Week 5 - Sadhusanga, guruseva & rejection -

We've spoken of the importance of vaishnava sadhu-sanga, and of guru-seva, but here the two are brought together and shown to be dual forms of mercy coming from Sri Hari.

Any comments on the reciprocal relationship between the two?

When a guru stops the disciple from maha-bhagavata-sadhu-seva, this is not reason to reject the guru, but rather a test of the disciple. But if the guru should blaspheme a vaishnava, then rejection is called for.

Of the lists of things that 'qualify' a guru for rejection, it seems like considerable time can be consumed under a guru that is actually avaishnava. Any comments on this? Symptoms like 'not experiencing bliss' seem like they would be very difficult to ferret out, especially for the neophyte.

Thankfully in this modern age it has become easier--check the cookies and cache on his computer, the rental records at the video store, etc. And in a more devotional environment, you should be able to tell whether someone is overflowing with a desire to speak about Radha and Krsna, engage in kirtan, etc. It is true that it's not a superficial question of whether the guru smiles a lot--but he may do that too.

In this regard, I once inquired from Baba on what would qualify for a vidveSin, whether blaspheming a single Vaishnava would suffice. Baba explained that this meant that his general mood was such. And indeed, Jiva Goswami also treats this in a more general way, though it isn't explicitly stated, it is implied in his statement, vaiSNava-bhAva-rAhityeNAvaiSNavatayA, "Due to lacking the mood of a Vaishnava, he is considered a non-Vaishnava..."

You can read the relevant passages from Bhakti-sandarbha in their entirety in here. The six kinds of aparAdha Baba says can be enlisted under vidveSa can be read here.

The reason for the broader consideration is that sometimes there may be friction between two Vaishnavas over doctrinal reasons, and they may even rebuke each other in harsh words that could be construed as "blasphemy". However, if that isn't the general mood expressed towards Vaishnavas, and moreover towards senior Vaishnavas, then that wouldn't qualify as grounds for rejection.

Would you like to elaborate on what you mean with "considerable time can be consumed under a guru..."?

In the list of things that are grounds for rejection, the "not experiencing bliss" may easily be deducted from an observation of the guru not engaging in acts that are causes of such bliss.

Relevant audio: Teachings on Guru-tattva: 4. Reasons for rejecting a guru. Would someone like to type that in?

Radhe Radhe!

On Page 27, Babaji Maharaj says that if Sri Gurudeva gives instructions that are contrary to the scriptures, then association with such a Guru is to be given up and he should be worshipped from a distance.

How is this distant worship/service done? Also, the instruction to continue to worship such a Guru suggests that he is still considered to be the personification of Sri Bhagavan's grace. If this is so, then isn't given giving up the association of the Guru bordering aparadha against the Lord's grace? I don't feel I'm articulating myself clearly here, but what I'm trying to ask is isn't there something contradictory in giving up the association of a Guru (which comes about from seeing a fault in him) and still worshipping him (albeit from a distance)?

Jay Radhe Shyam!

It seems simple to say that seeing a guru 'not engaging in bliss' would be easy enough to observe, but I beg to differ.

1. The guru may fake the symptoms of ecstacy.
2. The disciple may not see the guru that often.

Due to a neophyte attitude, the devotee may not recognise false sentiments coming from the 'guru'. Also, (and granted, I'm thinking of IGM situations I know, and I don't want to open that can of worms) I've seen situations where the disciple may associate with the guru infrequently.. and may not be privy to the guru's private moods to judge them.

Granted, we can blame the disciple, saying they are not doing 'due dilligence', but still, considerable time can be consumed until the truth comes to light as it were.