Answer to Tripurari Maharaja on Nagari-bhava -

QUOTE

A. The truth is that no one would know much of what Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught without his disciples having written about it, as there are only ten verses attributed directly to Mahaprabhu. These are his famous eight verses of Siksastakam and two others cited in Padyavali. These other two verses are:

"I am not a ksatriya, a vaisya or a sudra. Nor am I a brahmacari, a householder, a vanaprastha, or a sannyasi. I am none other than the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krsna, the maintainer of the gopis."

"The message of the Upanisads is far from the nectar topics of Lord Hari. For this reason, the study of the Upanisads does not result in a heart melting with emotion or ecstatic symptoms, such as trembling, shedding tears, or standing of hairs on the body."

Swami B.V. Tripurari Mj was wrong in attributing the second verse from Padyavali to Mahaprabhu as Padyavali of Sri Roopa clearly said it was quoted by Sri Veda Vyasa.

I have been familiar with that verse from Jagadguru Sri Kripaluji's discourses and books since many, many years and posting it on the internet forums since 2000.

Sri Veda Vyasa says in Padyavali.39 -

zrutamapya upaniSadaM dUre hari kathAmRtAt
yanna saMti dravacitta kaMpAzru pulakAdayaH

Some one may give the correct information to Swamiji.

The same verse is rephrased in this Hindi verse of 'Bhakti Shatak'
by Sri Kripaluji Maharaj:

'vandanIya hai upaniSat,yAme jnAn mahAn,
zyAma prema binu jnAn so,prANa hIna tanu jAn'
(Bhakti Sataka- verse 88)
"Upanishads are esteemed because they contain immense Divine knowledge.
But this knowledge does not produce nor increase one's Love for Sri Krishna.
Hence such knowledge is compared to an unconscious body without life and motion!"

QUOTE

His promise in the Gita:

ye yatha mam prapadyate tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

If one wish to condemn Nagara Vada, he or she must also condemn many Mahaprabhu's associates such as Narahari sarakara Thakura, Vasudeva Ghosa, Murari Gupta or Sivananda Sena .Even if one finds that this mood is not to his or her taste, it would be wise to recognize that the ocean of bhakti rasa is vast nd the flavours of love the devotees exchange with their Lord are infinite.
Goracanda das,
fallen sadhaka

Good.

Narahari and Lochan Das are offered in Maharaja's article as companions of Mahaprabhu, suggesting that both were at the stage of sAdhya, and hence there was no sAdhana involved for Nagari-bhava. However, to the best of my knowledge, Lochan Das was not Mahaprabhu's associate. I have never read an account of Lochan Das meeting Mahaprabhu. This suggests that there was continuity to the bhAva beyond some immediate associates.

Gorachand, a nice article. You might have wanted to explore Bhaktivinoda's connection a bit further. You may want to prepare to show the connection between Nagari-bhava and Vasudeva Ghosh or Shivananda Sena beyond citing a pada of unknown origin. It would be a good idea to run your articles through a spell checker in the future, there are quite a few mistakes there. (And you don't usually leave a space before a full stop.)

There are definitely two clear referances from Thakura Bhaktivinoda offering a caution in regard to the aspirants conception of Sri Gauranga. Both instances are also in referance to Sri Dasa Goswami's Manah Sikasa 2, commenting on the phrase, zacIsunu nandIzvarapatisutatve So one can check Manah Siksa 2 commentary and Jaiva Dharma ch 39. It's hard to see how anyone can claim that the reverand Thakura was an advocate of Gaura Nagari bhava. These referances are probably more pramanic than any padas that might have been included in Sajjana Tosani.
The Thakura's reasoning being that by such conception the non-distinction between Gaura and Krsna is, in a sense, compromised. Or Gaura is to be seen primarily in his bhakta bhava.
Sri Vrndavana Das Thakura's admonition poses the most difficult hurdle for my acceptance of it. He seems so definite and strict about it.

QUOTE(Madanmohan das @ Jul 23 2005, 07:31 PM)

Let's have them here for reference. Quoting from the recent translations published by Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti.

