Be Here Now, or Escape from Alcatraz? - What is reality?

Where is the balance between be here now(Ram Das), and Krishna-smaranam?
Is it possilbe that some people use "remembering Krishna" as an excuse as to why they do not deal with practical issues of living the life we have and the responsibilities of being embodied with certain karmas?
Is "remembering Krishna" many times just an escape mechanism we use to forget about the responsibilities and problems we have in this body and this life?

What is the difference between REAL Krishna-smaranam and using Krishna as an excuse to forget about the inevitable and inesacapable responsibilities we must eventually work out in this life?

Is remembering Krishna at the expense of our worldly responsibilities just another cop-out for weak-minded people who cannot face the reality of life in the material world?

Is there a difference between real krishna-smaranam and whimsicaly using Krishna-smaranam as a cop-out for ignoring the Karmas that we must work out in this lifetime?

What do you think the meaning of kRSNa smaraNa is? You said REAL Krishna-smaranam. So that in itself makes me wonder how you understand the term smaraNaM.

There are five stages of smaraNa. The first comprises only a slight remembrance of zrI kRSNa's nAma, rUpa, guNa, and lIlA. The second stage is known as dhAraNa and there ones mind is withdrawn from all sensual thoughts and is primarily fixed on lIlA. The third stage, known as dhyAna involves in-depth meditation on kRSNa's nAma, rUpa, guNa, and lIlA. Then dhruvAnusmRti follows in which ones remembrance flows constantly like a river of amRta. Then samAdhi, which is when the object of your contemplation is the only thing manifested in your heart.

It may be that you are really referring to the disinterest and "laziness" that naturally occurs in the heart of a serious sadhaka during her practice of vraja-rasa upAsanA in regard to this mundane world and all things related to it. In what other way would you possibly suggest to contend with your "karmas" than zravaNaM kIrtanaM viSNoH smaraNaM?

I guess I am kinda old fashioned. I figure that, as long as we have to play the role, we might as well go ahead and do it nicely. I don't much appreciate any lazy approach to worldy duties. Either we do them nicely with enthusiasm or we get the hell out. It seems to me that Krishna can be seen everywhere - not just in bhajan.
If one can see Krishna everywhere, then we should always be excited to do our duties. Being lazy in any aspect of life is to fail to see Krishna there.
No?

May I say that I see both points as very necessary to proper sadhana and dharma.

On the one hand, proper execution of our duties in life can be seen as practice for future sadhanas and difficulties as our spiritual life progresses. ex: not hating the guy on the road who cuts you off can help with not making vaisnava ninda to the bhakta who interferes with your bhajan.

On the other hand, I have heard it said that shraddha means that you are convinced that by serving RadhaKrishna, all your duties and needs materially and spiritually are totally fulfilled.

Let the medicine fit the patient.
Jay Radhe!

No one is advocating that one should be lazy and irresponsible. It is just that after one has acquired some taste for bhajan then all worldy talks and affairs become boring and unbearable to the sadhaka. You seem to be placing more emphasis on worldly dharmas than on bhajan. How can you just go and say that Krishna can be seen everywhere and not just in bhajan? This is a flawed idea. He is not equally present everywhere. He is certainly not manifested to the same degree in the checkout line of your gas station as He is in Braj while rAgAnugIya rasika bhaktas are performing lIlA kIrtan.

I would rather think that if we are really seeing Krishna everywhere how could we even be aware of our duties? We would be running toward Braj shouting, "O Radhe! O Vishake! O Sakhigan! Ayi Anangaji!" and crying...while we leave our duties and so-called friends here crying for us.

You said you might as well play your role nicely...since you are a devotee of Radha-Krishna isn't your role to do Their bhajan? It really seems to me that you are embracing this tasteless mundane life.

I think Kshamabuddhiji has asked an excellent question. I would be especially interested in hearing Jagatji's response to this.

He initially asked 6 questions...which one(s) in particular do you find to be excellent?

