?

anadi must do it, because there is no other way, it may be siddha Ananta das Baba or another siddha baba, who knows?
Some greed for sakhi bhava must be there ...and grow.
He must hear more about the sakhis and their sports with kRSNa (SB10.33.39)

vikrīḍitaḿ vraja-vadhūbhir idaḿ ca viṣṇoḥ
śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
bhaktiḿ parāḿ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaḿ
hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ

I belong to a preaching mission and I don't think that above is not right. But not all of the Gosvamis of Vrindavan did like this. Some went to preach. Like Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and their followers. It is our own relative choice/taste and arrangement of Sri Krishna's mercy to be following one path of the "Saints of Vraja" or the other. They are inconceivably simultaneously same and different.

According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.33.39):

vikrīḍitaḿ vraja-vadhūbhir idaḿ ca viṣṇoḥ
śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
bhaktiḿ parāḿ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaḿ
hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ

"He who faithfully hears about the dealings between Lord Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rāsa dance and he who describes these activities attain to the perfectional stage of devotional service and simultaneously lose material, lusty desires."

Come on Anadi Krishna Das, go for it, it's the only way, don't listen to anybody else, jump into Radha-kunda bhakti and never come out again!

Very good.
The principle is : first bhajana.
If you read "The saints of Vraja" you will see that many other saints have preached, not only BSST and his father.
anadi would personally prefer "siddha missions" instead of professional preaching missions which go under the heading: "Go and distribute my books."
Not that it won't be good... it is very good ...for some... for some time, but not for all and all the time.
anadi had seen record distributors, and preachers complaining with body (by their activities), minds and words at some point in their life, that they neglected their bhajan.
The principle is : first bhajana.

First one should renounce the world
and than come in the holy dham
and do (raganuga) bhajan at the feet of guru...some day.


It sounds veeery enticing!

I agree.


I didn't see them, but I believe you and I agree.


Yes.

Do you agree that "Spiritual institution" or "Math" where Sri Rupanuga Gaudiya Guru - Gauranga and Radha Krishna are being purely loved is as good as Radha Kund Dham manifested in this world?

dandavat,

Sorry,
anadi does not agree with it, even if you added "being purely loved ".

There is no substitute for

sadhu sanga
nama kritana
bhagavat shranvan
mathura vasa - residing in the holy dham
Shri murtira shradaya sevan

Please learn the last three verses from Upadeshamrita.
After that this topic regarding the residence, and service rendered to RAdha-Kundha, will be illuminated.

It is not that these 5 items need to be ALL practised. After listing these 5 most important items, Srila Rupa Gosvami says that any of them, if practised without the other 4, will lead to prema siddhi. Furthermore Jiva Gosvami has repeatedly commented on such Brajavasa statements that if one is unable to live in Vraja physically then one can reside there mentally. If Vrajavasa were compulsory and indispensible 99.99 % of all GV sadhakas would be chanceless!

Yes, this is "Amar mon Vrindavan" principle. It can also be "Amar mon Radha Kund".

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Prabodhananda Sarasvati has also said in Radharasa Sudhanidhi (9) - vrindatavim anusara pranayena cetah! " Oh mind! Follow Vrindavan with love!" cetah means mind or consciousness, not necessarily the body.

Dear advaitadas
Dandavat

You said

Anadi does not belive that the quote would support the idea, that one doesn’t need to reside in the dham.
Such a conclusion seems courageous, and for some maybe ridiculous.

