Succession and duration of the Yuga cycle -

There are several interpretations of the Yuga cycle and their duration.

Sometimes their succession is understood as circular: Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, etc.

And sometimes their succession is understood as oscilating: Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, Dvapara, Treta, Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, Dvapara, etc.

There are also disagreements in regards to their duration (short and long interpretations)

Any comments?

I've never heard of the oscillating yugas. My understanding was that they are consistently satya, dvapara (dva = 2), treta (3), kali but in the 28th yuga cycle the second and third are reversed.

From Wikipedia:

"The traditional timescale of the yugas is as follows:

Satya Yuga or Krita Yuga - 1,728,000 years
Treta Yuga - 1,296,000 years
Dwapar Yuga - 864,000 years
Kali Yuga - 432,000 years
Upon conclusion of 71 ( or sometimes 7) circuits of this cycle, there is a period equally long during which the world is inundated; then the cycle begins again.


Sri Yukteswar's teachings on the yugas
An alternate view of the yuga cycle and timescale was taught by the 19th-century Indian yogi Swami Sri Yukteswar. After his chief disciple Paramahansa Yogananda came to America in 1920 and founded Self-Realization Fellowship to teach his guru's meditation technique Kriya Yoga, Sri Yukteswar's teachings on the yuga cycle, presented in his 1894 book The Holy Science, also became more widely known.

According to Sri Yukteswar, the descending phase of Satya Yuga lasts 4800 years. That of Treta Yuga lasts 3600 years. That of Dwapara Yuga lasts 2400 years. That of Kali Yuga lasts 1200 years. The ascending phase of Kali Yuga then begins, also lasting 1200 years; and so on. The ascending phase of Kali Yuga began in September of 499AD. Since September 1699, we have been in the ascending phase of Dwapara Yuga.

This differs from the traditional schedule of mainstream Hinduism presented above, which holds that the yugas are much longer, and that we are today at the beginning of a 432,000 Kali yuga that began in 3102BC.

In The Holy Science, Sri Yukteswar writes the traditional view is based on a misunderstanding. He says that at the end of the last descending Dwapara Yuga (about 700 BC) "Maharaja Yudhisthira, noticing the appearance of the dark Kali Yuga, made over his throne to his grandson [and]...together with all of his wise men...retired to the Himalaya Mountains...Thus there was none in the court...who could understand the principle of correctly accounting the ages of the several Yugas."

Nobody wanted to announce the bad news of the beginning of the descending Kali Yuga, so they just kept adding years to the Dwapara date (at that time 2400 Dwapara). By the deepest point of the Kali Yuga (around 500 BC) that made the date 3600. As the Kali began to ascend again, scholars of the time recognized that there was a mistake in the date (then being called 3600+ Kali, although their texts said Kali had only 1200 years). "By way of reconciliation, they fancied that 1200 years, the real age of Kali, were not the ordinary years of our earth, but were so many daiva years ("years of the gods"), consisting of 12 daiva months of 30 daiva days each, with each daiva day being equal to one ordinary solar year of our earth. Hence according to these men 1200 years of Kali Yuga must be equal to 432,000 years of our earth."

Sri Yukteswar also writes that our sun is part of a binary system, orbiting another star, with an orbital period of about 24,000 years. As our sun moves through this orbit it takes the whole solar system closer to and then further from some "grand center called 'Vishnunabhi', which is the seat of the creative power, 'Brahma', [which]...regulates...the mental virtue of the internal world."

Interestingly, Western astronomy in 1894 had no concept whatsoever of binary star systems; however, modern astronomy has recently recognized that the majority (half or more) of observable stars are part of multi-star gravitational/orbital systems (binary or more).

The "yuga" cycle corresponds to the phenomenon described as "precession of the equinoxes" whereby the positions of constellations shift across the horizon over a period of (if it continues at current rates) 25,600 years. The usual explanation for this is that it is due to precession, whereby Earth's poles wobble over time much like the motion of a toy top. However, according to California venture capitalist Walter Cruttenden of The Binary Research Institute, the same observed phenomenon could be explained equally well or better by elliptical motion of our solar system through space, such as would be caused by it orbiting (and being orbited by) a binary companion. (Such elliptical motion would cause the "precession" to vary in speed over time, resulting in a complete cycle of length very close to 24,000 years.)"

I don't have any specific references for this other than "I heard it when living in Vrindavan" but I did find this by way of google:



From this glossary.

And another Rama-related account:



The account that I recall has the cycle altered specifically due to the appearance of Krsna rather than Rama.

