Meeting Shyamdas and David Haberman -

[Seeing as we have no-one reporting from the Dhama right now, I'll include a short account of an event on my last visit.]

I had the good fortune to meet Shyamdas, an American Pusthi-margi whose booksbooks have been popular at Loi Bazaar. Dhanurdhara Swami has known him quite some time, as Shyamdas has been spending a large portion of his time in Vraja and other holy places over the past couple of decades.

At the first meeting, Shyamdas was sitting on the well manicured lawn at the MVT, in the midst of those beautiful gardens. He had before him an array of leaf cups of prasad and several manuscripts. I knew the this was someone of my own tastes! Shyamdas noted that we are neighbors, as we both live in the Hudson Valley area of New York. After a short while, he introduced us to a friend of his, who was sitting with him. He then said that Prema Das had completed a translation of the Bhaktirasamrtasindhu. At that mention, my brain started whirling on that piece of information, trying to figure out why someone who I assumed was also a Pusthi-margi, would have translated BRS. I tried to ask Prema Das about this but trying to get a word in edgeways while two sassy, extroverted Jewish converts to Vaisnavism dominated was a little difficult. We soon parted, but I suggested that we meet again, at least to talk about books and a new CD that Shyamdas told me he had just released.

Soon after that meeting, it was confirmed that Prema Das was David Haberman, the well known scholar who has written some wonderful books on Gaudiya Vaisnavism and Vraja.

A couple of days later, I saw Shyamdas and Prema Das in the MVT restaurant and offered them dinner. They graciously sat with us, even though I forewarned them of the danger of flying foodstuffs and a degree of chaos that can often put people off their meals. My son was reasonably creative with his spaghetti but not too bad. I thanked David for his "Acting as a Way of Salvation," which I had read back around 1990, the same time I came across Ananta Das Baba's books. It was quite an astonishing discovery to come across an objective account of raganuga sadhana by a scholar. He mentioned something along the lines of how it was Vraja-centric, perhaps indicating that he would now include other regions also. As much as I would have loved to talk with David--for hours, probably--my "day job" caught up with me as Shyamdas began to pick my brain on setting up an ecommerce website.

It was fascinating to meet these two luminaries, and, well, if you need their books, I have them. I also have Shyamdas's CD that I'll put in the store shortly. If you are familiar with Krishna Das, you will recognize his voice on one of the tracks. The style is also similar on the other tracks, except, of course, that the songs are all about Krishna.

>Soon after that meeting, it was confirmed that Prema Das was David Haberman

Way cool, what a trip eh? Good to see he has moved from the scholar stand point to the devotees

KD is great. I saw him w/ Ram Das. Most of the bhajans where the Maha mantra.

So whether both Shyama Das and Prema Das (David Haberman
) are the followers of pustimarga? A foolish question may be....But I would like to know the answer

Yes, both pusthi-marg.

I have also met Sri Syamadas in fall on the streets of Barsana, whom I have known since 1988 but lost contact. He was with the crew of National Geographic Society filming a documentary of Braja. Actually I couldn't recognize him after so many years. Looking at the devotees' 'tilaka' I knew they belong to Pushti sampradaya. I casually asked them if they were familiar with the name 'Syamadas'. Immediately Syamadas comes out of the group saying, "I am Syama das." He has changed in these years, put on some weight and a beard but eyes are the same.
He also gave me two of his recent publications of Pushti Marga, the teachings of Mahaprabhu Vallabha acarya. When I gave some donation for his seva, he chukled,
"Are you putting a price on my books!"

It was a wonderful reunion.

He also expressed a keen desire to do movie shooting at the grand 'Rangeeli Mahal' in Barsana and asked if I could help. In those days, Sri Kripaluji Maharaj was in Delhi at Radha Govinda Samiti Ashram and Swami Prakashananda Saraswati was in USA. The mamagement board didn't give permission to the National Geographic crew for filming the 'Rangeeli Mahal' without the presence of their Saintly Masters. Syamadas even offered to go to Delhi with his crew to include Sri Kripaluji Maharaj in the documentary with no extra trouble. Except for myself, no authorities at Rangeeli Mahal showed any interest in his idea nor given their cooperation .

