The following passage caught my attention in Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaja's commentary on Madhurya Kadambini (2.6). It is particularly interesting in the light of the conception sometimes met, where the neophyte devotee considers that the guru alone is worshipable.
Indeed, sometimes such a narrow-minded conception reaches such great lengths that one may criticize others for neglecting or even rejecting the guru on account of their having attained the fortune of the association of another elevated devotee. Babaji Maharaja, however, states that such association is to be specifically sought for, and that such company is absolutely necessary.
Next, after taking shelter of a genuine guru and receiving instructions in devotional practice and appropriate conduct, the disciple attains the fortune of associating with sadhus who are endowed with a similar mood, affectionate, and highly realized in devotional matters. After taking to devotional life and being given shelter at the feet of Sri Guru, it is absolutely necessary for the sadhaka to associate with genuine mahabhagavata Vaishnavas. Their example should be the framework for one’s devotional life. Serving them and associating with them strengthen the sadhaka’s attachment to bhajan.
Srila Rupa Goswami specifies that there are three things one should look for in devotional association: svajatiyasaye snigdhe sadhau sangah svato vare (BRS, 1.2.74). There are different moods in devotion, such as aisvarya, madhurya, dasya, sakhya, and so forth. A devotee should associate with the sadhus who share the same devotional mood. Moreover, such sadhus should be more advanced and realized than oneself in matters related to bhajan. Finally, one should seek out the company of devotees who are affectionate, in the sense that they are ready to bestow their blessings on those who approach them.
The association of such a mahabhagavata is the sign of great fortune in one’s devotional life, for simply by seeing, touching, or speaking with such an advanced soul, or by hearing Hari katha from him, the devotee sadhaka is quickly energized in his practice, imbued with the devotional spirit, and able to relish the flavors of devotion. The guru therefore instructs his disciple to seek out and benefit from such association.
QUOTE(Madhava @ Oct 16 2005, 05:02 PM)
The following passage caught my attention in Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaja's commentary on Madhurya Kadambini (2.6). It is particularly interesting in the light of the conception sometimes met, where the neophyte devotee considers that the guru alone is worshipable.
Indeed, sometimes such a narrow-minded conception reaches such great lengths that one may criticize others for neglecting or even rejecting the guru on account of their having attained the fortune of the association of another elevated devotee. Babaji Maharaja, however, states that such association is to be specifically sought for, and that such company is absolutely necessary.
Next, after taking shelter of a genuine guru and receiving instructions in devotional practice and appropriate conduct, the disciple attains the fortune of associating with sadhus who are endowed with a similar mood, affectionate, and highly realized in devotional matters. After taking to devotional life and being given shelter at the feet of Sri Guru, it is absolutely necessary for the sadhaka to associate with genuine mahabhagavata Vaishnavas. Their example should be the framework for one’s devotional life. Serving them and associating with them strengthen the sadhaka’s attachment to bhajan.
Srila Rupa Goswami specifies that there are three things one should look for in devotional association: svajatiyasaye snigdhe sadhau sangah svato vare (BRS, 1.2.74). There are different moods in devotion, such as aisvarya, madhurya, dasya, sakhya, and so forth. A devotee should associate with the sadhus who share the same devotional mood. Moreover, such sadhus should be more advanced and realized than oneself in matters related to bhajan. Finally, one should seek out the company of devotees who are affectionate, in the sense that they are ready to bestow their blessings on those who approach them.
The association of such a mahabhagavata is the sign of great fortune in one’s devotional life, for simply by seeing, touching, or speaking with such an advanced soul, or by hearing Hari katha from him, the devotee sadhaka is quickly energized in his practice, imbued with the devotional spirit, and able to relish the flavors of devotion. The guru therefore instructs his disciple to seek out and benefit from such association.
This topic has had 123 views to date, yet nobody has replied or posted to this topic. I am a little amazed.
Maybe, most of the members are having a problem following the line of thought in this topic.
I also feel a little confused about the exact meaning or idea Madhava is trying to convey in this topic.
QUOTE
(1)It is particularly interesting in the light of the conception sometimes met, where the neophyte devotee considers that the guru alone is worshipable.
Response;
Are all sadhus as "worshipable" as the guru?
Does respecting, honoring and acknowledging sadhus exactly equate with "worshipping" them? Should we reject or abandon our "guru" if we meet a sadhu that we admire in ways superior to our guru? Can we just abandon our saviour because we meet a sadhu who is very appealing to us?
