Gradations of Yoga in the Gita - Split from "The symptoms of Gaudiya Vaishnava"

Here is a question that I have been waiting the opportunity to ask for:
Based on the original Sanskrit, and taking out the sectarianism added to the translation, which BG has a better translation (nothing about interpretation), in terms of its original texts, the advaitans or vaishnavas? If it is a Vaishnava one, would that be Madhvas or Gaudiyas?

Just in case of misinterpretation of my intention; I do like the Gaudiya Vaishnava interpretations and that is the one I follow, however, I would like to know which line keep its originality, if there is actually such a thing after 5000 years.

I do not know Sanskrit to judge which one is truer to the Sanskrit, but I do have a giant problem with this idea that the whole point of all those chapters is to go through them in order to dismiss them as useless, and then present the only method possible at the end. This is not how I was taught the BG to begin with, which is why I find it so hard to swallow this propagandist version. This is why these extrapolations of BG are not taken seriously at least in the academic communities I have been involved with, as well as in communities of sadhakas, you are not going to see anyone interpret BG that way unless you go to IGM. It is true though in a sense everything is propaganda, and there is beauty in extravagantly placing what is closest to your heart as the only true way for today.

Still this idea of hierarchizing the yogas is a bit childish and even absurd, inimical even to what yoga meditation is about. How you usually see it, is that you choose the yoga that you have the most propensity for, that attracts you the most. You will see most Advaitans see it this way too they do not say that japa or sankirtan is some low baby form of yoga for the rowdy, they do not say it is a less efficient or slower method, or useless for this historical period. They actually respect it as just as high as the others, it is just a matter of your propensity and predilection.

If you want to pretend this is some sort of fuzzy feel-good Neo-Advaita, as I notice the word Neo here seems to have a sort of condescending connotation, well you can pretend so. I guess we can place this so called Neo-Advaita at around the year 1800, because yes this is when Advaita had a big resurgence. That is only 300 years after Sri Caintanya came to introduce Caitanyaism, so I guess you can call yourselves neo-Krishnaites too, and not traditional as you are doing.

There is really nothing Neo about it, these Advaitans fiercely place themselves in the line of Sankara and if you really read Sankara phenomenologically and not just staring at definitions, you will see that they are of him. Do you also want to call every Gaudiya with their personal way of expressing themselves as breaking with the traditional way and being Neo? Then you might as well call every Acarya Neo.

I didn't really understand this point, could you kindly elaborate?


If we are talking about hierarchy in the Bhagavad-gita, then it has never occurred to me before. The other day I read something by Sri Visvanatha Cakravartipada where he said that bhakti is discussed in Bhagavad-gita in between karma-yoga and jJAna-yoga. This is apparently because bhakti is confidential. I cannot remember the exact terminology sorry, perhaps someone else has it?


The label is used to distinguish from IGM. There is the traditional "original" school of Caitanya VaiSNavism, and IGM are the "reformist" school. Or "modern" or whatever.


That is why they are called apa-sampradayas.

Haha no, to speak it more in your terms, I meant then you might as well call every -bonafied- Gaudiya acarya Neo. Sorry I did not think I would have to clarify that!

Do you see why I am saying this...

On another note, obviously I know why the word traditional is used here, but I was saying what I said to make a broader point.

Advaitans give all praise to bhagavad gita too and the upanisads too and using
the same text and knowing sanskrit sincerely do not see it as saying that sitting- dhyana-patanjali yoga is a lower path than gaudiya yoga. It depends what chapters and sentences you choose to see as more definitive than others, i guess. If you were to read an Advaitan translation and commentary of BG, before ever being exposed to prabhupada's, then prabhupada's would seem like the one taking things out of context. In fact the commentaries and meanings that Prabhupada gives to BG are generally considered the most sectarian and twisting of all interpretations ever written. If you take classes on BG you will not hear these interpretations, but most likely Advaitan ones, as the conclusive commentaries of what BG is about.

I know a person it was funny he read Prabhupada's BG and was saying, "the whole time i was reading it, i was picturing krsna sitting there somewhere screaming: No! No! Prabhupada, I did not mean that, stop writing that! " haha Also the upanisads, which are considered the philosophical crown-jewel of the vedas, i would have a hard time imagining how they would be read as anything but Advaitan theology, just reading them closely without IGM or other preconceptions, but I am sure it is possible to totally read them otherwise, and that is fine by me, and I mean that.

p.s. sorry to go off topic again.

Radhe!

I trust the words of the Lord:

Bhagavad-gita ,ch. 12 , starting verses

Arjuna inquired: Which is considered to be more perfect, those who are properly engaged in Your devotional service, or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

The Blessed Lord said: He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be most perfect.
But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, fixed and immovable--the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth--by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.
For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.
For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

Pretty clear, not?

Yes, yes,yes…

However, although He affirms that the non-dualistic process is troublesome, still He affirms:

“by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.”

acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva...

If Krsna has a laddu in one hand and a chilli in the other, which one would you prefer to eat?

If someone has a candy in one hand, and says "Take this one it is easy for you and I will love you as most perfect," and a candy on the other, saying, "Well this one is more troublesome," in winking smile, which one would you take?

There is no "winking smile".

Sure all paths finally lead to Krishna.

Its up to us to decide on which train we want to jump.

No train is "better".
Just less troublesome and more juicy....

Here is something I found by fluke that sort of relates to this.

tarko'pratiSThaH zrutayo vibhinnA
nAsAv RSiH yasya mataM na bhinnam |
dharmasya tattvaM nihitaM guhAyAM
mahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH || [Mbh 3.313.117]

Logic is inconclusive, the shrutis differ;
he is not a rishi whose opinion isn't different;
the truths of dharma lie in a hidden place,
therefore follow the path the mahajanas have treaded.

Both. And for sure Radha-Krishna- Lila has alot of that...

I do like Chutney, don't you?

Chilli-laddu chutney? Ok, I won't be swapping any recipes with you Harisaranji!

That's a nice translation of the tarko'pratistha...etc., sloka. Is it your own invention or have you quoted it from somewhere? Anyway very apt.
If anyone finds our Gaudiya darsan too much, too soon, then there is a good English translation of Reverend Sridhara Swami's Gita tika called Subodhini, and there's Sri Ramanuja Bhasya which goes a long way in refutation of the Advaitavad propounded by the followers of Sripad Sankaracarya. Both were published by the Rama Krsna Mission.

Most strange! Me Madanmohan das?

That's wierd. I seem to be logged in as Ananga with firefox and myself with msn.
No problem, I've sorted it out now. Ananga must have logged in here when he set up the firefox.