Beautiful stories. Thank you braja and anuraag !

BTW ,what is the 'story' of Syamadas ? Some photos may be ?

When I met Sri Shyama das twice at Jupiter, Florida once in 1988 and next in 1989, he was a simple, humble soul and didn't know him as one of the " luminaries".
He himself was thrilled to meet us, me and my Swamiji. I've still kept the letter he wrote to us. As we sat together on that night in a garden he requested me to sing songs from my favorite 'Gita Govindam' .
It was the best period of my devotional adventures. Since then I knew he was a Rasika devotee! In 1999 I came across his e-mail address and exchanged news about our spiritual progress. He mailed me his beautiful book - 'Viveka Dhairya Ashraya', Sri Vallabha's book regarding 'Taking Refuge in Krishna', which I started sharing on the net with the devotees. Later I discovered it was already available on Pushtimarga web site along with his other translations which I enjoyed reading very much.

Which website is this, may I ask? I've seen about 2 or 3 puzti-mArgiya sites but none of them had any downloadable texts or so. Can I have the URL please?

Here are a few:


http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/Shyamdas.htm

http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/rasa-23.htm

http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/rasa-26.htm

http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/rasa-28.htm

http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/Venu-gita-full.htm

The island? gosh I have family there

Are you talking about the popular Singer Island? There could be a Jupiter Island too but our meeting took place in the fast growing town of Jupiter, at the 'Rainbow Ranch of Jupiter, FL.

I myself have an interest in the Pusti-Marga path and have been recently studying and reading as I am attracted to their mood and Siddhanta.

I do want to point out that they do not see Sri Vallabha as he is depicted in CC nor do they accept Sri Chaitanya as the yuga avatar of Sri Krishna.

They even refer to Sri Vallabha as 'Mahaprabhu'

Not trying to stir the pot, just want to make that clear in case there was any misunderstanding in that regard.

That they do differ does not mean they have to be enemies to Gaudiya Vaishnavas or vise versa as far as I am concerned.

peace,

jijaji

Thakura Bhaktivinoda in Krsna Samhita 8.22 (verse and purport):

sampradAya-virodho 'yam dAvAnalo vicintyate

The eleventh obstacle for the Vaisnavas is sectarianism,
which takes the shape of the forest fire.
Due to sectarianism a person cannot accept
anyone outside of his own group as a Vaisnava,
and as a result he faces many obstacles in finding
a guru and associating with sincere devotees.

Therefore extinguishing the forest fire is most important by giving up this mentality.

Rupa Goswami, in his closing remarks on the presentation on raga-marga in BRS 1.2, says that "some also call it pushti-marga", offering that as a synonym for raga-marga. The traditions evidently had much in common, it'd be interesting to study how and in which aspects they've evolved apart.

A few years ago, the BTG team devoted a huge chunk of an issue of an issue to their pilgrimage to Nathdwara, the centre of PuztI-mArga. It was a very good report. Satyaraj das sent off a letter (which was published) outlining the "differences" between the PuztI and GauDIya paths, asking the BTG team why they failed to mention several facts about Vallabha as seen through GauDIya eyes.

The reply he received from the BTG editorial team has stayed with me forever. Excuse the paraphrasing: "Mahaprabhu and Vallabhacarya were great friends who regularly ate lunch together, discussed Krishna's pastimes and chanted the holy name. Mahaprabhu even married Vallabha's daughter. The closeness of their friendly relationship has stayed intact through the centuries. We do not wish to pick quarrels with friends."

Read here!

Some good pusthi-marg sites;

http://www.pushtimarg.net

http://www.vallabhadigvijaya.com

http://www.pushtibhakti.org

http://www.pushtisampraday.com

Is anyone aware of any research on that one? I know that he married a Vallabha Acarya's daughter.