Most of all, we are obliged in eternal service to our gurus, so how can we give that up if we meet a sadhu that is more attractive to us?
Is it really "neophyte" to reserve "worship" for the guru while offering respects to other sadhus?
If we come to accept and serve every sadhu that we meet then we will be attempting to go into many directions at once. Is that possible? Where do we draw the line? Who do we serve exclusively and who do we respect and honor while following our guru?
(2)
QUOTE
Indeed, sometimes such a narrow-minded conception reaches such great lengths that one may criticize others for neglecting or even rejecting the guru on account of their having attained the fortune of the association of another elevated devotee.
response;
Please, show this idea and concept in a reference from the canon of Sri Rupa Goswami.
How can one reject or disrespect his guru, even if he meets a sadhu who is more appealing to the mind?
If one understands that the
guru is the functional representation of Srimati Radharani, how can he ever come to reject that, even if the
guru is less appealing than some other sadhu we meet in the course of our journey?
Is there such a thing as "tough love"? Does the guru always come in the form that is most satisfying and appealing to the mind?
I think the lack of response to this topic betrays a predominant rejection of the premise if this topic.
Guru-tyagis are a very rare commodity in the Gaudiya sampradaya, as the authority for rejecting a guru are very stringent and rigid.
Even if the guru is not the greatest vaishnava of all, he is still our guru and we owe some ellegiance there.?
Meeting a sadhu that we really like does not grant immediate license to reject the guru and accept re-initiation.
does it?
QUOTE(Madhava @ Oct 16 2005, 06:02 PM)
The following passage caught my attention in Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaja's commentary on Madhurya Kadambini (2.6). It is particularly interesting in the light of the conception sometimes met, where the neophyte devotee considers that the guru alone is worshipable.
Indeed, sometimes such a narrow-minded conception reaches such great lengths that one may criticize others for neglecting or even rejecting the guru on account of their having attained the fortune of the association of another elevated devotee. Babaji Maharaja, however, states that such association is to be specifically sought for, and that such company is absolutely necessary.
Next, after taking shelter of a genuine guru and receiving instructions in devotional practice and appropriate conduct, the disciple attains the fortune of associating with sadhus who are endowed with a similar mood, affectionate, and highly realized in devotional matters. After taking to devotional life and being given shelter at the feet of Sri Guru, it is absolutely necessary for the sadhaka to associate with genuine mahabhagavata Vaishnavas. Their example should be the framework for one’s devotional life. Serving them and associating with them strengthen the sadhaka’s attachment to bhajan.
Srila Rupa Goswami specifies that there are three things one should look for in devotional association: svajatiyasaye snigdhe sadhau sangah svato vare (BRS, 1.2.74). There are different moods in devotion, such as aisvarya, madhurya, dasya, sakhya, and so forth. A devotee should associate with the sadhus who share the same devotional mood. Moreover, such sadhus should be more advanced and realized than oneself in matters related to bhajan. Finally, one should seek out the company of devotees who are affectionate, in the sense that they are ready to bestow their blessings on those who approach them.
The association of such a mahabhagavata is the sign of great fortune in one’s devotional life, for simply by seeing, touching, or speaking with such an advanced soul, or by hearing Hari katha from him, the devotee sadhaka is quickly energized in his practice, imbued with the devotional spirit, and able to relish the flavors of devotion. The guru therefore instructs his disciple to seek out and benefit from such association.
Yes, I absolutely need such advanced association in order to give up the idea that I alone can get prema. I am praying that one day I can meet, hear from and serve such a great sadhu as described above who can bestow his blessings on my head.
Genuine spiritual life is all based on get the causeless mercy of our Vaisnava superiors who take us in like orphaned children and intoduce us to our Krishna family.
QUOTE(Kshamabuddhi @ Oct 22 2005, 03:31 PM)
Response;
Are all sadhus as "worshipable" as the guru?
Does respecting, honoring and acknowledging sadhus exactly equate with "worshipping" them? Should we reject or abandon our "guru" if we meet a sadhu that we admire in ways superior to our guru? Can we just abandon our saviour because we meet a sadhu who is very appealing to us?
Most of all, we are obliged in eternal service to our gurus, so how can we give that up if we meet a sadhu that is more attractive to us?