Sacinandana Gaurahari is none other than Krishna Himself, the son of the Lord of Nandisvara, Sri Nanda Maharaja. Never consider Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to be inferior to Sri Krishna in any aspect of tattva. He has appeared in Navadvipa, and has displayed a distinct bhajana-lila, so you should never give up vraja-bhajana, thinking that He is Navadvipa-nagara (the lover who enjoys His consorts in Navadvipa).

- Jaiva-dharma, Chapter 39, pp. 838-839

However I couldn't find anything directly relevant in Bhaktivinoda's comments on Manah Siksa - could you point me to the right place?

Also, the Bengali for the passage from Chaitanya Bhagavata (15.29-31):

strI hena nAma prabhu ei avatAre |
zravaNo nA karilA vidita saMsAre ||
ataeva yata mahA-mahima sakale |
gaurAGga-nAgara hena stava nAhi bale ||
yadyapi sakala stava sambhave tAhAne |
tathApiha svabhAva se gAya budha-jane ||

In this avatar, Prabhu wouldn't even so much as hear the word "woman".
Therefore, amidst all his great glories, he is not prayed to as Gauranga-nagara.
Although all varieties of prayers may be there, the wise folk praise him according to his nature.

It leaves little interpretation as far as I can see - Vrindavan Das Thakur is rather clear in his view that Gauranga is not to be praised as Nagara because that wasn't his nature in this avatar. Vrindavan Das does say that all kinds of praise may be there, but clearly it all doesn't meet his approval.

The author brings this up amidst discussion on Prabhu's dealings with the residents of Sri Hatta. There is also other verse before the above often-cited passage that emphasize how Prabhu never dealt with women. Despite Prabhu's teasing remarks towards everyone, the author notes (1.15.17):

sabe para-strIra prati nAhi parihAsa |
strI dekhi dUre prabhu hayena eka-pAza ||

He did not joke with the wives of others;
Upon seeing a woman, Prabhu would take distance.

Curiously, there is an incident described in Chaitanya Caritamrita (1.14) where Prabhu teased the young girls who had come to worship gods on the bank of Ganga to attain good husbands. In a similar situation, Prabhu met his first wife, Lakshmipriya. The author notes (14.65) that the natural affection that awakened between them was covered by childhood emotions (bAlya-bhAvAchanna).

After accepting the worship of Lakshmi, he cited a stanza from the Bhagavata that was spoken by Krishna to the young gopis who had worshiped Katyayani with the same intent. There was, however, no stealing of garments and so forth in the encounter of Gaura and the damsels of Nadiya, unlike in Krishna's prank in the 22th chapter of the 10th canto. Also a noteworthy difference is that after accepting the offerings of the other young girls of Nadia, Prabhu did not acknowledge them as he acknowledged Lakshmipriya, but rather blessed them to have handsome and wealthy husbands.

While in Chaitanya Caritamrita (1.14.67) it is described how at their first meeting Lakshmipriya offered flowers and chandan to his limbs and a garland of mallika-flowers around his neck, in the version of Vrindavan Das (1.10.50) just notes that they recognized each other and she offered her respects to his feet in her mind (lakSmI o vandilA mane prabhu-pada-dvandva). Vrindavan Das places this occurence at the time of the first signs of yauvana (1.10.46) appearing in Prabhu, while Krishnadas Kaviraja narrates this among his childhood pranks and refers to him as zizu, a word characteristic to the ages of pauganda and below, unlikely to be used in describing someone approaching kaizora-zeSa or the end of adolescence and nava-yauvana, the beginning of youth.

At any rate, regardless of the details this incident yields little support to the idea of relationships with other women after Prabhu's marriage, as endorsed in the Gaura-nagari tradition, for Vrindavan Das presents a very brief and conservative account of the incident, neglecting to mention the other girls at all, while Krishnadas Kaviraja notes how Prabhu's and Lakshmipriya's feelings were all covered by children's emotions.

From Manah Siksa Bhasya 2.

zrIzacInandanera svatantra pUjA karile tAhAra sahita zrIkRSNera abheda-jnAna thAke nA/ abheda-jnAna thAklile zrIkRSNapUjAya tAhAra smaraNa sarvatra anusyUta thAke/.........

