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Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Is there shanta-rasa in Vraja? - The moods of the flora and fauna of Vraja



Madhava - Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:30:26 +0530
QUOTE(Kulapavana @ Aug 16 2005, 12:06 PM)
I do not disagree with you, but perhaps it also depends on the particular case of shanta rasa. One can argue that there is a world of difference between shanta rasa positions in Vaikuntha, and those in Goloka Vrindaban. The rasa concepts in our Gaudiya tradition seem to pertain to Goloka positions alone.

No, that isn't correct.

First of all, there is no zAnta-rasa in Vraja. Second, the concept of rasa extends to Vaikuntha; both zAnta and dAsya prevail there. And again, prema is synonymous with rasa, in that there isn't one without the other. There is also Vaikuntha-prema.

The third division of BRS discussing zAnta-rasa notes how the Alambana-vibhAva (foundational stimuli) for the rasa is the four-armed form of Vishnu and the zAnta-bhaktas, such as the four Kumaras and the ascetics who seek mukti through devotion. The uddIpana-vibhAva (awakening stimuli) are the hearing of Upanishads, the residence in solitude, the appearance of the virAt-rUpa and so forth.

The Gaudiyas treat all accomplished relationships in terms of rasa. If we wish to examine devotion in Vaikuntha in terms other than rasa, we will have to adopt the conceptual framework of another tradition.
Kulapavana - Wed, 17 Aug 2005 00:07:32 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug 16 2005, 11:00 AM)
First of all, there is no shanta-rasa in Vraja.

Really? I have read in quite a few places that Lord Krishna's flute, ornaments, etc. are all devotees in shanta rasa - passive service.
Madhava - Wed, 17 Aug 2005 03:33:55 +0530
QUOTE(Kulapavana @ Aug 16 2005, 07:37 PM)
Really? I have read in quite a few places that Lord Krishna's flute, ornaments, etc. are all devotees in shanta rasa - passive service.

This concept is being circulated in the Gaudiya Math. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati states in his Anuvritti on the eighth verse of Upadeshamrita: "Those desiring to serve in shanta-rasa should aspire to be like the cows, sticks, buffalo horns, the flute, kadamba trees and so forth." The same is stated in his Anubhashya on Chaitanya Caritamrita (2.8.294), where he also includes Yamuna among those in zAnta-rasa, and reiterates that all five rasas are found in Vraja. Bhaktivinoda Thakur, however, notes in the 39th chapter of his Jaiva Dharma, explaining the element of sambandha and the possible relationships: "Shanta-rasa is absent in Vraja, and even dasya-rasa is very inhibited."

Reading over the first wave of the third division of Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, we'll find that shanta-rasa is nowhere discussed as appearing in a vessel in Vraja, nor is there any mention of elements of Alambana-vibhAva or uddIpana-vibhAva found within Vraja-dhama. Regarding the Alambana-vibhAva, or the form of the Lord as the focus of this mood, it is said: caturbhujaz ca zAntAz ca asminn AlambanA matAH || BRS 3.1.7 - "The four-armed form is known to be the object of shanta."

In Sriman Mahaprabhu's teachings to Sanatana Goswami on the matter of raga-marga, we find him presenting four modes of worship, excluding shanta from the list:

dAsa-sakhA-pitrAdi-preyasIra gaNa |
rAga-mArge nija-nija-bhAvera gaNana || CC 2.22.161

"Servants, friends, father and the such, and the beloveds,
All of these individual emotions are included in the raga-marga."

In explaining the meaning of the fourth verse of the mangalacharan of Chaitanya Caritamrita (anarpita-carIM cirAt), discussing the gift of Mahaprabhu, Krishnadas Kaviraja notes:

dAsya, sakhya, vAtsalya, zRGgAra cAri rasa |
cAri bhAvera bhakta yata kRSNa tAra vaza || CC 1.3.11
dAsa-sakhA-pitA-mAtA-kAntA-gaNa laJA |
vraje krIDA kare kRSNa premAviSTa haJA || CC 1.3.12

The four rasas, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and sringara -
By devotees in these four moods, Krishna is subdued.
With servants, friends, fathers, mothers and beloveds,
Krishna enjoys his sports, steeped in prema.

