Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.
The Hidden Path - Bhajan of the grhasta
DharmaChakra - Sat, 05 Nov 2005 03:32:57 +0530
In a
recent thread Sakhicharan-ji posted this quote, attributed to Haribolananda Thakur
QUOTE(Haribolananda Thakur)
No asrama is better than grhasta-asrama. It is good to remain in the household and do bhajan secretly. The mango which is hidden among the leaves quickly ripens, while the mango exposed will meet with the beaks of birds and spoil.
I also remember Bhaktivinode Thakura having Mahaprabhu state something similar to Haridas Thakura in his Harinama-cintamani. (There refered to as keeping bhajan 'hidden' if I remember correctly - I don't have a copy handy) Anyone have any thoughts on what exactly is meant by 'secret' or 'hidden'? How it plays out in our theology? Wearing tilaka and other various Vaishnava accoutrements seems to make a very strong outward statement of one's religious sentement...
Kshamabuddhi - Sat, 05 Nov 2005 03:47:32 +0530
the defect I see in the quote of Haribolananda Thakur is that in the Bhagavat wisdom it is said that when the bird pecks at the fruit the fruit ripens faster.
Thus, we have the very name and concept of Sukadeva Goswami. He was called Sukadeva because just as the mango becomes ripened quickly after the bird pecks at the fruit, the Bhagavatam became even sweeter after it was tasted by Sukadeva Goswami.
Practically speaking, I have also noticed that the peaches on the trees in my back yard ripen quicker after a bird pecks on them. A white peach that has been tasted by a bird ripens quicker than the ones untouched by the birds.
Sakhicharan - Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:07:27 +0530
QUOTE(DharmaChakra @ Nov 4 2005, 04:02 PM)
In a
recent thread Sakhicharan-ji posted this quote, attributed to Haribolananda Thakur
QUOTE(Haribolananda Thakur)
No asrama is better than grhasta-asrama. It is good to remain in the household and do bhajan secretly. The mango which is hidden among the leaves quickly ripens, while the mango exposed will meet with the beaks of birds and spoil.
I also remember Bhaktivinode Thakura having Mahaprabhu state something similar to Haridas Thakura in his Harinama-cintamani. (There refered to as keeping bhajan 'hidden' if I remember correctly - I don't have a copy handy) Anyone have any thoughts on what exactly is meant by 'secret' or 'hidden'? How it plays out in our theology? Wearing tilaka and other various Vaishnava accoutrements seems to make a very strong outward statement of one's religious sentement...
This can easily make for an interesting topic of discussion. I think the obvious meaning in Haribolananda Thakur's words is that if one adopts the vesh of a renunciate one will immediately be under scrutiny and probably come up against those who may wish to see one break ones vows.
In my mind things work best in pairs if you can come up with the right match, of course. I am reminded now of Sri Vijaya Krishna Gosvami and his wife Srimati Yogamaya Devi and the way they interacted in their bhajan life.
Sakhicharan - Sat, 05 Nov 2005 07:46:23 +0530
You can read what I referred to in regard to the interaction of Sri Vijaya Krishna Goswami and Srimati Yogamaya Devi
with just a click.
Madhava - Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:44:18 +0530
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Nov 4 2005, 11:17 PM)
The defect I see in the quote of Haribolananda Thakur is that in the Bhagavat wisdom it is said that when the bird pecks at the fruit the fruit ripens faster.
One or two pecks may be just fine. However, have a mango pecked by twenty parrots and there you have it.
This is why many renounced sadhus wish to remain hidden, too. One "peck" too many will make the ego grow, pratistha awakens and the path of bhajan is closed. In the growing presence of the false ego, the real ego -- the svarupa -- becomes covered.
Kshamabuddhi - Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:46:43 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Nov 6 2005, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Nov 4 2005, 11:17 PM)
The defect I see in the quote of Haribolananda Thakur is that in the Bhagavat wisdom it is said that when the bird pecks at the fruit the fruit ripens faster.
One or two pecks may be just fine. However, have a mango pecked by twenty parrots and there you have it.
This is why many renounced sadhus wish to remain hidden, too. One "peck" too many will make the ego grow, pratistha awakens and the path of bhajan is closed. In the growing presence of the false ego, the real ego -- the svarupa -- becomes covered.
But, the peculiar thing about birds is that they "eat like birds"; they only take one or two pecks and then they leave. It is also peculiar that when a bird pecks on the fruit that another bird does not like to come along and peck on the same fruit.