If Sri Sacinandana is worshiped independantly ( from Krsna ), then the perception of their ( mutual ) non-distinction does not occur. ( Only ) when there is such conception of non-distinction, the contemplation of Gaura is interwoven in all aspects with the worship of Sri Krsna.

No one is condemning anyone here, but the caution is offered by Thakura Bhaktivinoda as it may otherwise give rise to obstacles for the sadhakas persuing a particular sentiment.

caitanyeti kRpAmayeti paramodAreti nAnAvidhi-
premAvezitasarvabhUtahRdayetyAzcAryadhAmaniti/
gaurAngeti guNArNaveti rasarUpeti svanAmapriyety-
azrAntaM mama jalpato janiriyaM yAyAd iti prarthaye//

abheda-jnAna

zrIrAmeti janArdaneti jagatAMnAtheti nArAyaNety-
Anandeti dayApareti kamalAkAnteti kRSNeti ca/
zrIman nAmamahAmRtAbhilaharikallolamagnaM muhur-
muhyantaM galadazru netramavasaM mAM nAtha nityaM kuru//

vaisnava carane dandavat.

Thank you all for taking trouble to read my article (which is in my far from perfect English just like this post also. I apologize for my bad English and mistakes in technical details ) I can't explore Bhaktivinoda's connection with Nadiya nagari bhava and Vrndavana dasa’s verse also, more then I already done in my posts at this web site and article written by my Prabhu , Gadadhara Prana Prabhu , also at this web site .

All these padas are translated by my Prabhu in his books and I will ask him to reveal their origin if you don't believe in his word and translation .

The whole point which I was try to make is that those who oppose or criticize such mellows , and yet at the same time honor the Gaudiya Mahajanas who present them , that they are making a mistake like that of accepting only half of a hen . In other words , they will miss out on a great source of mercy for failing to acknowledge these leading Vaisnava Acaryas teachings in total . After all , Caitanya Vaisnavism reaches par excellence when the Navadvipa and the Vraja rasa combine , just like Kavirajapada said :

caitanya lilamrta pura krsna lila sukarpura
dohe mile hay sumadhurya
sadhu guru prasade taha jei asvade
sei jane madhurya pracurya

Caitanya's lila is full of nectar . When mixed with the camphor of Krsna's lila , it makes the most tasteful combination .By sadhu and Vaisnava krpa , those fortunate to relish this mixture surely know where the most sweetness lies .

So , in the opinion of Gaura-nagaris , Gauranga's Rasaraja and Radha bhava aspects are inseparable traits of His personality . .As He tastes variety of different mellows , so too His internal bhaktas ideally serve Him in the wake of His variegated and changing moods . And , as the kanta bhava is amongst the mellows that Gauranga wishes to share , why not accept that too ? After all , Kavirajapada says :

Kanta prema reaches the highest limit of mahabhava . ( Cc Madhya 24.34 )

Humbly,

QUOTE

I can't explore Bhaktivinoda's connection with Nadiya nagari bhava

Read here for some more,

I have also found this in my notes but cannot recall the source.

QUOTE

quotes from Vaishnava Faith & Movement..

S.K. De;

quote:

The theology that is attributed to Him (Sri Chaitanya) by Krishnadas is clearly the theology of a later day, in which Krishnadas himself was severly trained. This is, however, not the impression given by Murari-gupta, Vrndavana-das and other biographiers of the Navadvipa circle, who avoid the exaggerated scholastic colouring and enlarge more upon Chaitanya's ecstatic devotion and power of working miracles. It must not also be forgotten that the significance of Chaitany's teaching lies not so much in his special interpretation of this or that text, but in the reality and force of his inner spiritual experience, which gave him an extraordonary power over the minds of men.