The gift of Mahaprabhu, we all know, is raga-marga-bhakti (CC 1.4.15). Krishnadas describes his thoughts:

yuga-dharma pravartAimu nAma-saGkIrtana |
cAri bhAva-bhakti diyA nAcAmu bhuvana || CC 1.3.19

"I shall propagate the yuga-dharma, nama-sankirtan,
Giving four flavors of bhava-bhakti, I shall make the world dance."

If the cows, the rivers, the trees and so forth are not in the mood of shanta, then what mood are they in? The following Bhagavata-verse describes the perfection of the Vraja-vasis:

kevalena hi bhAvena gopyo gAvo nagA mRgAH |
ye ’nye mUDha-dhiyo nAgAH siddhA mAm Iyur aJjasA || BhP 11.12.8

"With undiluted love, the gopis, the cows, the unmoving beings and the animals, as well as those with foolish minds such as the snakes, attained perfection and came to me."

Commenting on this verse, Visvanatha Chakravarti notes: gAvo vAtsalya-rasena | nagA govardhanAdi parvatAH sakhya-rasena || - "The cows [attained me] by vatsalya-rasa, and the unmoving beings, hills headed by Govardhan, by sakhya-rasa."

Describing the rivers, the following verse appears in the famous Venu-gita, as the Vraja-gopis praise the flute:

nadyas tadA tad upadhArya mukunda-gItam
Avarta-lakSita-manobhava-bhagna-vegAH |
AliGgana-sthagitam Urmi-bhujair murArer
gRhNanti pAda-yugalaM kamalopahArAH || BhP 10.21.15

Then, as the rivers hear the song of Mukunda,
They manifest their desires in whirlpools as their currents break loose,
Embracing Murari with their arm-like waves,
Grasping his two feet and offering lotuses.

In his commentary, Sridhar Svami clarifies, should it not be clear from their desire to embrace, that the desire of their mind is kAma, or amorous desire, and driven by that, they desire to embrace, having heard the flute. In 10.35.7, the same scenario comes about, as the gopis describe the rivers, wandering to and fro as they are in search of Krishna: spRhayatIr vayam ivAbahu-puNyAH prema-vepita-bhujAH stimitApaH - "Hankering as they are, like us their pious merits are few [and hence they don't see him], and with their arms [waves] trembling of prema, their waters are coming to a halt."

The greatest of the rivers of Vraja, Yamuna, is praised in Rupa Goswami's Yamunashtakam: nanda-nandanAntaraGga-bhakti-pUra-vardhinI | - "She increases the floods of antaranga-bhakti (confidential devotion) for the son of Nanda." Her agony of separation after Krishna's leaving from Vraja is described in Vraja-vilasa-stava (94): kRSNA dhIrA yAntI lavaNa jaladhau kRSNa-sambandha hInA | - "The dark river, Yamuna, flowed in a grave manner towards the ocean, deprived of relationship with Krishna."

And the flute itself at the heart of the narration -- gopyaH kim Acarad ayaM kuzalaM sma veNur dAmodarAdhara-sudhAm api gopikAnAm bhuGkte svayaM yad avaziSTa-rasaM - "O gopis! What auspicious deeds must this flute have done, drinking as he is the nectar of the lips of Damodara that belongs to us, enjoying it all by himself and leaving to us but remnants of the taste! And how proud its family is! hradinyo hRSyat-tvaco ‘zru mumucus taravo yathAryaH || 10.21.9 - "The rivers [in which the bamboo grew] are jubilant, and the trees, his ancestors, shed tears of joy." Sanatana Goswami notes that the trees are perhaps rather crying, as they desire to a position akin to the flute's, but know it is not within their grasp.

In 10.21.16, you'll read how the clouds grew concerned for Krishna and Balarama, scorched as they were by the rays of the sun, and due to their prema, expanded, rose high, spreading over them and showering flower-petals. The verse reveals, sakhyur vyadhAt sva-vapuSAmbuda Atapatram - "For his friend, the cloud made his own body into a large umbrella." This is again repeated in 10.35.13, where the cloud offers shelter to his friend (suhRd), Krishna.