If one remembers the ABC of Gaudiya-bhakti, given by Rupa Gosvami, in his Upadeshamrita, in the 8-th sloka he gives the essence of all advice.
I know advaitadas know it very well, but for anAdi, here it is again:

tan-nAma-rUpa-caritAdi-sukIrtanAnu-
smRtyoH krameNa rasanA-manasi niyojya
tiSThan vraje tad-anurAgi-janAnugAmi
kAlaM nayed akhilam ity upadeza-sAram

One should live in Vraja tiSThan vraje
Following the eternal residents of Vraja –jana- anugAmi
who possess inherent spontaneous love for Sri KRSNa - anurAgi,
and one should utilise all his time - kAlaM nayed
by sequentially engaging the tongue and the mind - krameNa rasanA-manasi
in meticulous chanting and remembrance of KRSN’s names, form, qualities and pastimes - tan-nAma-rUpa-caritAdi-sukirtanAnu-. smRtyoH
This is the essence of all instruction - akhilam ity upadeza-sAram.

And if one has developed love for the dham, he will want to be there, not being separated from
It. This is one of the qualities of a sadhaka as described in Bhakti-rasamRta-sindhu(1.3.25.6)

kSAntir avyartha-kAlatvaM
viraktir mAna-zUnyatA
AzA-bandhaH samutkaNThA
nAma-gAne sadA-ruciH
Asaktis tad-guNAkhyAne
prItis tad vasati-sthale
ity Adayo ’nubhAvAH syur
jAta-bhavANkure jane

anadi belive that the all the gaudiya-vaishnava saints did their bhajan in the holy dham.

If one thinks that one has the power to call the dham in his mind and live there, he must be a siddha, and still the siddha will prefer to live in the dham, even if one might say, a siddha lives in another world, in the aprakrit dham, still …
Raghunatha Gosvamipada would prefer to stay in the dham an hear whatever the vrajavasi would talk, instead of being somewhere else where… would be even spoken lila katha.

Dear Anadi, there is a misunderstanding here. I didnt suggest one should not live in the dhama at all. Please look at my previous posts again. "'cetah' really means 'consciousness'." "Most devotees would be chanceless if living in Vraja would be compulsory." "Jiva Gosvami commented on Rupa Gosvami's statements of Vrajabas that one should live there mentally if physical presence is not possible." I am afraid I cant retract a syllable of what I said. This is the 2nd and last time I repeat myself here though. If you want to live in Vraja with all the 'siddha vairagis' I have no objection against that. pritis tad vasati sthale means love for the abode of Krishna, that is all. That can be by proxy too. Not all acaryas have lived in Vraja - Mahaprabhu, Nitai and Advaita went there just once, Ramananda Ray, Gadadhara Pandit and Haridas Thakur never went there at all. One need not be a siddha to call Vraja to mind though I admit one must have lived there for a considerable amount of time in order to be able to recollect it elsewhere.....

On Vraja-vasa both mentally and physically

While Sri Jiva (and following him, Vishwanath Chakravartipad) does say in his Durgama-samgamani (1.2.294) that in the absence of zarIrika-vraja-vAsa one may also do the same within the mind, it doesn't mean that the two are equally excellent options, or that one would yield an equal fruit as rapidly as the other. "In the absence of ghee, let us cook in oil" and "in the absence of honey, let us sweeten with sugar" -- following this logic, the statement is properly understood.

If a sadhaka honestly has no means for the better option, then he may settle for the lesser option for the time being, and there is no fault in that. However, if the sadhaka does not strive to attain the higher standard, even if the means for the same would realistically be within his reach, that will certainly prove to be an obstacle on his path of bhajan.

Progress in bhajan means increased familiarity with, and indeed yearning to spend all of one's time, at the places of the pastimes of Radha and Krishna. Granted, enrapt in bhajan, we witness the aprakaTa-dhAma within, while the dRzyamAna-prakAza is where you'll arrive on pilgrimage, but the countless echos of the prakaTa-lIlA of the ages bygone, and indeed the melodies of the ongoing aSTakAla-lIlA are more vibrant in the visible Vraja than they are anywhere else.