Quote; (after he gave up his Tol)

The scholarly pursuits of a Pandit, the pride of learning, the zest for dialectic disputations - all passed out of his (Sri Chaitanya's) life, which now began to move in a new atmosphere of entirely different interests. Outside the Srimad Bhagavata, the newly discovered Brahma-samhita, the Samgita-nataka of Ramananda, and the devotional lyrics of Lilasuka, Jayadeva, Vidyapati and Chandidasa, he appears to have relished next to nothing. It is misdirected zeal which invests him with the false glory of scholastic eminence; His true greatness lies in other directions, and his power over men came from other sources.

quote:

It is indeed difficult to say how much of the elaborate theologising, which is piously put in his mouth, was actually uttered by him; for his reported utterances are in fact faithful summaries of the highly scholastic texts of the Vrndavana Gosvamis themselves, who, as leisured recluses, could devote their keenly trained minds to the construction of elaborate system. In chapter after chapter of the Chaitanya Charitamra of Krishna Das, Chaitanya is credited with stupendous sastric learning, highly philosophical discources, great scholastic ingenuity, marvels of interpretation in expoundimg finely finished theological and rhetorical systems of Bhakti; but the general impression, given by the orthodox accounts themselves, of Chaitanya's life of continous and absorbing devotional ectasies, as well as his own disclaimer (explained as the result of his humility) of all such pretensions, certainly throw considerable doubt upon his personal responsability in such scholastic pursuits.

quote:

The scholary and theologically minded Krishnadas kaviraja loves to depict Chaitanya as a scholar and founder of a school of theology, devotes a long and learned chapter of his biography to the detailed description of a systematic scholistic discourse between Ramananda and Chaitanya, lasting ten days and nights, on the whole theme of Bhakti. In the course of the conference the interlocutors quote and discuss, with the evident relish and precision of trained theologians, texts from the works of Rupa, Sanatana anf Jiva, and even from Krishnadas's own Govinda-lilamrta, all of which had not been yet written!

More..

It must be remembered that Chaitanya Charitamrta of Krishnadas is not a Carita, but a Charitamrta, written more from the devotional than from the historical point of view.

It also must be remembered that it was written nearly 100 years after the passing of Sri Chaitanya, completed in the year 1537 saka or 1615 A.D..

And yes it was written as a means to bridge (if you will) the two schools of Gaudiya Vaishnavism that had existed up to that time.

The Navadvipa circle was represented by the works of Murari Gupta, Kavikarnapura, Locana Das and Jayananda, as well as the composers of Padas on Sri Chaitanya and of course Vrndavana Das.

They had their own theology which was somewhat different from that of the Vrndanava Gosvamis and Krishnadas.

The works of the Gosvamis and the Navadivpa devotees were, however, composed at about the same time, although the Navadvipa tradition probably originated earlier than the other.

If Vrndavana Das's inspiration came chiefly from the orthodox circle of Navadvipa, Krishnadas's inspiration came from the scholistic Gosvamis of Vrndanava and EACH in his own way throws intertesting light on different aspects on Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

The two works of Vrndavana Das and Krishnadasa, therefore, are in a sense complementary to each other as representing two distinct traditions within the Gaudiya Vaishnava faith. Krishnadas also inserts a famous Brahma-Samhita verse into the conversations between Sri Chaitanya & Ramananda.....

[quote from Ed Dimock's preface from 'The Place of THe Hidden Moon' in this regard:

"Of all the debts I want to acknowledge, perhaps the greatest is to Professor Sushil Kumar De, Dr. De has not only written the definitive work of Bengal Vaishnavism, a model of erudition and gracful prose entitled 'The Early History of the Vaishnava Faith and Movement in Bengal', upon which I have drawn unashamedly and gratefully, but was instrumental in my beginning the present work by urging me to examine the seventeenth-and eighteenth-century phases of the vaishnav movement.

In Calcutta in 1955-57, in Chicago in 1961 when he was lecturing at the University of Chicago, and again in Calcutta in 1963-64, he gave me freely and graciously of his time and vast knowledge."]

The above are quotes from S.K De that I extracted from 'Vaishnava Faith and Movement' and posted some time back originally on another forum and here as well, along with the quote from Ed Dimock's preface from 'The Place of The Hidden Moon' .

namaskar,

jijaji

QUOTE(jijaji @ Jul 24 2005, 02:34 PM)

The above are quotes from S.K De that I extracted from 'Vaishnava Faith and Movement' and posted some time back originally on another forum and here as well.

namaskar,

jijaji

Thanks and namaskar

QUOTE(jiva @ Jul 24 2005, 10:46 AM)

I was thinking you might have included links for further reading in your article.