Is it really "neophyte" to reserve "worship" for the guru while offering respects to other sadhus? If we come to accept and serve every sadhu that we meet then we will be attempting to go into many directions at once. Is that possible? Where do we draw the line? Who do we serve exclusively and who do we respect and honor while following our guru?
QUOTE
Indeed, sometimes such a narrow-minded conception reaches such great lengths that one may criticize others for neglecting or even rejecting the guru on account of their having attained the fortune of the association of another elevated devotee.
response;
Please, show this idea and concept in a reference from the canon of Sri Rupa Goswami.
How can one reject or disrespect his guru, even if he meets a sadhu who is more appealing to the mind?
If one understands that the
guru is the functional representation of Srimati Radharani, how can he ever come to reject that, even if the
guru is less appealing than some other sadhu we meet in the course of our journey?
Is there such a thing as "tough love"? Does the guru always come in the form that is most satisfying and appealing to the mind?
I think the lack of response to this topic betrays a predominant rejection of the premise if this topic.
Guru-tyagis are a very rare commodity in the Gaudiya sampradaya, as the authority for rejecting a guru are very stringent and rigid.
Even if the guru is not the greatest vaishnava of all, he is still our guru and we owe some ellegiance there.?
Meeting a sadhu that we really like does not grant immediate license to reject the guru and accept re-initiation.does it?
This is my understanding of the passage Madhava quoted from the commentary of Sri Ananta Das Babaji. I can best illustrate what I wish to say with another quote of Sri Babaji from his sudhA kaNikA vyAkhyA on zrI prema bhakti candrikA on the following verse.
parama nAgara kRSNa, tA'te hao tRSNa,
bhajo tAre vrajabhAva loiyA |
rasika bhakata saGge, rahibo piriti raGge,
vrajapure vasati koriyA || 98
"I will lovingly stay with the rasika devotees and live in Vraja." Here association with a rasika devotee means association with a great saint who is dedicated to relishing devotional flavours, fixed in sadAcAra, endowed with the same background and aspirations, affectionate and more advanced than oneself. sajAtiyAzaye snigdhe sAdhau saGgaH svato vare, zrImad bhAgavatArthAnAm AsvAdyo rasikaiH saha. With such rasika devotees, rohibo pIritira raGge..."I will live with love." In his commentary on this portion zrIpAda vizvanAtha cakravartI has written: yugala prema kathA raGgeNa..."Being immersed in the marvel of discussing topics of Sri Radha Madhava's love with each other, the practitioners spend their bhajan-time taking shelter of Their transcendental abode of Sri Vrindavana, which is the most suitable place to remember Their pastimes. This is the best means for a practitioner of the flavours of Vraja to nourish her feelings for Vraja
None of this has to do with rejection...merely acceptance of sanga and the grace of Sri Guru...
QUOTE
Are all sadhus as "worshipable" as the guru?
Does respecting, honoring and acknowledging sadhus exactly equate with "worshipping" them? Should we reject or abandon our "guru" if we meet a sadhu that we admire in ways superior to our guru?
1. It is only by the grace of our Guru that we have the association of great Mahabhagavatas. Our Guru, His Guru Bhais, His senior disciples etc are them.
2. Without having the association and mercy of our Guru in the first place how would we ever know what a Mahabhagavata looks/sounds/acts like?
QUOTE
Can we just abandon our saviour because we meet a sadhu who is very appealing to us?
Most of all, we are obliged in eternal service to our gurus, so how can we give that up if we meet a sadhu that is more attractive to us?
Is it really "neophyte" to reserve "worship" for the guru while offering respects to other sadhus?
If Guru is real Mahabhagavata then He wants for us much siksa and sanga with other advanced sadhus. This is one of the requirements for being Guru in the first place.
QUOTE(lbcVisnudas @ Nov 21 2005, 04:48 PM)
1. It is only by the grace of our Guru that we have the association of great Mahabhagavatas. Our Guru, His Guru Bhais, His senior disciples etc are them.
2. Without having the association and mercy of our Guru in the first place how would we ever know what a Mahabhagavata looks/sounds/acts like?
Yes, nice points lbcVishnu-dasji...Due to the grace of our guruji through diksha we immediately become a part of a wider family that includes rAgAnugIya rasika bhaktas whose grace will hold one hand as the grace of our gurus hold the other hand and deliver us to Braj...