Anuragi-sadhakas yearning for prema-siddhi and sakshat-seva -- within this very lifetime -- have sought shelter of Vraja-dham since the days of the Goswamis of Vraja. While it is true that many of Mahaprabhu's companions did not stay in Vraja for extended periods of time (for an obvious reason: tumi yAhAn, sei vRndAvan), Rupa-Sanatana have been placed as the foremost role-models for us, the two who are famous for fulfilling the desires of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in this world.

Does not the contemplation of Vraja-lila, and do not the countless stava and stuti we read in praise of Vraja, induce a desire for Vraja-vasa in every meaningful manner within our hearts? Where is that intelligent person, then, who would not yearn to take shelter of Vraja-dham with both his body and his mind, perfecting his bhajan in the company of the rasika-devotees who have sought refuge of the holy land?

On the five limbs of devotion and obstacles on the path

As far as the power of any one of the five main facets of bhajan in awakening bhava goes, yes -- that is certainly the glory and power of each one of them. This statement has been made to highlight their might. The potency is there, and the mahajans of the past have vividly demonstrated the potential of the individual limbs of navadha-bhakti.

However, if we were to for example choose to only practice the limb of bhagavat-shravan, and would neglect the instruction of Sriman Mahaprabhu with regards to chanting a lakh of Names daily, would that not be a shortcoming that would halt our advancement towards prema-siddhi? Or, if we were to disregard the practice of archan in favor of chanting the Names alone, would that not be in disobedience with the prescriptions of the Goswamis?

All five have been described as practices one should adopt in one's quest for prema-siddhi. Now, one may say that the ideal seen in the example of the past mahajans is not something we can put into practice ourselves. After all, nowadays we have so many obstacles on the path; so many concerns we need to tend to, so many conveniences we need to foster. Fine, and so be it -- but a compromized sadhana will not yield sadhana-siddhi. The state of siddhi is described (2.1.280) as the stage where obstacles from the path have been far removed, and one is wholesomely engaged in acts for Krishna. Would an intelligent person not, therefore, endeavor to remove the said obstacles (anarthas) from the path beginning from the very moment of hearing of its importance?

Your theory needs corroborration, that might be hard to find. Caitanya Caritamrita lists great devotees that attained perfection by practising just one of the items of the navadha bhakti, let alone the 5-fold path of Rupa. eka anga sadhe, keho sadhe bahu ange (CC 2.22.129) "Some reach perfection through one limb, others through many." Not that I think that everyone should just go ahead and only hear or chant or remember. tara madhye sarva srestha nama sankirtan (CC) Mahaprabhu said: "Of all the 9 types of bhakti, nama sankirtan is the greatest and stands out above the other items". That should never be neglected or dropped......

I wasnt making my objections based on most devotees' lack of time or money for coming to Vraja, but on most devotees' lack of qualification to live there 24/7. There are Gurus who encourage all their disciples, no matter how fallen and weak, to live in Vraja 24/7, which resulted and still results in the most appalling behaviour. That is certainly an aparadha to the holy dhama. And then there is Mahaprabhu's cautions to Jagadananda Pandit, telling him not to stay too long in Vraja and not to hang out with the Brajabasis. That is one level, the other level is that of Rupa and Raghunatha. When one reaches their level, living in Vraja 24/7 is quite another thing than the way most sadhakas do it now. And then I could think of a few more pressing reasons why it is better not to stay in Vraja 24/7 when immature....

I was given to understand that where ever there is a divine image or a copy of the Bhagavata or devotees hearing, singing etc., nama rupa guna and lila, the lord Krsna always stays there, as in;

nAhaM vasAmi vaikuNThe
yoginAm hRdaye na ca/
mad-bhaktAh yatra gAyanti
tatra tisThAmi nArada//

O Narada! I do not in Vaikuntha dwell,
nor in the hearts of contemplative yogis,
but where ever my voteries sing (my glory),
that's the place,indeed, where I abide.

Also don't you think some of what is said about Dhama Mahatmya is attributable to arthavAd or hyperbole?