QUOTE

All these padas are translated by my Prabhu in his books and I will ask him to reveal their origin if you don't believe in his word and translation .

It's not a question of your or mine believing it, it's a matter of giving people a chance to verify the verifiable for themselves. If there is a matter of controversy, everyone should strive to make their evidence verifiable.

QUOTE

caitanyeti kRpAmayeti paramodAreti nAnAvidhi-
premAvezitasarvabhUtahRdayetyAzcAryadhAmaniti/
gaurAngeti guNArNaveti rasarUpeti svanAmapriyety-
azrAntaM mama jalpato janiriyaM yAyAd iti prarthaye//

zrIrAmeti janArdaneti jagatAMnAtheti nArAyaNety-
Anandeti dayApareti kamalAkAnteti kRSNeti ca/
zrIman nAmamahAmRtAbhilaharikallolamagnaM muhur-
muhyantaM galadazru netramavasaM mAM nAtha nityaM kuru//

zyAmeti sundara-vareti manohareti
kandarpa-koTi-laliteti sunAgareti |
sotkaNTham ahni gRNatI muhur AkulAkSI
sA rAdhikA mayi kadA nu bhavet prasannA ||

zrI-vallbheti varadeti dayApareti
bhakta-priyeti bhava-luNThana-kovideti |
nAtheti nAga-zayaneti jagan-nivAset
yAlApinam prati-dinam kuru me mukunda ||

Oh , I see Madhava...Anyway , I am waiting on Maharaja's answer . Then , I will give the link for further readings..

Generally, you have right . Prabhu will provide us with his sources I am sure ; there is no doubt that they exist...I guess he's quoted from bengali books...

Thanks for good advices, Madhava ji...
Humbly,

QUOTE(Jiva)

Kavirajapada said :

caitanya lilamrta pura krsna lila sukarpura
dohe mile hay sumadhurya
sadhu guru prasade taha jei asvade
sei jane madhurya pracurya

Caitanya's lila is full of nectar . When mixed with the camphor of Krsna's lila , it makes the most tasteful combination .By sadhu and Vaisnava krpa , those fortunate to relish this mixture surely know where the most sweetness lies .

It surely has an exquisite fragrance; Aho! what a sweet combination of lotus-feet!

QUOTE(anuraag @ Jul 24 2005, 01:11 PM)

I have also found this in my notes but cannot recall the source.

quotes from Vaishnava Faith & Movement..

S.K. De;

Read it here
. . .

Thanks for the interesting points that you brought out, Anuraag.

My humble question for the audience is based on the above object, was there any reply or explanations (by GV) for the observations of both Ed. Dimock and Mr. S.K De, on Sri Caitanya;s life?

Yours,
Hari Saran

Jiva, since his purpose was not to stir controversy or to condemn anyone, but simply to respond to questions that had been submitted to him about Gaura-nagara bhava, I doubt that Tripurari Maharaja is likely to respond to your article, at least publicly. He simply responded according to the direction given by his guru varga and our previous acharyas. I think we've seen some further evidence in this thread for the caution he advises in this matter, and you've made your case as well. I'm happy to see such a discussion here so free of any acrimony.

And please, when you correspond with your gurudeva, do convey my respect. Although we may not have full appreciation for the details of some of the ways each other's faith has grown since we last saw each other, I value the friendship I've had with him and respect his immersion in bhakti.

QUOTE(Babhru @ Aug 12 2005, 07:25 PM)

Babhru ji ,

I am glad that you like our discussion . If HH B.V.Svami Tripurari make some further comments , I'll be happy to answer again in a vaisnava-manner .

Yes , I will convey your respect to Prabhuji . Thank you very much for your kind words about my Gurudeva.

I don't think Tripurari Maharaja would have more to say than has already appeared in this thread, except to add a couple of quotations from Tahkura bhaktivinoda and Srila Sarasvati Thakura. If I remember correctly, the Gaura-nagaris are one of the 13 apa-sampradayas discussed by Bhaktivinoda. He also makes a point somewhere in Jaiva Dharma (I don't remember where and will have to search it out again) that Gauranga's Navadvipa lila has a distinct mood and bhajan-lila and that we should never give up vraja-bhajana, thinking that He is Navadvipa-nagara.

