The principle of Sri Guru. Studying Guru-tattva-vijnana of Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaja.
Week 3 - Gurus -
DharmaChakra - Mon, 02 May 2005 23:16:38 +0530
Gurus discussion points:
Diksa guru vs/same as siksa guru.
caitya-guru vs Paramatma
Again, the 'discussion points' are just my thoughts about interesting topics. Feel more than welcome to completely ignore them & discuss what's on your mind.
DharmaChakra - Thu, 05 May 2005 05:31:20 +0530
QUOTE(DharmaChakra @ May 2 2005, 01:46 PM)
Gurus discussion points:
Diksa guru vs/same as siksa guru.
caitya-guru vs Paramatma
Again, the 'discussion points' are just my thoughts about interesting topics. Feel more than welcome to completely ignore them & discuss what's on your mind.
I found the entire paragraph on the caitya-guru/antaryami/Paramatma on page 18 somewhat confusing. Instead of me trying to explain my obviously incorrect understanding , can someone take a whack at explaining it?
Madhava - Thu, 05 May 2005 06:49:07 +0530
QUOTE(DharmaChakra @ May 5 2005, 01:01 AM)
I found the entire paragraph on the caitya-guru/antaryami/Paramatma on page 18 somewhat confusing. Instead of me trying to explain my obviously incorrect understanding , can someone take a whack at explaining it?
antaryAmI and
paramAtma are generally synonymous.
antar-yAmin means the "inner regulator", and
parama-Atman means "the highest soul". Both are used in referring to
kSIrodazAyI-viSNu, although
antaryAmin, as we'll see, may be further qualified according to the devotees' specific tastes.
Caitya-guru means the "guru of consciousness", commonly used to refer to the inner guru, the voice of God we hear within that guides us, and who indeed may come to us in person in visions and dreams to instruct us.
This is essentially the same as the
antaryAmin, although different devotees will experience it differently in accordance with their respective
iSTa-deva. For example, Bilvamangala prayed,
zikSA-guruz ca bhagavAn zikhi-piJcha-mauliH - "The lord wearing a peacock-feather is my siksha-guru."
The verse around which the passage is modeled is (CC 1.1.58):
jIve sAkSAt nAhi tAte guru caittya-rUpe |
zikSA-guru haya kRSNa-mahAnta-svarUpe ||
The [conditioned] living entity cannot directly perceive the caitya-guru. [Therefore, ] Krishna appears as a siksha-guru in the form of a great devotee.
Is all that clear, or was there something in the text that is still ambiguous?
DharmaChakra - Thu, 05 May 2005 06:59:16 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ May 4 2005, 09:19 PM)
antaryAmI and paramAtma are generally synonymous. antar-yAmin means the "inner regulator", and parama-Atman means "the highest soul".
I think this was the key piece of information I needed. Kinda all fits into place, but if you don't know the two are synonyms, then its a little confusing.
QUOTE(Madhava)
This is essentially the same as the antaryAmin, although different devotees will experience it differently in accordance with their respective iSTa-deva.
How exactly is the
iSTa-deva determined/revealed to the devotee?
Gaurasundara - Thu, 05 May 2005 07:10:06 +0530
I was also confused by the wording in the same passage on page 18. Please see the
Sri Guru Tattva Vijnana topic for clarification.
Madhava - Thu, 05 May 2005 07:26:25 +0530
QUOTE(DharmaChakra @ May 5 2005, 02:29 AM)
How exactly is the iSTa-deva determined/revealed to the devotee?
Refer to Braja's post in the other thread concerning the divine knowledge in the mantra.
Madhava - Thu, 05 May 2005 22:19:44 +0530
Here is a relevant reference concerning the mantra-guru and his connection to the establishment of a specific relationship (with a specific ishta-deva), cited in Bhakti-sandarbha (207).
mantra-gurus tv eka evety Aha -
labdhvAnugraha AcAryAt tena sandarzitAgamaH |
mahA-puruSam abhyarcen mUrtyAbhimatayAtmanaH || [BhP 11.3.48]
There is only one mantra-guru. As stated:
"Receiving the grace of the acarya who reveals unto him the manuals of worship, one should engage in worshiping a particular form of the Lord in accordance with one's specific preference." [BhP 11.3.48]
anugraho mantra-dIkSA-rUpaH | Agamo mantra-vidhi-zAstram | asyaikatvam eka-vacanatvena bodhyate |
"Favour" (anugraha) means in the form of mantra-diksa. "Scriptures" means scriptures describing rules for chanting mantras. Because a singular form [of the word acarya] is used, it is understood that there is only one mantra-guru.
Pursottam - Sun, 22 May 2005 03:30:00 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ May 5 2005, 02:19 AM)
Caitya-guru means the "guru of consciousness", commonly used to refer to the inner guru, the voice of God we hear within that guides us, and who indeed may come to us in person in visions and dreams to instruct us.
How can we be certain that, or how certain can we be that this guidance we receive from within is from the Caitya-guru rather than our own mind playing tricks? I guess it's a matter of discussing and getting confirmation from diksa and siksa gurus and other sadhus, but was just wondering if there are further insights that could be offered on this.
Jai Sri Radhe!