These words also seem to leave so many "chanceless" as you put it earlier. From reading the durgama-saGgaminI and the bhakti-sAra-pradarzinI on BRS 1.2.294-- kuryAdvAsaM braje sadA, I didn't get the impression that one must spend a great deal of time physically in Braj to reside there successfully in one's mind. I thought that the main basis for residing mentally in Braj came from hearing Vraja-rasa lIlA kathA and doing it's smaraNa.

Vishwanath Chakravartipad divides the various facets of bhakti-sadhana to angas and angis in his Raga-vartma-chandrika, noting that while one may not engage in some of the angas of bhakti-sadhana and that there is no shortcoming in that, the angis, which he presents as zravanotkIrtanAdIni, must certainly be engaged in, and a lack thereof would be a fault. He then cites the zruti-smRti-purANAdi-paJcarAtra vidhiM vinA shloka, indicating that archan must also be engaged in (as why would Pancharatra be otherwise mentioned). Sadhu-sanga has been noted as a mukhya-anga that should be engaged in (CC 2.22.83, etc.). Vraja-vasa has also been presented in a great many places as something that should be done, as has been quoted. Whether it's done in the mind or physically, it is clear that somehow it should be done, or otherwise there'll be a shortcoming in one's devotional practice. Neglecting any of the five main angas (or angis) would be a shortcoming regardless of their individual might.

I should add that mere bodily residence in Vraja without living there in the mind is also in disregard of Mahaprabhu's instructions:



There is little point in either mAnasika-vAsa or zarIrika-vAsa in the dRzyamAna-prakAza of Vraja if the aspect of mAnasi-sevA is not given due attention. The whole point of the presence of the dRzyamAna-prakAza is to lead us to the aprakaTa-dhAma, to bring before our heart's eyes the pastimes therein. To only live in Vraja physically without the mind's truly seeking refuge there is to chew on the leaf-plate on which the delicious meal is being served, it is the work of a fool.

I heartily agree with you, Advaitadas, regarding eligibility for living in Vraja. Not everyone is fit for that, and many will make a mess of it. I am ashamed of many things I see despite having no personal relationship with any of it (and staying afar of it at that), I am ashamed on behalf of our tradition. Though, under proper guidance and with a befitting desire, even unqualified people can quickly become qualified. It is a matter of someone wishing to give the guidance and someone wishing to receive it. Such a situation is rare indeed, as most people are not very enthusiastic for anugata-bhajan, but rather enjoy the freedom of following the spontaneous flow of their mano-vRtti.

durgama sangamani - samarthye sati vraje sri nanda-vrajavasa-sthane vrndavanadau sarirena vasam kuryat tad abhave manasapityarthah - Jiva Gosvami's tika - "If capable, live physically in Nanda Vraja Vrindavan, and if not then live there mentally." Visvanatha Cakravartipada repeats that tika.

I think that is wholly compatible with what I said. That does not contradict what you said, dear Sakhicaran. If you are not able to physically live there for a considerable time the Dhama will certainly be merciful to a sincere sadhaka and reveal itself in his/her mind in America, Europe or Australia. It's a two-edged knife though - living in Braj can be very harmful to one's bhakti-lata if one seriously starts contemplating the conduct of many of its residents. And here I beg to refer to Mahaprabhu's words of caution to Jagadananda Pandit.

Mahaprabhu's exact words to Jagadananda read as follows (CC 3.13.36-40):




While many purports have been written on why Mahaprabhu called for Jagadananda to return quickly, an earlier verse concerning Jagadananda's earlier attempts to leave for Vrindavan seems to have been overlooked (CC 3.13.25):



This certainly weighs in on why Prabhu said to Jagadananda, zIghra Asiha, though his temperamental nature is undoubtedly a factor as well. (It is, in fact, featured shortly before this episode in the famous story of his arranging for a pillow and beddings for Prabhu.)