I have a couple of quotations somewhere from BSST as well, but I'm not sure you would give them much weight. Anyway, I don't have any intention of trying to dissuade you and Gadadhar-pran from your mode of bhajan, but only to explain why many of us don't appreciate it the way you do.

QUOTE(Babhru @ Aug 13 2005, 10:27 PM)

Dear Babhru ,
thanks for your kind reply.

I don't have any intention to dissuade you or anybody else from your mode of bhajan also .Neither Gadadhar Pran Prabhu ji or my insignificiant self ever said that devotees should give up their vraja-bhajana . All we are say is that the outcome that often occurs when someone meditate on Gaura's Radha bhava lilas before meditating on Vraja lila in manjari bhava is that one's attraction for Radha Krsna's lila far outweighs the attraction for that of Gaura . Yet at this point a whole new world of rasamaya bhakti can begin , as my Prabhu said . And to repeat - because Gauranga is mahabhava svarupini Radha and Rasaraja Krsna combined , we believe that both features form an exquisite enrapture for Gaura's bhaktas to share with him .

Regarding 13-apa sampradayas this is opinion of some Baba ( I forget his name , sorry ) from Radhakund , I think...not Bhaktivinoda.
As you know , Bhativinoda's Sajjana Toshani journal was his preaching-tool also. In that journal we can find numerous Gaura-nagari padas . Why would Bhaktivinoda publish them in his journal if he was thinking it's not bonafide ? Because he loves poetry like HH Swami Tripurari said ? C'mon...!

Let me state more clearly that my intention isn't to declare that Bhaktivinoda worshipped in Nagari bhava. Rather, I am saying that he is linked to this mode of worship in a number of ways.What links Srila Bhaktivinoda the most to nagari bhajan is his tie with Gaura and Gadadhara. I hope that I will be able to write an essay on this subject .

Jaya Jaya Gadadhara Jaya Gauracandra

Navadvipa Vraja lila Sri Radha Govinda !

Humbly,

QUOTE(jiva @ Aug 14 2005, 10:46 AM)

Regarding 13-apa sampradayas this is opinion of some Baba ( I forget his name , sorry ) from Radhakund , I think...not Bhaktivinoda.

This is the view of Tota Ramdas Baba. To the best of my knowledge, he is not from Radha-kunda. He is mentioned in Haridas Dasji's Gaudiya Vaishnava Jivana. He hailed from a dynasty of Dravida-brahmanas, and came to Navadvipa for the study of Nyaya. Hearing the call of renunciation, he left for Vraja and did his bhajan near the temple of Gopinath. After a good while had passed, it is told, he received the order of Sriman Mahaprabhu to go to Navadvipa and arrange for his seva.

At the time of his influence, Maharaja Krishnachandra was the ruler of Navadvipa. The title Tota was given to Ramdas Baba by this Maharaja Krishnachandra after a lengthy dialogue on various darshanas of philosophy. There is a deed in Bengali written in 1785 A.D noting that land granted to the Baba by the Maharaja for the service of Mahaprabhu's murti is excempt from taxes, dating his likely year of birth somewhere towards the beginning of the second quarter of the 1700's. This land of six acres is currently known as Bada Akhda, and is maintained by descendants of Tota Ramdas Baba's disciples. In the opening sentence of the entry, Haridas Dasji notes that Tota Ramdas Baba was the head of the Vaishnavas of Navadvipa.

The verse that has been identified as a list of thirteen apasampradayas reads as follows:

Aula bAula kartAbhajA neDA daraveza sAni |
sahajiyA sakhIbhekI smArta jAta-gosAJi ||
atibADI cUDADhArI gaurAGga-nAgarI |
totA kahe ei terara saGga nAhi kari ||

The list ends with a note, "Tota says - I will not keep their company."

I do not know the source of this, but the track, if all the claims are to be believed, seems to lead back to Bhaktivinoda. If anyone can find him discussing thirteen apasampradayas in his works, that would be proof of his embracing the concept, noting the Gauranga-nagari tradition as undesirable company. Tota Ramdas Baba doesn't call them apasampradayas, does anyone know who popularized the term? However, he does indicate that there is something a bit iffy with them when contrasted to what Totaram Das Baba saw as the proper ways of bhajan in the tradition.

