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Gaudiya Discussions Archive » PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY
Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Sadhu Sanga - what does "same disposition as oneself" mean?



Kamala - Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:19:07 +0530
It says in the Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu (1.2.91):

zrImad-bhAgavatArthAnAm AsvAdo rasikaiH saha
sajAtIyAzaye snigdhe sAdhau saGgaH svato vare

"To taste the meanings of the Srimad Bhagavata in the company of rasika-bhaktas, to associate with saints who are of the same disposition as oneself, who have affectionate hearts, and who are more advanced than oneself."

Does anyone want to expand on what this "same disposition as oneself" means. It could mean various things, such as having, or being interested in, the same

- ista-devata or worshipable Lord
- following a particular guru, sampradaya, or parivar
- affinity for higher rasa topics, manjari bhava, raganuga path etc
- particular rasa (such as dasya, sakhya or madhurya) but not necessarily the same form of the Lord in mind (e.g. dasya rasa in Dwaraka, Ayodhya, Navadrip or Vraja)
- personal devotional (peripheral) characteristics (e.g. scholarly, yogic, musical, preaching-oriented)
- types of devotional practices (e.g. parikrama, deity worship, japa)
- political and cultural values (e.g. progressive, conservative, family-values, alternative health)
- personality (e.g. emotionally intelligent, kind, funny, stern, witty)
- age, gender, origins or other roles (e.g. young mother in a big city, older wealthy grhasta in large Indian family, travelling single male backpacker seeking after truth)

Some of these could be dismissed as trivial, but they illustrate the wide range of factors which might come into play when we consider if someone has the "same disposition" as ourselves.

Any thoughts?
Madhava - Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:16:51 +0530
The word sajAtiya is generally taken as meaning those, who share the same specific prayojana, in our case maņjarI-sevA following the example of Rupa Manjari and others. Such company is truly nourishing for our devotion, as it hits the core of everything we are after.

The commentators don't elaborate on either the mUla-verse you cited (1.2.94) or the Bhagavata-verse (1.18.13) cited (as 1.2.228) to illustrate the principle. The verse cited is an eulogy of the company of devotees who reject the fruits of karma, jnana and so forth, being attached to the Lord.

The commentaries on this verse in BRS only deal with it in rather general terms. Jiva glosses this as the company of those who are tat-samAna-vAsanatva, or who share of similar inner impressions.

In the verse following that (1.2.229), Rupa Goswami cites the famous yasya yat saGgatiH puMso verse, illustrating the rationale behind having the company of those of the same inclination, since the consciousness acts like a chrystal, reflecting the light it comes in contact with. All the commentators say, sva-yUthAn sajAtIyAn. Those within one's own group are those of the same inclination. In our Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, this means having the company of those who share the ideal of maņjarI-sevA as the summit of our aspirations.

Moreover, the original verse specifies the desired company as being that of those who are more advanced than oneself, as the desired moods pour from their hearts into ours through their words and the blessings they shower us with. The element of affection is mentioned, since an affectionate relationship is a necessary medium through which the aforesaid moods are transmitted.
Lancer - Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:47:51 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Jun 3 2005, 11:46 AM)
Moreover, the original verse specifies the desired company as being that of those who are more advanced than oneself, as the desired moods pour from their hearts into ours through their words and the blessings they shower us with.  The element of affection is mentioned, since an affectionate relationship is a necessary medium through which the aforesaid moods are transmitted.


I figured that the reason they need to be affectionate is so that they are merciful -- otherwise, why would they want to hang around with people like me? In other words, Rupa Gosvami advises me to associate with those more advanced than me. The converse of this is that Rupa Gosvami is advising those very saints not to associate with me, because by earlier premise I am definitely not more advanced than they. Their mercy is all I am made of!

Dandavats,
Lancer
Madhava - Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:35:35 +0530
QUOTE(Lancer @ Jun 4 2005, 06:17 AM)
The converse of this is that Rupa Gosvami is advising those very saints not to associate with me, because by earlier premise I am definitely not more advanced than they.  Their mercy is all I am made of!

Then again, this isn't really something regarded as association from their side. Such mahatmas think of it as service they render to us. happy.gif Which makes you a bit uncomfortable since you wouldnt' like to see your seniors serving you, but then again that's the only way to go in this respect... Just make sure to take your opportunity to serve in response whenever and wherever possible. praNipAtena, paripraznena and sevayA.
anuraag - Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:45:56 +0530
QUOTE
Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu (1.2.91):

zrImad-bhAgavatArthAnAm AsvAdo rasikaiH saha
sajAtIyAzaye snigdhe sAdhau saGgaH svato vare


Stay in the company of lovers.

Those other kinds of people, they each
want to show you something.

A crow will lead you to an empty barn,
A parrot to sugar.

- Sufi Saint Rumi
from: http://www.khamush.com

nigama-kalpa-taror galitaM phalaM
zuka-mukhAd amRta-drava-samyutam
pibata bhagavataM rasam Alayam

muhur aho rasikA bhuvi bhAvukAH

- Bhagavatam 1.1.3