What becomes highlighted in Mahaprabhu's advice is the need to stay in Vraja whilst keeping the company of devotee(s) who are living there and are familiar with the sacred places as well as the local ways. In their company and under their guidance, staying in Vraja -- whether for a short time or for extended periods of time -- will be shielded and bear success, no doubt.

I heartily agree on Advaitadasa's warning on contemplating the behavior of the residents of Vraja, whether locals or Bengalis living therein. As a general matter of caution, one should avoid contemplating and discussing the behavior and flaws of others -- whether in Vraja or otherwise -- so as to not bring about ruination in one's life of bhajan. I have also fallen victim to that a good many times in the past. When one feels its ill effects on bhajan, one will naturally seek to rectify one's behavior and remain focused on one's own bhajan instead of allowing the mind to roam hither and thither in the business of everyone else. The world is like the road to Vrindavan; Mahaprabhu warned Jagadananda (CC 3.13.34-35):



Thus, all the way up to realizing the perils of the material world and embarking on a spiritual quest, represented by Varanasi, the blessed abode of the Advaitins, one may roam independently. Embarking on the road to Vrindavan, one should proceed with great caution, shielding one's precious gems of bhajan in the company of Mahaprabhu's Kshatriyas (Manah-siksha 5, 7):

I was just rereading the bio of your guruji, Sri Sadhu Baba. Though having read it before, the points you mention here stood out to me this time. He is wise in his instruction to be cautious in one's attempt to reside in Vraja. It is far too easy to create aparadha which is really the only thing that can "steal" one's bhakti. I liked this quote he provided a great deal...bhAveSu vidyate deva na maThe na ca mandire, "The Lord dwells in one’s feelings, not in monasteries and temples."

Just a note on the quotation from CC. The line tAG sabAra AcAra ceSTA laite nAribA has been rendered, you are not qualified for their behaviour and endevours, but really I don't think qualified is implied, but simply, for reasons best known to Gora prabhu, you are not to adopt their customs and manners.
Remember this is five hundred years ago nearly, before the degrading influences that now prevail were a consideration. Such as planes, trains automobiles, mlecchas taking up the duties of the twice-born castes etc., etc., etc.

Yes and it is very likely that the morale of the residents of Vraja - Bengalis, Brajabasis and now also foreigners - is now degraded compared to the time the Gosvamis wrote their encouraging eulogies of living 24/7 in Vraja.

About shighro asiho quoted by Madhava, well some say that Jagadananda is Satyabhama and therefore very dear to Mahaprabhu (Krsna), who therefore didnt want to be without him/her - but what about the Gosvamis? They were the dearmost manjaris! Mahaprabhu wouldnt be able to live without them at all, yet he despatched them to Vraja, never to return. We believe that though Jagadananda is of course a nitya siddha parshad, he was used as a role model here for that class of devotees who had better not stay too long in Vraja, while the Gosvamis were used as role models for those who do qualify. That qualification is described in the CC as 'sleeping under a different tree every night, drinking only a cup of butter milk in the evening, around-the-clock bhajan, etc.'. Unfortunately that is a very, very far cry from the business conducted by most residents of Vraja nowadays.

Sri Prahlada to his class mates;
na hyacyutaM prINayate bahvAyAso'surAtmajAh/
AtmatvAt sarvabhutAnAM siddhatvAdiha sarvatah//

O children of the Asruras! It is not at all difficult
to please Acyuta ( the imperishable lord Narayana).
For he is the innermost beloved self in all beings,
and can be communed with anywhere.

Bhag. 7/6/19

While I believe saying that the qualification for Vraja-vasa is to take one cup of buttermilk at evening and sleep under a different tree every night is not an accurate portrayal of the overall lives of the Goswamis, I do agree on the gist of it, which is to put bhajan on the forefront of one's life in Vraja.