And what of Govardhan - hantAyam adrir abalA hari-dAsa-varyaH! - "Alas, friends! Of all servants of Hari, this hill is the best!" Such excellent services Govardhan renders! Is there, perhaps, a pinch of manjari-bhava in Govardhan? Rupa Goswami writes in the first Govardhanastakam of Stava-mala (verse 8):

gAndharvAyAH keli-kalA-bAndhava kuJje
kSuNNais tasyAH kaGkaNa-hAraiH prayatAGga |
rAsa-krIDA-maNDitayopatyakayADhya
pratyAzAM me tvaM kuru govardhana pUrNAm || 8

You are the companion of Gandharvika Radha in her aesthetic amorous sports,
In your kunjas her bracelets and necklaces have fallen as she's stretched her limbs,
O hill, you are adorned and enriched by their pastime of rasa,
O Govardhan! Please fulfill each and every one of my desires!

Sri Radha-kunda most certainly is not of zAnta-rasa; how could the jala-kelI ever take place if Radha and Krishna plunged themselves into the waters of aishvarya? To the contrary, her waters are of maha-bhava of the highest order! The effect she has on the loving devotees, praised in various hymns, tells of her self-evident wondrous qualities.

The love of the cows is described as follows:

dhenavo manda-gAminya Udho-bhAreNa bhUyasA |
yayur bhagavatAhUtA drutaM prItyA snuta-stanAH || BhP 10.20.26

The cows moved about slowly, very heavy as their udders were; being called by the Lord, they ran quickly, their udders becoming wet out of love.

The flowing of milk from the breast is a special, additional sAttvika-bhAva complementing vAtsalya-rasa aside the eight general sAttvikas. Alas, is he not in the habit of sprouting milk directly from the cows' udders? What else is that, but vAtsalya? As in Gopala-champu (1.1.38): kiM ca, murajin-muralI-kalI-khuralI ca sva-mAdhurI-pradugdha-mugdha-surabhi-dugdhAnAM surabhInAm Udho-giritaH saritaH prasArayantI paritaH parikhAyamANaM kSIra-vAridhiM visphArayati | - "And then, as the murali resounds, the the surabhi-cows, dumbfound by its sweetness, stream forth milk from the mountains of their udders in all directions, filling the ocean of milk." And what of the love of the charming little calves who enjoy playing in the pastures with their friend Krishna, that certainly is not shanta-rasa!

And, what of the parrots, who act as messengers to arrange the love-trysts of Radha and Krishna, who are sent to spy at the abodes of Jatila and Chandravali, who delight Radha and Krishna with their charming songs and poetry throughout the day, and who pick orders from Vrinda via a sidelong glance? Does that correspond to descriptions of shanta-rasa we read in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu?

There is no reason to assume that, especially in the wondrous and ever-astonishing land of Vraja, flora and fauna would be barred from experiencing emotions beyond shanta, or passive neutrality and reverence. Of course, the emotions of flora and fauna are somewhat differently expressed due to a difference in the awareness of the repository of rasa. The theory of rasa was not devised to examine the emotions of the animal kingdom, and therefore we may at times struggle in identifying the exact emotion involved, but as has been shown, shanta is a most unbefitting choice as far as as Vraja-dhama is concerned.

There are countless descriptions in the scriptures narrating how the flora and fauna of Vraja love and serve Sri Krishna in a number of enchanting relationships. What has been offered above is but a fragment of what could have been said. I have also not elaborated on the incompatibility of rasas that mixing the elements of shanta-rati with the emotions expressed by the flora and fauna would create.
Kulapavana - Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:13:34 +0530
Thank you Madhavaji for this wealth of information. It provides me with a wonderful topic for meditation smile.gif
kovidara - Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:30:30 +0530
QUOTE
The theory of rasa was not devised to examine the emotions of the animal kingdom, and therefore we may at times struggle in identifying the exact emotion involved, but as has been shown, shanta is a most unbefitting choice as far as as Vraja-dhama is concern.

