Faith Healing and the Media - Biased reporting... a must read

http://www.randi.org/jr/021805a.html

This is a great article by James Randi, known skeptic and performer, on a recent ABC television show about Brazilian faith healer 'John of God'. I watched the program and thought much the same as Mr. Randi, that it was in fact an infomercial for this faith healer.

I'm rather happy that the GV tradition, at least here in the west, is without this aspect of 'faith'. While we have all seen rather 'new age' ideas creep into GV over time. ( An interesting looking example, and some Hollow Earth stuff), we seem to have been immune from this disaster. (I would be interested in counter-examples)

Randi makes a few excellent points on the gullability of the patients and the parlor level tricks 'John' uses to convince his followers. Also look at the 'no-fail' reasoning he uses for patients not getting better.

Also, its interesting that the 'blockhead' trick, which 'John' uses for inserting forceps up a patients nose, originated with Indian fakirs/jaduwallahs. Its amazing how a con artist can use that natural human reaction of being uncomfortable when seeing something 'unnatural' happen to a body against us.

"Randi makes a few excellent points on the gullability of the patients and the parlor level tricks 'John' uses to convince his followers. Also look at the 'no-fail' reasoning he uses for patients not getting better. "


I think I have seen similar phenomena "close to home" as well...

Kulapavana-ji
Can you elaborate on this? I think the topic of the thread is an important one.. what is it in us humans that makes us fall for such things? Be it physical or spiritual, we always have to be on guard against the tricksters that are out to take from us our (usually) material wealth.

While I'm not a follower, what I've read of ACBS seems to point to him having a 'no baloney' kind of approach. I do know that since his departure, however, some 'spiritualist' elements did start to creep in, someone was 'channelling' ACBS at one point, no? This isn't a discussion of 'new age in ISKCON' tho.. I want to look at the larger picture, Is GV insulated against this kind of abuse? What to others think about this?

I was thinking about all these supposedly "great leaders" selling gullible neophytes all kinds of tricks as spirituality (like cheating, telling lies, emotional and physical abuse, etc.) and the "no fail" "shastra based" reasoning to justify their actions and explain inevitable disasters that followed.

Why do we fall for such "snake oil" peddlers? So many reasons: our ignorance, "something for nothing" attitude, insincerity, not trusting our heart, and trusting others too much. And lets face it: some of the con artists are real GOOD!

I was unable to get into that site but am familar with John Randi and wouldn't suggest the Gaudiyas make him an ally due to the field day he would have with the richness of the Gaudiya tradition.

Without knowing much about this John of God, I do know that recieving a healing or the path to wholeness is very much a two way street and there are those who are quite simply not able to let go of their diseased programming and therefore they remain sick so this claim that not all are healable does not really discredit him.

While certainly the faith healing tradition is full of charlatans, I do feel it is very much within what I would define as compassionate centered theology as popularly exemplified by Jesus the Christ.

As far as Gaudiya being free of this obuse, one just has to read for instance the current thread of the sadhus and their honoring of Govardhana Hill to feel the rich heritage of the Gaudiyas to know in many respects, they are beyond this but the world is not beyond sadhu pretenders.

Finally got in to read the article and to went to the John of God websites to make a balanced observation. While Randi makes some good points, would one expect him to state otherwise being who he is? Heck, if he investigated Krishna's lifting of Govardhana Hill, I am sure he would suggest Krishna was taking steroids and his being juiced up was the source of his strength and there was nothing supernatural about it. I don't know folks, this John of God could be the real deal. I think I'll swing my pendulum to figure this out.

Neither would I. He is an avowed agnostic/athiest, and would have little to add to any faith based discussion. However, his points of investigation are valid, and should be look at as such.
Babuji, you seem to fall into this reasoning, that the sick don't want to heal themselves. I can't see how you can state such things without realizing the destructive nature of such reasoning. I want to quote from the above article The body is a physical machine, and should be approached as such. Centuries have been devoted to the study of this machine we call the body, and yet so many would throw this hard work out for the impossible hope that their machine isn't permanently broken, that it can be repaired even when the best science says it is impossibe.
I would disagree. Charging money for parlor tricks and false hope is not compassionate. Its the cheaters and the cheated. How is it compassionate to have someone fly to Brazil & be put up for a minimum of two weeks - on the patients dime - and then tell them they 'don't want to heal themselves'? Something tells me refunds are not forthcoming.

No doubt there are pretenders in all fields. Yet Gaudiyas, at least in the West, seem to be free of this spectacle of faith healing. I personally find nothing more pathetic than playing on an ailing person's hopes for health to make money. There is something immensely sad about these people being duped for their cash. Why have there been no documented 'cures' from these methodologies?

No doubt he would take a dour view of our collective beliefs. Yet, I don't turn to Randi to explain my religious viewpoints. Just like I don't turn to the Bhagavatam for driving directions to Mars. Is Randi over the top? No doubt he is. He's a performer on a mission. However, remove the wheat from the chaff & you will find that he makes many good points, and gives people a mental toolkit to keep them from getting taken advantage of.
Babuji, I always enjoy your humor.

DharmaChakra, the medical establishment is equally laden with shortcomings and false hopes. I wouldn't want to begin to describe the current system which is so much about doctors pushing pills for the drug companies. Yes, the body is a physical machine, but its health is very much related to mind and spirit. For instance, upwards of 50% of illness according some people's calculations is anxiety or anger related. Cholesterol levels are higher in individuals with hypertension and therefore a higher incidence of strokes, heart attacks and inattentiveness while chanting. Whatever the percentage, clearly an ill temperment brings about a corresponding malfunction of the body and offenses to the Holy Name.

No the body is not a mere machine but a complex physical manifestation whose roots transcend 3-dimensional reality. Machines are not moody and emotional and they do not feel moments of great love and transcendence.

Yes, centuries have been devoted to the study of the body and there are centuries of opinions and understandings of its most efficient operation. The idea of prana and pranic breathing which is a metaphysical understanding is being incorporated by many into an optimal health system is clearly beyond nuts and bolts. Sophisticated understandings of nutrition and how to live one's life that are much in vogue nowadays, are as well far beyond this mechanical understanding that the body is a mere machine.



I read where he does not charge for the healings. Only for the herbs that are sometimes needed. Yes, I would imagine it might be a bit of a disappointment to know one couldn't be healed by this man. The world is full of both healers and medicine unable to bring some to physical wholeness and people suffer and people die. Its sad people suffer and die. I hope someday we will live in a world where suffering and death is irradicated.



Once again, modern medicine which you cite as the alternative is very much in it for the money as well. In ancient China I've heard, the doctors were paid when people were well, not when people were sick for them to heal. We live in a system where the reward is found in sickness.

If you google and go to some John of God websites, it seems there are quite a few people claiming cures from his methodologies.

But I agree, people being duped out of money by either doctors or faith healers is criminal.

Whether or not John of God is the real deal (I've seemed to have misplaced my pendulum), there is something to faith healing.