QUOTE

As you know , Bhativinoda's Sajjana Toshani journal was his preaching-tool also. In that journal we can find numerous Gaura-nagari padas . Why would Bhaktivinoda publish them in his journal if he was thinking it's not bonafide ? Because he loves poetry like HH Swami Tripurari said ?

The said padas were published in the eighth year of Sajjana-toshani. Bhaktivinoda began the publishing of the magazine in 1881, which would date the publication of the said Nagari-padas to 1889, a mere few years after his diksha, making him a relative newcomer to the orthodox Gaudiya faith. (Do remember, despite his history with the Gaudiya tradition prior to his diksha, that he notes in his autobiography how meat-eating went away from his heart after diksha -- suggesting that he wasn't that committed to orthodoxy prior to the transforming event.)

The comments cited that seem contrary to Nagari-bhava are from his commentary on Manah-siksa (1886) and from Jaiva Dharma (1893). The latter, being much more clear than the former in its import, post-dates the publication of the said padas by four years. At any rate, he lived for 25 years after the publication of the said padas, which was plenty of time for him to change his mind on the matter -- if indeed the original publication of the padas was an active act of endorsement to begin with. That is not to say that he did, but it is a real possibility to be considered.

Yes , Tota Ramdas Baba . Thanks Madhava ji ...

Back up in history once again - to a period of about 150 years
ago.

During this time famouse Siddha Chaitanya Das Baba performed his nagari bhajan in Navadvipa .Siddha Bhagavan Das Baba was a contemporary of Siddha Chaitanya Das. He also worshiped Gauranga in nagari-bhava. Once upon a time he had a desire to visit Vrindavan . There he began having regular
istagosthi with Siddha Jagannath Das Baba. After meeting Siddha Bhagavan Das, a new type of zeal awakened in Siddha Jagannath das Baba. Jagannath Das Baba's vesa disciple, Rama Hari Das, had a disciple named Visvambhara Das Baba. He has recorded what happened in his book entitled Sri Rasaraja Gauranga Svabhava.

Sri Jagannath Baba then requested his sisya, Bihari Das, to carry him to Navadvip Dham so he could take shelter there...On his way to Navadvip, Jagannath Das Baba first went to Kalna where he spent some days hearing about Nabadvipa's madhura upasana pranali from Bhagavan Das. ..When Vaisnavas would approach Jagannath Das Baba asking for diksa, this would often disturb his bhajan. Hence he would advise them :'' Why don't you take diksa from Sri Narahari's vamsa parampara, this is befitting. For those who maintain a relationship with Narahari will be privileged to attain rasamaya Gauranga as their paramour.''

A famous quote of Siddha Jagannath Das Baba can still be found inscribed on the Sri mandir's wall at Srikhanda : '' Vrindavan is gopi-braja, Navadvip
is bhakti-braja, and Srikhanda is rati-braja''.

At the last stage of his life, Siddha Jagannath Das Baba took to Srikhanda's mode of rati-braja upasana.On occasion, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur would come to take Siddha Baba's darsan, and he respected him as his siksa-guru. Bhaktivinoda Thakura also donated for the construction of his bhajan kutir, and later for his samadhi mandir.

On the occasion of Jagannath Das Baba's disappearance day,my Prabhu , Gadadhara Prana , was personally fortune enough to hear Jagannatha's sucaka kirtan sung at his samadhi mandir ( 14 days before Gaura Purnima ). The Vrindavan babaji community also attend this festival every year before they begin Navadvip Dham parikrama. During this viraha utsava, Holi also takes place. The sucaka kirtan starts by mentioning :

srI jagannAtha mahAsaya jAra prANa-dhana
gaurAGga nAgara kAnta bhAve jAra upAsana

Sri Gauranga nagara was Jagannath baba's life and soul. And he worshiped
him in kanta bhava.

''It was a cause for joy to see Vrindavan's babaji Vaishnava samaja singing in the kirtan too'' , Gadadhar Pran said .