So your position is that non-human entities in Vraja cannot be classified as shanta rasa because Rupa Goswami's theory of rasa does not accommodate non-humans? And that at the end of the day we can't conclusively classify the non-human entities of Vraja in Rupa Goswami's system of rasa? You have that interesting quote from Visvanatha, but is it really your conclusive position that the cows are in vatsalya rasa etc. in the same way the humans of Vraja are in those rasas?
Kulapavana - Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:12:45 +0530
I always thought of shanta rasa in Vraja as "mood of passive service". I admit that did not take into consideration the actual feelings or mood of the devotee involved, but generally we end up with a position that reflects our mood, not the other way round.

Also, I think shanta in Vraja refers also to things like rocks, ornaments, etc. There the passivity of service is even more obvious.
vijayalakshmi - Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:56:51 +0530
I am in agreement with Madhava, who has produced all the necessary quotes from shastra. Krishna's flute and ornaments for instance are obviously in Madhurya bhava.

Take into account, if you will, that the alvars, most of whom are considered incarnations of the Lord's ornaments like kaustubha, indeed have written in madhurya bhav.

Consider this verse by tirumangai alvar, the incarnation of sarnga (the divine bow of Lord Hari):

the delightful breeze from the south, fragrant with
sandlewood flowers, strikes me like harsh heat wave

the sound of the sweet nothings the two love birds upon
a palmyra tree are exchanging, to me is a sword
cutting my heart into two pieces - what can I do?

Cupid is taking aim at my heart with his sugar cane
bow and flowery arrows, is there none to save me from
these deadly arrows?


Even sarnga takes a female form (as parakala nayika) to participate in the Lord's madhurya leela.

What then to speak of Braj Gopal's murali, who is always pressed tight against his lips?

If you look with rasik eyes cool.gif , you will see that when Krishna excites the world, there is not much "shanti" in the hearts of even the rocks which, unlike in our world, are perfect souls in love with Krishna, just as much as the gopis and gopas are perfect souls.
vijayalakshmi - Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:05:04 +0530
That leads me to a question for you madhava.

Venu, murali and vamshi are in madhurya bhava towads Krishna.

Do they also have corresponding gopi forms?

(I don't know if she is really more fortunate as the gopis think... when Krishna is fainting away and he drops her, she cannot lift herself back up again. At least a gopi can use her human form to get up, and her mouth to chastise Krishna.

Flute must be a "left wing" gopi. smile.gif...)
anuraag - Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:50:12 +0530
QUOTE(vijayalakshmi @ Aug 17 2005, 10:26 PM)
I am in agreement with Madhava, who has produced all the necessary quotes from shastra.  Krishna's flute and ornaments for instance are obviously in Madhurya bhava.


I have been stressing this fact since 1999 on internet forums and many quotes from 'Appreciating Vrindavana Dhama' by Sri Mahanidhi Swami were reproduced in this context when I had a debate with Satyaraja dasa on VNN forums. The followers of ACBVSP and BSST were critical of my posts at that time.
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug 16 2005, 06:03 PM)
There is no reason to assume that, especially in the wondrous and ever-astonishing land of Vraja, flora and fauna would be barred from experiencing emotions beyond shanta, or passive neutrality and reverence. Of course, the emotions of flora and fauna are somewhat differently expressed due to a difference in the awareness of the repository of rasa.

The Kadamba trees offer their service as swings are suspended from their branches and the swing pastimes (especially in this month of Shravana) are enjoyed by the Divine couple. They shower their flowers upon Them in dasya-sakhya rasa.

kariya mohim kunja-kadambani Daar...

Shataka-16, Vrindavana Mahima-amrita
Sri Prabodhananda Saraswati wrote:

20 In nectar Radha's pastime forest, where the moonlight of Her glory delights the kumuda lotus flowers of the poets' voices, I yearn to become a flowering vine.

72 Sometimes as two bumblebees among the Yamuna's golden lotuses, sometimes as two swans in the Yamuna's forest of lotuses, and sometimes as a golden vine climbing a divine tamala tree, They enjoy pastimes of meeting.

74 I take shelter of the girls in the land of Vrindavana, whose fair golden limbs overwhelmed with amorous passion are like graceful vines, who decorate themselves with prasadam garlands, garments and ornaments, who are wonderfully talented in all the arts, and whose bodily hairs stand erect as they shed tears of eternal love for Sri Sri Radha-Krishna.

