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Discussions specifically related with the various aspects of practice of bhakti-sadhana in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Ruci and the Scriptual Injunctions - Before and After Ruci Developes.



Srijiva - Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:32:35 +0530
from Raga Vartma Candrika, by Srila Visvanatha Cakravartipada, Sri Ananta dasa Babaji comments:
QUOTE
"...simularly the scriptures also describe how to attain feelings in relation to Sri Krsna. Therefore, although there is no dependence on the scriptures while sacred greed awakens, there is a dependence on scriptual injunctions when one wants to attain the desired feelings. When one sees that the taste of the devotee is opposed to scriptual injuctions, it must be understood that no real taste has awakened within that person, but that person has just developed some mAyika (illusory, mundane) feelings. When real ruci has awakened, the scriptual injunctions will follow it. Before ruci has arisen, bhajana will be done according to scriptual injunctions, and after ruci has arisen, the scriptual injunctions will follow the ruci. In this way it is to be understood."


My wife and I think we are following what it means to do bhajana according to scriptual injunctions in order to attain the desired feelings...and that there is no dependence on these scriptual injunctions once this ruci has awakened or arisen...we are not quite clear on what it means that the scriptual injunctions then follow the ruci. I am having a hard time getting my mind around that one for some reason. Could you explain this for us in perhaps even simpler terms? blush.gif

And another recognizable name for these scriptual injuctions would be?...

So Mayika feelings would be like if someone thinks they are experiencing sacred greed when they have not gone through the purification process (perhaps given by these scriptual injuctions?) to acheive it? Is this the basic premise? I have a feeling I may be mistaking the definitions of ruci for lobha or bhava? I am so terrible with keeping track the meanings of each. It needs to be pounded into my head over & over. so PLEASE bear-with me, familiarity will kick in soon. rolleyes.gif
Gaurasundara - Tue, 29 Mar 2005 06:43:39 +0530
As far as I am aware, this is briefly outlined in JIva GosvAmI's Bhakti Sandarbha 312:

ajAta-tAdRSa-rucinA tu sad-viSeSAdara-mAtrAdRtA rAgAnugApi vaidhI-saMvalitaivAnuSTheyA | tathä loka-saMgrahArthaM pratiSTitena jAta-tAdRSa-rucinA ca | atra miSratve ca yathA-yogyaM rAgAnugAyaikI kRtyaiva vaidhI kartavyA ||

"Those in whom such taste (ruci) has not awakened, but who have a special interest for it, should engage in a mixture of rAgAnugA and vaidhI. For the sake of establishing an example for the people of the world, the one in whom such ruci has awakened will do the same. Therefore, as appropriate, rAgAnugA should be performed together with vaidhI."

Unawakened taste is ajAta-ruci whereas awakened taste is jAta-ruci. The scriptural regulations being referred to are things such as hearing, chanting, and so on. Even though these things are perhaps unnecessary for those whose ruci has awakened, they engage in it anyway simply for setting the example for everyone else to follow. That is how I understand it.

I hope this answers your question?
Gaurasundara - Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:16:32 +0530
Ah, I see what you mean now. blush.gif I think the answer is contained in Pandit Baba's purport to the next verse (8):

QUOTE(Pandit Ananta das Babaji @ Raga-vartma-candrika 8)
At first the greed of an aspirant will be scattered over many different subject matters and cannot focus on the actual beloved object, but when sAdhana-bhajana ripens, this greed will give up all other subject matters and will focus on the beloved.

This probably refers to how upon reading the lIlAs of KRSNa in the BhAgavata the sacred greed awakens within the sAdhaka to attain those same feelings, and then one becomes dependent on scriptural injunctions in the matter of how to attain that goal. To my mind, this is dealt with in Verses 13 and 14 of RVC. These verses explain how sravaNa and smaraNa of things that are favourable to the attainment of the desired mood should be engaged in.
They (as well as Verse 12) also describe the things that are unfavourable to the attainment of the desired mood and thus should not be engaged in. For example, ahaMgropAsana nyAsa mudrA dvArakA-dhyAna mahiSyarcanAdInyapakArakANi na kartavyAni - Thinking oneself as nondifferent from the object of worship, nyAsa, mudrA, meditating on DvArakA, worshipping the Queens of DvArakA, and so forth, are unbefitting acts and should not be engaged in.
Srijiva - Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:42:25 +0530
Thank you. Yes, this much I can pretty much understand. I am hung up on the bold faced sentences of my first post...I don't understand what Babaji Maharaja means by saying the scriptual injuctions will then follow the ruci. Depending on the script.inj.'s to get you to ruci, Tatse, right? That I can dig...even that you then don't need to rely apon the script.inj's anymore...that I can dig...That you practice a blend of Raga and vaiddhi for the sake of others still on the path, that I can dig... but I am confused by the phrasing of "and after the ruci has arisen, the scriptual injuctions will follow the ruci". Follow the ruci...follow the taste? follow the greed?...follow the feelings. First you follow the scriptures...then they follow you? The best I can come up with, and I tend to reject this idea, but maybe it is so...that once you get the ruci, you are then qualified to make injuctions? They follow your lead now? I imagine this stage of raganuga bhakti, well, to acheive it you must be pretty advanced.

I really fear that it is something relaly basic and my grammer is so poor that I am not comprehendig it. It isn't just me though...my wife too is confused by this and she is really on it 98.6% of the time. I haven't had time to read on...maybe it will get answered in the coming pages...

I appreciate your affirming that I am understanding most of this, Gaurasundaraji. Do you see what it is I am confused about though? It is the semantics... wink.gif
Madhava - Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:23:15 +0530
The scriptural injunctions' following ruchi is understood as follows.

In the stage in which ruchi has not awakened, the varieties of injunctions on puja, meditation and so forth are there to guide your consciousness in the proper direction, so as to make it a suitable vessel for the ruchi, to assist in its cultivation.

However, after the awakening of ruchi the injunctions' attempts to guide your consciousness become somewhat redundant, since their goal has already been accomplished and the mind is naturally drawn to its desired object. Hence, whichever injunctions happen to be on the path of the ruchi-bhakta's bhajana are the injunctions that will come to be followed, and thus the injunctions essentially "follow" the ruchi instead of the other way around.
Srijiva - Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:03:21 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Mar 28 2005, 06:53 PM)
The scriptural injunctions' following ruchi is understood as follows.

In the stage in which ruchi has not awakened, the varieties of injunctions on puja, meditation and so forth are there to guide your consciousness in the proper direction, so as to make it a suitable vessel for the ruchi, to assist in its cultivation.

However, after the awakening of ruchi the injunctions' attempts to guide your consciousness become somewhat redundant, since their goal has already been accomplished and the mind is naturally drawn to its desired object. Hence, whichever injunctions happen to be on the path of the ruchi-bhakta's bhajana are the injunctions that will come to be followed, and thus the injunctions essentially "follow" the ruchi instead of the other way around.



Thank you Madhava...It is beginning to make sense...I think wink.gif

It is interesting to notice when I read about spiritual topics I am having to contend with alot of distortion caused by Maya. It is nice to call on you guys to help me run something thru a filter or two so I can be sure I have understood it right. For this I am imensely grateful. smile.gif