Although Siddha Baba's vesa disciple, Rama Haridasa, and his disciple,
Visvambhara Das took completely to his mood of worshiping Sri Gauranga
nagara .To what extent Srila Bhaktivinoda followed in his
siksa guru's footsteps - I cannot say. But from these historical events I can conclude that he had a high regard for Nadiya nagari bhava.

Here is another example that substantiates this. In his biography of
Siddha Chaitanya Das Babaji Maharaja, Haridasa Goswami says :

Srila Kedarnatha Datta Bhaktivinoda would come on occasion to have Siddha Chaitanya Das Baba's darsan. There was a mood of piriti between the two. Babaji mahasaya's nagari bhava would astonish him. As he was deeply absorbed in this mood he would speak on this topic with everyone. He never tried to hide the topic of his bhajan. For this reason he was highly respected by every Gaura bhakta.

Srila Bhaktivinoda was initiated into a guru parampara wherein some of its members worshipped Gauranga in nagari bhava. Bhaktivinoda says that his guru parampara begins with Vamisvadana Thakura, the Avatara of Krsna's vamsi. Many people may not know it, yet Vamsivadana is Srimati Visnupriya's disciple, and he also worshipped Gauranga in nagari bhava. Because Srila Bhaktivinoda's siksa guru,Sri Jagannatha dasa baba, worshipped in nagari bhava, surely this would be a contributing factor for him to be appreciative of this mellow. Yet what links Srila Bhaktivinoda the most to nagari bhajan is his tie with Gaura and Gadadhara. My Prabhu have gotten Bhaktivinoda’s Gaura Gadadhara jugal mantra directly from Bhaktivoda through his son and disciple Lalita Prasada Thakura. In his booklet Sri Siddha-bhajana-pranali , Sri Lalita Prasada Thaura writes : ami ta ujjvala rase svabhava vrati , apane amara gaura rasaraja murti .

Because my vow follows the ujjvala rasa , my Gaura is Rasraja murti.

So , there is a lot pro and contra informations regarding Bhaktivinoda Thakura's links with Gaura-nagaris . Fools rush in...

I came to know about GP from Jagat Ji's website last year along with GD. During last year Janmasthami festival I went to Navadwipa along with my family and my uncle to take part festival at Samajbari RadhaRaman Bag. With my uncle we went to mayapure to meet GP in evening. I found him very nice, warm humble Gaura Bhakta. Though my uncle is a very senior,well respected Vaishnava, and direct disciple of 1008 Srimad Ram Das Babaji, he also appreciated GP's devotion and loving attitude. He gave me blessings of Gaura prema, which I liked very much. We had a very nice evening with sweet kirtan sang by both my uncle and GP. GP read from his new translation of some Gauranga Nagari pada(I can not remember now). Though our mode of worship is not in accordance to him, but we liked his love towards Gaura, which as Gaudiya Vaishanava we all aspire to achieve.

Jay Nitai
Jay Gaura

Dasanudas

QUOTE

I'm not sure you would give them much weight.

Here's something that I spotted in the 20th Chapter of Sri Advaita-prakasa. It is Vrajraj Press translation so I have no idea how close it is to the original Bengali, but it's an interesting point:

[The context is Gauridasa approaching Sri Advaita Prabhu for guidance in worshipping Gaura-Nitai deities which Mahaprahu asked him to carve, install and worship. Acyutananda asks Advaita Prabhu for permission to join Gauridasa and asks which mantras should be used in the worship of the dieties, to which Advaita Prabhu says that Mahaprabhu should be worshipped with the 10-syllable Gopala mantra and Nityananda with the Narayana-mantra, explaining the reasons thereof.]

Acyuta humbly replied, "I will certainly do as You instructed. But Narahari Sarakara Thakura, the resident of Srikhanda, is a reservoir of loving devotion. He is considered a confidential devotee of Sri Caitanya. He expressed a different opinion on the worship of Gauranga. Please tell me the reason for this."
Advaita Prabhu said, "In the ocean of Sri Krsna Caitanya's love, anything is possible, providing His worship is performed out of pure devotional sentiments. Krsna has firmly promised His devotees that He would reciprocate with their mood of worship." Hearing this, Acyuta became maddened with ecstasy.

(And off he went with Gauridasa to install the deities at Ambika-kalna.)