I was thinking of his overall message; is contemplation of Krishna-lila an escape from "reality"?

It's an interesting question, psychologically speaking. The practical applications of this in our lives, as well as detemining what exactly "reality" is; this one or that one?

I don't think that KB actually intended that meaning...not an escape from reality, but as an excuse used by some who are having difficulty functioning in this material sphere while practising bhakti. It certainly is a tough task to harmonize ones pursuits in devotional life with what seems to be only opposition from the "outside world" if you will.
Caitanya Vaisnavism is certainly an extreme form of religion...it is such a high thing and to imbibe it, well...it ain't always easy.

This verse comes to mind...

Radhe Radhe!



By not dealing with the practical issues of material life and the "karma-stuff", the mind will never be at ease for doing smaran. As long as one uses the "escape-road" bhajan will not be of much value.



Like above, avoiding problems and responsibilities, I find it hard to believe that such a person can sit down with a peaceful heart and mind and can actually do smaran.
For remembering Krishna, the heart must be pure and the mind totally peaceful
( here is where I FAIL!), and by running on escape-function, who will be fit for that?



Those who are engaged in remembering Krishna (doing smaran) will never neglect those duties.
When I was at Sri Radhakunda, I saw my gurudeva, Srila Ananta das Babaji, dealing with a lot of such responsibilities.
What I found extremely amazing was HOW he did it. He did all things perfectly and I saw him totally focused on the "matter" at hand. Like sitting outside, writing letters, handling festival-planning-stuff, receiving visitors,...always gentle and focused, with an inner power unknown to me.

I had the feeling that for such elevated souls, there is no more black and white stuff, they see Krishna and His energy (energies) in everything.

Using "smaran" for escaping the material world will end in nothing substantial.

To actually do smaran and to actually begin with the real remembering one should already be free from tough material entanglement and up until then, speaking for myself, the sadhaka slowly purifies his existence and starts remembering Krishna (smaran) in little steps and pieces.

My mind is too crazy and I only have some minutely glimpses of some remembering...


PS:
To able to remember Krishna one needs the mercy of Sri Guru, Sri Vaishnava and Sri Krishna. A revelation can never be forced.
Why should such a revelation, such an insight in the pastimes occur to someone who more or less cheats himself, others and finally the Lord...

I think what I was trying to say was that the devotional service of Sri Hari and especially the more traditional standards is actually 180 degrees diametrically opposed to everything that modern life in the western world stands for. It just seems like such an illogical proposition that Bhakti-culture can be practically introduced into the workaday lives of modern people.
Especially, it seems like an absurd proposition outside the framework of a sub-cultural institution or village. Maybe that is why the original international movement of Krishna-bhakti was attempted to be established as a sub-culture, a microcosm that was actually somewhat set apart from ordinary society.

Practically speaking, is it really practical to propose that people can just adopt the bhakti culture into the hectic, overworked modern society without a functional sub-culture to foster practice? I don't think it is practical for the most part, yet there are always some exceptions.

Goloka might be reality in Goloka, but here on Earth the reality is a hard struggle for existence.
That is why I am saying that seeing Krishna everywhere is a lot more practical that seeing Krishna only in sanga with sadhus in the Dhams.

I agree with you on all your points here except for the very last sentence because that gives me the impression of doing something halfway and that is soooo not my nature. It can certainly be a difficult and painful struggle trying to practice raga bhajan while living the lifestyles that we are faced with in the West. I know I don't want to reside in any institution. The best answer I can come up with was recently echoed by Minaji in another thread...

I know of one example personally of a couple that are so very alike in mind materially and spiritually. They both have bhajan as their first priority and this line by zrI rUpa... sajAtIyAzayasnigdha-zrI bhagavad-bhakta-saNgo describes them well. I think all too often what happens is that one partner is more materialistic than the other or their devotional moods are not at all similar and that creates a situation of friction and unhappiness. No one moving in their desired direction. Stalemate.