The Goswamis evidently needed a library with a mass of books to collect all the works they did, and their followers, following their wishes, took care of a grand number of both mobile and immobile assets --- books, libraries, temples, what have you --- all of which require time and resources to maintain. If none of that had been undertaken, I believe it would have fallen under Rupa Goswami's definition of phalgu-vairAgya (prApaJcikatayA buddhyA hari-sambandhi-vastunaH), disregarding the proper application of the said assets. Indeed, we would not know of Vrindavan with all of its restored lila-sthalis, had it not been for both the discovery and the preservation of the said places.

The bottom line being, if one comes to Thakur's abode, one should do Thakur's work. One should come to Vraja with a sincere heart and eagerness for bhajan. If something needs to be done for one's sustenance, then so be it -- it is certainly not unholy to work to arrange for one's maintenance and for the service of Thakurji. As long as the balance isn't tipped in favor of economical pursuits and selfish endeavors, they must remain subservient to a life of devotional endeavor. Whether in Vraja or anywhere else for that matter.

. . .

Some say that Jagadananda is Satyabhama, indeed. (Drawing from GGD 51: satyabhAmA prakAzo'pi jagadAnanda-paNDitaH.) I do not see how that is connected with the dearness issue, though -- I've never heard an argument drawn from that in relation to the zIghra Asiha statement.

If Jagadananda is to be understood as a role model, then let us examine his character a bit deeper to have a better understanding of the teaching being given. Would you like to submit a stereotype not-for-vrajavasa character based on Jagadananda's traits to help us take advantage of the lesson at hand?

. . .

I strongly disagree on the suggestion that the current morale of the residents of the dham or the environmental changes therein would have any effect on whether the Goswamis would have recommended Vraja-vasa with such fervor. I'd hate to think that recommendations on such integral aspects of sadhana would be subject to the flux of the world and might therefore become outdated or irrelevant. What then, perhaps next the chanting of mantras shall be out of vogue, and whatever shall we do then with our malas, have them hanging round our necks with a stylish hippy look?

The dRzyamAna-prakAza of the dham is always covered. It is utopian to assume it was just like the aprakaTa-dhAma a few hundred years back. Who can possibly fathom the appearance of the aprakaTa-dhAma even within the mind, what to speak of actually seeing it with these eyes! A degree of aropana, super-imposition of narrations heard over the places beheld, will always take place, whether now or a few centuries back. The lila-sthalis will always remain a powerful uddipan for remembering the lila when toured in the company of sadhus, whether today or a thousand years into the future.

I agree that "you are not to adopt their customs and manners" reads a whole lot better than what I had Mahaprabhu say. Thank you for the note, I edited my post to reflect that.

Well, I must say, my stay in Radha kunda was somewhat marred by the apparent poverty and delapadated state of old architecturally significant structures and buildings, like nobody cares. Then I thought, as I had been oft cautioned, is it wrong for me to give heed to horrors of child poverty, widows thrown out from Bengal and sent to Vraja to beg would they or no; is it an offence to be disgusted by the heaps of refuse on the landing of Lalita Kunda? Some say it's all a test of sincerity, some that it's all subjective and that you see only a false representation due to some inadiquicey of your own..

The thing with Vraja basa as an anga of bhakti sadhana is that it is apparently restrictive which the others are not.
The other angas can be practised anywhere, whereas Vraja basa can obviously only be done in Vraja. I would not have thought mentally residing there a lesser option, should anyone actually be able to do it, rather superior if anything. But that's all arguable no doubt.

Another gem from Sri Rupa's Padyavali, this one by reverend Sridhara Swami.

tatraiva gangA yamunA ca tatra
godAvarI tatra sarasvatI ca/
sarvANi tIrthAni vasanti tatra
yatrAcyutodAra-kathA-prasangah//

Wherever the glad tidings of the noble deeds of Acyuta take place,
there indeed are the Ganga and Yamuna, there are the Godavari
and Sarasvati; nay, there all the holy and sacred tirthas abide.

Padyavali 44