75 In the wide ocean of the bliss of intense love, on a splendid island, is Vrindavana forest. In that place is a wonderful flower-garden surrounded by eternally-new forest-groves flooded with the intensely sweet nectar of Sri Radha. Please meditate in this way.

84 As Sri Sri Radha-Muralidhara sat under a vine-covered tree, many flowers suddenly offered themselves to Them. Then, from all around, many more beautiful flowers suddenly sprouted and bloomed and, smiling and laughing, also bowed down to offer themselves to the youthful divine couple. Please direct your thoughts to these pastimes.

92 My heart does not yearn for final liberation in Lord Hari's Vaikuntha, which is difficult for the demigods to attain. I only pray that I may accept the body of a blade of grass in the land of Vrindavana, where Sri Sri Gandharva-Muralidhara place Their charming feet.


shyama , haum kaba hoyI haum braja dhoori?

All other herbs, bushes, flowers and every blade of grass offer love in dasya rasa, including the dust particle of Vraja. The whole Vrajadhama is manifest by the Supreme Power of Divine Love, Sri Radha and no Shanta rasa is allowed there. Its place is reserved for Vaikuntha and other Divine abodes.
To enjoy fully the mellows of dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and Madhurya, the opulence, majesty, reverence of God-hood and Aishvarya jnana of Shanta rasa have to be distanced by Vraja Rasiks.

Talasiga - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:23:40 +0530
QUOTE(Kulapavana @ Aug 16 2005, 06:37 PM)
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug 16 2005, 11:00 AM)
First of all, there is no shanta-rasa in Vraja.

Really? I have read in quite a few places that Lord Krishna's flute, ornaments, etc. are all devotees in shanta rasa - passive service.



My understanding is that shaanta ras is foundational. This is a non volitional rasbut it is critical to all other rasa-s. Shanta ras inheres in all other ras.

Shaanta ras may be considered non manifest in Goloka. This is not unusual as this ras, by definition, is non manifest.

One cannot live in the foundation but no-one can live in a house with no foundation.
Kulapavana - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:39:18 +0530
Hmmm, a lot of very interesting points for meditation... Still, can anyone please quote an actual definition of shanta rasa?
Madhava - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:09:17 +0530
QUOTE
Still, can anyone please quote an actual definition of shanta rasa?

The entire first chapter of the third division of Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu is an actual definition of zAnta-rasa. I'll present some key passages to help you grasp a feel of the description.

tatra zAnta-bhakti-rasaH --
vakSyamANair vibhAvAdyaiH zaminAM svAdyatAM gataH
sthAyI zAnti-ratir dhIraiH zAnta-bhakti-rasaH smRtaH || BRS 3.1.4

Then, shanta-bhakti-rasa --
"When the sober relish the shanti-rati through the vibhavas and so forth that are to be described, this is called shanta-bhakti-rasa."

The zAnti is defined in BRS 2.5.16: atha zAntiH - mAnase nirvikalpatvaM zama ity abhidhIyate - "When the mind is free from fluctuations, this is described as tranquility." Those in whom shanti-rati awakens are described as follows:

prAyaH zama-pradhAnAnAM mamatA-gandha-varjitA |
paramAtmatayA kRSNe jAtA zAnta-ratir matA || BRS 2.5.18

"Shanta-rati awakens in those, in whom tranquility predominates, and who are devoid of even the scent of mamata, and who see Krishna as the paramatman."

"My-ness", or mamatA, is the element at the core of Vraja-prema; it is the the conception, "Krishna is mine". Krishna is my beloved, Krishna is my son, Krishna is my best friend, and so forth. This sense of mamatA is firmly present in the four distinct flavors of love. (BRS 2.5.22) Since zAnta-rati is not associated with any of the particular tastes, it is called zuddha, or clear. (BRS 2.5.21)

The description of zAnta-rasa continues:

prAyaH svasukha-jAtIyaM sukhaM syAd atra yoginAm |
kintv Atma-saukhyam aghanaM ghanaM tv Izam ayaM sukham || BRS 3.1.5
tatrApIza-svarUpAnubhavasyaivoru-hetutA |
dAsAdi-van-mano-jJatva-lIlAder na tathA matA || BRS 3.1.6

"It is similar to the joy of those who find joy in the self, such as the yogis; however, the joy of the self is not dense, while the joy arising of the Lord is.
"Still, it is only known to be the cause of relishing the Lord's essential form; there is no participation in the mind-enchanting pastimes that are present in the moods beginning with dasya."