But the birthdate for Vallabhacarya, of Pusthi fame, is given as 1479; that of Sri Caitanya as 1486. A seven year age difference seems quite unlikely for a father-in-law.

Also, I can't find any mention of Vallabhacarya living at Navadvipa any time, e.g.


And for that matter, has anyone given any thought as to whether the "Vallabha Bhatta" who is mentioned in the CC with regard to the slighting of Sridhar Swami is the same person as Vallabhacarya? In any case, he certainly doesn't seem to be Mahaprabhu's father-in-law.

What we are talking about? "Mahaprabhu even married Vallabha's daughter" . This is totally confusing and wrong. Mahaprabhu married "Daughter of Sri Vallbhacharya srimati Lakshmipriya". But this Vallbhacharya is different from Sri Vallbhacharya of Pustimarga for sure. How come this kind of conclusion comes into consideration? BTW who are BTG?

well there's the problem,

BTG...

I read it as Back To Govinda, Gopala, Giridhari, Gandharvika, Gauranga, Gadadhara ...
(or simply just Godhead).
More on
Sri Vallabha's Suddha-advaita

BTW does anyone on the board know the whereabouts of Dr. Satyaraja? I do miss the contributions of his devotioal and brilliant scientific mind.

Vallabhacharya Mahaprabhu's son Sri Gusainji is the incarnation of Chandravali gopi. I wonder if the "schism" between Gaudiya and Pushti sampradayas arose in any way because of this transcendental fact.

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Oops I completely forgot about the responses to my post in this topic. Well, I could be wrong about (Caitanya) Mahaprabhu's marrying the daughter of Vallabhacarya, whether it is the Vallabhacarya of the puztI-mArgis or a different one since I was only quoting from memory anyway.

But it is a fact that our Mahaprabhu and their Mahaprabhu () shared a deep friendship of sorts and that should continue. That is why I loved the reply from the BTG editors: "We do not wish to pick quarrels with friends."

I like that very much

Gaura,
I think I replied to your response earlier that Mahaprabhu did not married daughter of Ballava Bhatta ( who is referred in cc as Vallva Bhatta of pusti marga) , but Lakshmi Priya was daughter of Ballavacharya of Bengal. Ballava Vatta of pusti marga is mentioned in cc during Gaura's Sanyas Lila. This Vallva Bhatta is different than Mahaprabhu's Father in Law Vallvacharya in Navadwip who is mentioned in cc and cbh during adi lila. Hope this clarifies.

Yes Dasanudasji, I was wrong.

That should teach me to open my mouth without checking my sources!

Jaya Gaura!

If anyone has an interest in the non-friendly dealings, Richard Barz's "The Bhakti Sect of Vallabhacarya" has an account of some unfortunate dealings between the Gaudiyas and Vallabhas, including hut burnings, fighting, and accusations based upon the caste of various prominent personalities, including Sri Rupa and Sanatana Gosvamis.

No interest in non-friendly dealings

Yes indeed.

svastyastu vizvasya khalah prasIdatAM dhyAyantu bhUtAni zivaM mitho dhiyA/
manasca bhadraM bhajatAd-adhoksaja AvezyatAM no matirapyahaituki//

The glorious Prahlada prays;
May all be well with the world; may the ferocious gentle their condition; may all beings contemplate good to one another; may the minds of all resort to auspiscious thoughts; and may our conscious faculty be absorbed in the worship of Adhoksaja Visnu, sans ulterior motive.

Bhag 5,18,9

But they burnt the huts of the Gaudiyas and then accused them of giving up their temple services to go and extinguish the fire! Now, that is unforgivable.

Still, the Gaudiyas were probably aware of that song of Chandidas about building a home for happiness then finding it in ashes. Ah well, back to good vibrations.

It certainly is, but we don't want them to do it again.