Another bird will find an unpecked fruit and take his peck from there. I guess birds are a little particular in that they do not like to eat after each other. They will try to find an unpecked fruit to taste. Then they go off to find a nice juicy worm or grasshopper to eat. The fruit is just an appetizer. The birds do not gorge on the fruit. They just taste it and then move on to the main course; the worm or bug.
thus, Sukadeva made the Bhagavat sweeter by tasting it and the successor acharyas simply try to taste the ripened fruit that was sweetened by the tasting of Srila Sukadeva Goswami. Once the fruit has been ripened by the pecking of the parrot, it becomes fully ripe and anyone that tastes the fruit after that is simply enjoying the remnants of the parrot that caused the fruit to fully ripen.
Sakhicharan - Mon, 07 Nov 2005 07:32:27 +0530
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Nov 6 2005, 01:16 PM)
QUOTE(Madhava @ Nov 6 2005, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Nov 4 2005, 11:17 PM)
The defect I see in the quote of Haribolananda Thakur is that in the Bhagavat wisdom it is said that when the bird pecks at the fruit the fruit ripens faster
One or two pecks may be just fine. However, have a mango pecked by twenty parrots and there you have it.This is why many renounced sadhus wish to remain hidden, too. One "peck" too many will make the ego grow, pratistha awakens and the path of bhajan is closed. In the growing presence of the false ego, the real ego -- the svarupa -- becomes covered.
But, the peculiar thing about birds is that they "eat like birds"; they only take one or two pecks and then they leave. It is also peculiar that when a bird pecks on the fruit that another bird does not like to come along and peck on the same fruit. Another bird will find an unpecked fruit and take his peck from there. I guess birds are a little particular in that they do not like to eat after each other. They will try to find an unpecked fruit to taste. Then they go off to find a nice juicy worm or grasshopper to eat.
It appears to me that you spend just a wee bit more time birdwatching than most...
Kshamabuddhi - Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:10:29 +0530
QUOTE(Sakhicharan @ Nov 7 2005, 02:02 AM)
It appears to me that you spend a wee bit more time birdwatching than most...
well, actually, I don't really do any birdwatching. I learned this watching the peaches ripen on the trees in the back yard. so, I guess you could call me a fruit-watcher - not a bird watcher.
Kulapavana - Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:21:30 +0530
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Nov 6 2005, 03:16 PM)
But, the peculiar thing about birds is that they "eat like birds"; they only take one or two pecks and then they leave. It is also peculiar that when a bird pecks on the fruit that another bird does not like to come along and peck on the same fruit.
Another bird will find an unpecked fruit and take his peck from there. I guess birds are a little particular in that they do not like to eat after each other. They will try to find an unpecked fruit to taste. Then they go off to find a nice juicy worm or grasshopper to eat. The fruit is just an appetizer. The birds do not gorge on the fruit. They just taste it and then move on to the main course; the worm or bug.
you must live in some very special place, prabhuji.... where I live birds will eat
all the cherries and
all the grapes I can grow - one peck at a time...
and the cardinals are the biggest rascals! I have a great fondness for birds of prey now, as without them I would never be able to taste the fruit I grow...
such poetic examples of gentle animal behavior as you (and others) quote are probably just idealized images, or they have little truth to them in the Age of Kali...
Kshamabuddhi - Tue, 08 Nov 2005 01:42:01 +0530
QUOTE(Kulapavana @ Nov 7 2005, 01:51 PM)
you must live in some very special place, prabhuji.... where I live birds will eat
all the cherries and
all the grapes I can grow - one peck at a time...
and the cardinals are the biggest rascals! I have a great fondness for birds of prey now, as without them I would never be able to taste the fruit I grow...
such poetic examples of gentle animal behavior as you (and others) quote are probably just idealized images, or they have little truth to them in the Age of Kali...
This is starting to get a little off topic, so I apologize to the moderators for the diversion. Certainly, my experience, with watching the peaches ripen on the peach trees, is not any universal truth about birds and their eating habits. Mainly, I was taking some poetic license there and the real esoteric meaning of my example was to portray how successor acharyas have not really improved or changed the Bhagavatam since it was brought to full fruition through the tasting and subsequent speaking of Srila Sukadeva Goswami.
Even when a modern acharya presented it in English he was simply sharing the fully ripened fruit of the Bhagavatam as it was given by Srila Sukadeva Goswami.
He was not attempting to sweeten an already ripened fruit.