Interesting that Monier-Williams is happy to talk about "the age with the number two" and then mention that it's the third in the cycle and do the same with the "age of triads" being the second. Seems like a natural etymological puzzle.

with respect to the duration of the yugas, the short interpretation does not make much sense, given the geologic age of Earth (the long interpretation fits the geologic time scale almost perfectly).

My main question is whether yugas change in rotation or oscilation as Swami Yukteshwar proposes.

It has been a long time since I read Jain texts and I do not recall the precise terminology, but the second scheme is found in ancient Jain texts. I have not met it in a Hindu context other than that of Yukteswar's discussion. I would be interested in references in Hindu texts, if anyone has any.

Sorry to go off on my own little tangent again, but Elpis asked me about references to the idea I mentioned earlier about the yugas reversing.

Vedabase.net Bhagavatam 1.4.14

hmm... reading the vedic accounts of qualities dominating each of these yugas I have hard time believing that Dvapara is generally more auspicious than Treta. Vedas are not even existent in written, organized form in Satya and Treta yugas. During the next yuga cycle Asvatthama is to be the next Vyaasa compiling the Vedas again in the coming Dvapara yuga. Perhaps the "overlapping" spoken of here has to do with the reversed duration of Treta and Dvapara yugas, and not their qualitative replacement...

If there is something to back up this idea of the reversal, I don't see a problem in treta generally having the qualities attributed to dvapara and vice versa, i.e. references to dvapara having a certain duration and quality are specific to the immediate dvapara just passed, not to all dvapara yugas.

I'd be interested to see whether anyone can find an explanation for the derivation of the names themselves, and thus the connection between treta and three, dvapara and two. Apart from taking kali as the first position and numbering backwards, the only other thing I could think of was the idea of the principles of religion diminishing, thus treta has three legs remaining, dvapara two.

I'm certainly no expert (ask Nala, perhaps, or Yudhisthira after he heard the episode of Nala), but my understanding is that the names of the four ages, viz. kRta-tretA-dvApara-kali, correspond to the number of spots on dice (4-3-2-1), with kRta (4) being the winner and kali (1) being the loser. But I don't know any more than that.

Dandavats,
Lancer

Monier-Williams gives "the number four" as one of the meanings of kRta, and also "symbolical expression for the number 1" for kali.

This suggests that kRta-treta-dvApara-kali is the regular sequence of ages. The durations of the ages are 4:3:2:1, kRta being four times the duration of kali. It's a logical method of numbering, the one that has the duration of four times the unit is kRta, and so forth.

Regarding the swapped yugas in Bhaktivedanta's commentary on Bhagavata 1.4.14:


Perhaps Elpis can parse the above and let us know if there's something of particular interest there?

The reference from Amara-kosh cited in the tikas:

Thank you all for your comments.

I always thought the yuga numbering system refered to good qualities (or legs of Dharma) in each period.

Regarding the swapped yugas in Bhaktivedanta's commentary on Bhagavata 1.4.14 quite frankly I dismissed it initially as editing error (or misspoken word) as it made little sense to me (where is the swapping if Dvapara is always before Kali, and Lord Krishna is said to have appeared at the end of Dvapara yuga?). Btw: is that how the original SP Bhagavatam (India edition) puts it?

I always wondered what the swapping of those two yugas was all about. There are plenty of odd things in Bhaktivedanta's works, I have just had the pleasure of going over some sections of his summary work on Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, and quite frankly I was rather flabbergasted over some of the things he said. Either the editors screwed up, or otherwise he just rushed through things and never bothered to really proofread what he wrote, as he was confident that it was God writing, not him. Some of the mistakes would be very hard to attribute to sheer editorial confusion.

If you consider his lack of time, hectic schedule and barely competent help, it is quite amazing what DID get accomplished...

I'm not one of these "Prabhupadavadis" who see his every word as final, sacred and perfect. Reality was as it was, and mistakes were made. Big deal... the real problem is the fanaticism of many of his disciples who hold such views and prevent corrections.

I translated several of ACBSP books into Polish in the early days. When I proposed that footnotes be added to clarify some passages (with the original still kept "as is") I was branded as "diminisher of Prabhupada's glory"

In some circles cheap praise and dumb flattery still pases as glorification of Sri Guru...

Ah yes, the Yukteswar/Yogananda yuga-controversy rears its head again. I believe that Subal wrote something about this not so long ago. The issue has always piqued my curiosity even from the days when I studied Yogananda's works. I could find no clear reference as to why they think that way except for the fact that his guru (Sri Yukteswar) had written a book with the explanations in it.