Then, a description of the viSayAlambana-vibhAva, or the form of the Lord who is the focus of this mood:

tatra AlambanAH --
caturbhujaz ca zAntAz ca asminn AlambanA matAH || BRS 3.1.7

Then, the alambana --
"In shanta, the four-armed form is known as the alambana."

This is followed by a description of the four-armed form of Vishnu (3.1.8), and a narration of the qualities perceived in him (3.1.9), headed by perception of him as the condensed form of joy, as the paramatman, as the para-brahman, as the great and vast one, and so forth -- all qualities describing his foundational aizvarya.

The uddIpana-vibhAva, or the elements that act as the stimuli for the mood, are listed (BRS 3.1.18-19) as follows:

atha uddIpanAH –
zrutir mahopaniSadAM vivikta-sthAna-sevanam |
antar-vRtti-vizeSo’sya sphUrtis tattva-vivecanam || BRS 3.1.18
vidyAzakti-pradhAnatvaM vizva-rUpa-pradarzanam |
jJAni-bhaktena saMsargo brahma-satrAdayas tathA |
eSv asAdhAraNAH proktA budhair uddIpanA amI || BRS 3.1.19

"Hearing the main Upanishads, living in solitude, manifestation of the Lord as the inner self, the deliberation of truths, the predominance of the power of knowledge, the vision of the universal form, the company of jnani-bhaktas, and scriptures describing brahman; these, say the wise, are its specific uddipanas."

On account of its close connection with the path of jnana, Jiva Goswami has treated shanta-bhakti and jnana-bhakti synonymously on several occasions in his Priti-sandarbha.

In summary, then, zAnta-rasa is characterized by the following:You may now contemplate on the descriptions of the relationships of the flora and fauna of Vraja with Krishna and assess whether the abovementioned characteristics are present therein.
kovidara - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:34:57 +0530
I agree that it's awkward to classify the non-human entities of Vraja as being in shanta rasa. But as Madhava has pointed out, it may be problematic to classify them at all, if non-humans are not accommodated by Rupa Goswami's system of rasa.

The only direct quote we've seen to positively identify which rasa the non human entities of Vraja are in was quoted by Madhava from Visvanatha Cakravarti:
QUOTE
gAvo vAtsalya-rasena | nagA govardhanAdi parvatAH sakhya-rasena || - "The cows [attained me] by vatsalya-rasa, and the unmoving beings, hills headed by Govardhan, by sakhya-rasa."

Does anyone have any more such quotes? I'd like to see more direct quotes positively establshing the position of the non-human entities of Vraja, especially if we're saying Rupa Goswami's system does not accommodate non-humans. Otherwise all of this "not this, not that" type of discussion seems inconclusive.
Madhava - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:16:51 +0530
QUOTE(kovidara @ Aug 17 2005, 05:00 PM)
So your position is that non-human entities in Vraja cannot be classified as shanta rasa because Rupa Goswami's theory of rasa does not accommodate non-humans?  And that at the end of the day we can't conclusively classify the non-human entities of Vraja in Rupa Goswami's system of rasa?  You have that interesting quote from Visvanatha, but is it really your conclusive position that the cows are in vatsalya rasa etc. in the same way the humans of Vraja are in those rasas?

I'm sorry, I don't have a definitive answer for this, though I do have a suggestion. As a certain fact, I can tell you that no flora or fauna has been listed as AzrayAlambana in the examples given in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu.

Now, there may be a number of reasons for this. I would suggest this is so because we, as human beings, are the observers and students of, and aspirants for the varieties of rasa, and it therefore behooves the author to present appropriate role-models for us to follow, characters of whom we may learn of the intricate ways of rasa.