It being hard for me to acquire a copy of said book, I finally spotted one in a bookshop in December and I perused the contents. The logic and rationale appear hard to follow, especially in regards as to why we should think in Yukteswar's way. According to him, there have been some mistakes in the astronomical/astrological calculations of the "Orientals". I'm fully aware that the Yogananda followers use the term 'Oriental' and 'Asian' (Indian) interchangeably so it is quite possible that Yukteswar was referring to ancient (Vedic) pundit calculations?

My conclusion (based on that very brief reading) is that Yukteswar presents a different understanding of cosmic time which he has gained through the power of his Kriya-yoga meditation and intuition, and he had to do this since the ancient Orientals supposedly make mistakes while calculating the yuga-cycles traditionally (kRta-tretA-dvapAra-kali). Unless I missed something, Yukteswar does not seem to specify exactly what the mistakes were and how they are incorrect. He is essentially throwing out hundreds (thousands?) of years of astronomical calculative punditry on the strength of his meditations and gives no real reason why his 'oscillating' theory is the correct one or why we should follow that. Not to mention the fact that it is out of line with the Puranic ideal of progressive degradation, though that does not apply in the duration of this particular catur-yuga.

The other interesting thing that I've observed is that this Yogananda school are perhaps the only people who believe in Yukteswar's calculations as much of the almanacs and things that are used everywhere in India follow the traditional schema. It appears to be very much a minority theory.

There are some other odd elements to Yogananda's philosophy. They insist that nasikagram refers to meditating with eyes focused in the region of the 'third eye', and not at the tip of the nose as Bhagavad-gita suggests. I have had long-drawn out arguments with Yogananda followers over this. Some months ago I posted a selection of verses from zrI VRndAvana-mahimAmRta and one of those verses referred to Radharani's nose-ring. The term 'nasikagram' (or something similar) was used.

Interesting. I should have taken a couple more moments to look them up myself earlier.

But what can we make of the other two references I gave, both related to Rama and both from IGM sources? It seems that this is more than an editorial mistake in the BBT Bhagavatam.

One should consider reading Sri Rupapada's 'Sri Laghu-bhagavatamrta'. There is more confusion there.

Who said that this philosophy is simple to understand?

Oh, I think something like that did take place, but not neccessarily in the way it is described in that purport.

Thank you, Madhavananda, for posting the commentaries. This is an interesting discussion. I am trying to write a book review at the moment, but I will look at it and add some comments later.

Sorry for going onto a tangent here, but I just want to mention that the omens based on the throwing of a die (with the numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 on it) three times in a row described by the sage Garga in the GargasaMhitA (this enormous compendium of omens have, unfortunately, not been published, but I have photocopies of a manuscript, which I can consult) is said to be based on actual events witnessed by Garga when RAdhA and KRSNa were throwing dice. Has any of the gauDIya AcAryas written about this? I am curious.

Hmmm, the list of chapter in the GargasaMhitA does not mention one on the throwing of dice. I will have to look into it. I am curious as to whether Garga mentions RAdhA and KRSNa or not. My guess is no, though. The text (the one I have in mind, at least) is probably too early to mention RAdhA.

I should get back to work...

One step at a time here.

I want to point out that it is not that everybody in Indian history agreed on the duration of the yugas, etc. AryabhaTa put forth a scheme in which there are 1008 (not 1000) mahAyugas in a kalpa, these 1008 mahAyugas being divided evenly between 14 manus. Each mahAyuga is divided into four equal yugas. In other words, in AryabhaTa's scheme, kRtayuga and kaliyuga are of the same duration.

AryabhaTa was heavily criticized for this, however, and his later followers abandoned the idea of equal yugas in favor of the traditional scheme.

Also, the saurapakSa operates with the idea that at the very beginning of creation, a period of 17,064,000 years was taken up by the work of creation, and during it, the planets did not move.

The two are not related, but in Zoroastrian thought (see, for example, the Bundahishn), the planets remained motionless in their exaltations until their leader, Ahriman, the spirit of evil, made his onslaught.

The idea of the saurapakSa is interesting and I tried to trace it in myths (i.e., are there any stories that narrate what happened during those 17,064,000 years), but with no success. The reason for this is probably that the idea is a trick, enabling the saurapakSa people to operate with a certain set of astronomical parameters while retaining the traditional division of the mahAyuga.

Enough for now. I will return to this thread later.

This confirms the sequence of Krita-Treta-Dvapara-Kali as the common sequence, as far as the views of the Bhagavata are concerned.