Someone might argue, drawing from the classical rasa-shastras predating Rupa Goswami's work that focus on the art of expressing human emotion in the realm of drama, that rasa may only be experienced in a heart with appropriate vAsanas of the said emotions from the past, and that therefore animals are disqualified from the experience of rasa, as are unrefined human beings.

While that may be true in the context of the classical theory of rasa, we must remember that Sri Rupa's application is somewhat different, as it places Bhagavan in the position of the viSaya of all rasa, and presents kRSNa-rati as the basis of all devotional rasa. That the flora and fauna experience prema and kRSNa-rati shouldn't be an object of debate, given the ample evidence at our disposal. That, therefore, prompts us to position them somewhere amidst the varieties of bhakti-rasa.

While it is also a fact that animals are not in a position to experience the full spectrum of ingredients in a given rasa due to both limitations in their emotional capacity as well as limitations in the relationship of two different species, there are unmistakable elements of these rasas present in the flora and fauna of Vraja.

I would suggest that the flora and fauna of Vraja be considered sub-divisions within each rasa. As there is reverential friendship and intimate friendship, and as there are many distinct flavors of dasya-rati, let the emotions of the flora and fauna of Vraja be classified as similar sub-divisions within the ratis they most resemble.

I realize I am writing a novel addendum to the theory of bhakti-rasa with what I say. Take it for what it's worth.
Madhava - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:21:26 +0530
That aside, I will keep on browsing for further references on the emotions of the flora and fauna to better bring to light their emotional capacity in terms of the flavors of kRSNa-rati.
Jagat - Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:41:30 +0530
hantAyam adrir abalA hari-dAsa-varyo (10.21.18)

aspandanaM gatimatAM pulakaM tarUNAm, etc.

There are also other verses I believe of sakhya and vatsalya rasa (cows).
Madhava - Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:08:49 +0530
Now, there are also other classifications of rati we may want to look at, discussed in the beginning of BRS 2.5. They are generally called zuddha, or non-distinct. While I do not believe this to be applicable in this case, I am presenting it as a possible option someone might suggest.

sAmAnyAsau tathA svacchA zAntiz cety AdimA tridhA |
eSAGga-kampatA-netrAmIlanonmIlanAdi-kRt || BRS 2.5.8

"Characterized by the trembling of limbs and the blinking of eyes, it is known to be of three varieties: 1) common (sAmAnya), 2) clear (svacchA) and 3) peaceful (zAnti)."

The sAmAnya is illustrated as follows:

kaJcid vizeSam aprAptA sAdhAraNa-janasya yA |
bAlikadaiz ca kRSNe syAt sAmAnyA sA ratir matA || BRS 2.5.9

"That rati, where nothing specific is present, and is found in the common people and in the young girls for Krishna, is called samanya, or common."

This applies in cases where experience of Krishna is new, and no relationship has yet been formed. The example given is of a resident of Mathura who is puzzled by the attraction upon seeing Krishna for the first time. (2.5.10) A young girl featured in another example (2.5.11) is a three-year old.

The svacchA is illustrated as follows:

tat-tat-sAdhanato nAnA-vidha-bhakti-prasaGgataH |
sAdhAkAnAM tu vaividhyaM yAntI svacchA ratir matA || BRS 2.5.12
yadA yAdRzI bhakte syAd Asaktis tAdRzaM tadA |
rUpaM sphaTikavad dhatte svacchAsau tena kIrtitA || BRS 2.5.13

"The rati that appears in the varieties of sadhakas as the result of their varieties of practices and the contact with different flavors of devotion is called clear, or svacchA-rati.
"Like a crystal [reflecting coloured light], it assumes the form of attachment present in whichever kind of devotee it comes in contact with, and is therefore called clear, or svacchA."

The example given is that of a brahmana, who experienced different relationships with the Lord through varieties of services, sometimes considering him a master, sometimes a friend, sometimes a beloved, and so forth.

Are these two flavors applicable for the flora and fauna of Vraja? The undeveloped rati that is called sAmAnya is something that will evolve into a specific relationship through the company of those having a relationship with Krishna. That, therefore, cannot be considered a permanent state, but rather a stage of development towards fully blossoming kRSNa-rati.

As for the latter, svacchA, it deserves more serious consideration as an alternative. Is there evidence to suggest that the flavors of rati in the flora and the fauna of Vraja might change according to circumstances? Do they manifest varieties of sthayI-bhAvas in response to the varieties of vibhAva they come in contact with?

While exploring this question, we must remember that there is a difference in someone's considering another to be in a particular mood, and their actually possessing the said mood in reality. Sometimes, the loving devotee will attribute his own mood to others within his heart's perception, viewing their own moods and aspirations in the object. For this reason, some of the examples in which the gopIs describe the fauna of Vraja must be taken with a grain of salt when considering the actual mood of the fauna.

That is, provided we are after discovering an objective theological solution, and not plunging headlong into gopI-bhAva! But - is that not what we should be doing? In our heart of hearts, yes indeed, but regardless, we find our great theologians at times exploring the realm of rasa from a neutral (taTastha) point of view to help us structure the concept in our minds.

The cows, for example, are clearly fixed in a permanent relationship with Krishna. Someone may consider the trees' shading the path of Krishna a subjective vision, and not the actual conscious act of the trees, but the conscious interaction of the cows, the parrots and so forth is beyond dispute. We may need to consider the flora and the fauna separately as we delve deeper into the question at hand.
kovidara - Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:01:28 +0530
Last night, with this discussion fresh in my mind, I came across Govinda lilamrta 22.11-24, which is a section of beautiful verses relevant here. This chapter is part of a section which describes the night pastimes of Radha and Krishna.

A small sample (translated by Kusakratha das):
QUOTE
17  When the forest saw Lord Krsna it began to dance like a female dancer. The budding forest twigs were it's hands, and the flowers were it's fingertips. The buzzing of the bees and the warbling of the cuckoos were it's singing, and the leaves and branches moving in the breeze were it's graceful gestures.
18  As if thinking the numberless bumble-bees following Sri Sri Radha-Krsna must be tired by now, the affectionate, blossoming madhavi creeper waves it's budding tendril moving in the breeze as if to call them to stop and drink some of it's honey.
19  Using the bumble-bees attracted to it's sweet fragrance as it's mouthpiece, the malati creeper offers prayers for Lord Krsna's pleasure. These bumble-bees seem to instruct: If a gopi neglects her ordinary household duties and serves Krsna, this is very pleasing to Him.
Talasiga - Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:48:43 +0530
QUOTE(kovidara @ Aug 19 2005, 07:31 PM)
Last night, with this discussion fresh in my mind, I came across Govinda lilamrta 22.11-24, which is a section of beautiful verses relevant here.  This chapter is part of a section which describes the night pastimes of Radha and Krishna.

A small sample (translated by Kusakratha das):
QUOTE
17  When the forest saw Lord Krsna it began to dance like a female dancer. The budding forest twigs were it's hands, and the flowers were it's fingertips. The buzzing of the bees and the warbling of the cuckoos were it's singing, and the leaves and branches moving in the breeze were it's graceful gestures.
18  As if thinking the numberless bumble-bees following Sri Sri Radha-Krsna must be tired by now, the affectionate, blossoming madhavi creeper waves it's budding tendril moving in the breeze as if to call them to stop and drink some of it's honey.
19  Using the bumble-bees attracted to it's sweet fragrance as it's mouthpiece, the malati creeper offers prayers for Lord Krsna's pleasure. These bumble-bees seem to instruct: If a gopi neglects her ordinary household duties and serves Krsna, this is very pleasing to Him.




1. And so what is the rasa of the Braj forests when Krishna is elsewhere in Braj?
Or is it that forests are not in rasa at that point and only in bhava?
And what is that bhava?

2. Is not rasa a state of being or is it something other that can be defined by content?
(such as in the statements about madhurya rasa must conform to the content of Krishna as Braj Krishna or that shanta rasa conforms to the content of Hari and not Krishna etc etc?)

3. If rasa is predicated on content, what is the necessary experiential correlate that fully evinces the rasa status out of the bhava latency?

Hey, c'mon - no cheating. Answer these questions on your current digested understanding and experience - no running around cutting and pasting quotes and ad libbing commentary for same.