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Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Theology of guru-tattva - In Gaudiya Vaishnavism

Madhava - Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:25:55 +0530
I'm starting this thread in conjunction with my latest uploads on guru-tattva at Vraja Media, hoping to see a lively and comprehensive discussion on the theology of guru-tattva, should there be some points that are not clear to our good audience as of yet.

As a heads up for everyone, I consider this my baby topic and I really, really intend to keep it neat, clean and insightful, so please only post on topic. smile.gif
Gaurasundara - Sun, 20 Feb 2005 08:02:22 +0530
QUOTE(Pandit Ananta das Babaji @ Guru-tattva-vijnana,p.20-21)
..Wherever the chief items of bhajan are hearing and chanting the glories of the Lord, the worship and praise of ZrI Guru is incorporated as a secondary item. That is called ordinary service to the guru. ... If a person is exclusively surrendered to guru-bhakti and fixed in guru-sevA, and keeps the worship and service of ZrI Guru as the main item, while practising hearing and chanting about the Lord as an auxiliary item of his bhajana, it is called special guru-sevA. ... This kind of sAdhaka, who is especially fixed in his service to the guru, is called vaiziSTya lipsu by ZrImat JIva GosvAmIpAda.

As Panditji then provides a couple of verses from zAstra to backup his point, it seems rather odd that the concept of vaiziSTya-lipsu sAdhakas has not been discussed much in GauDIya theology per se. We often hear that the guru is to be respected as good as God (if not more so) along the lines of yasya prasAdad bhagavat-prasAdo, but it seems a little frightening to conceive of guru-bhakti to almost eclipse BhAgavat-seva and make it an 'auxiliary' item of bhajana. Why and how is this so?
Madhava - Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:31:33 +0530
Did you listen to the mp3 on special guru seva I uploaded? This idea of predominating guru-seva is related with verses such as:

bhaktir yathA harau me'sti tadvan niSThA gurau yadi |
mamAsti tena satyena svaM darzayatu me hariH ||

Why is it frightening? It would only really be frightening if one would not understand the connection between guru and Bhagavan as far as I can see.
Madanmohan das - Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:47:55 +0530
In Vaisistya guru seva how does the sadhaka concieve of the guru?
Is it differant from the ordinary guru seva?
and how does it relate to the guru seva in siddha Krsna das bababji's Gutika?
Is it only a vaisistya sadhaka that can do vaisthya guru seva?
These are questions before listening to the uploads which I shall set about straight and see what further points arise
VrajaGopi - Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:06:57 +0530
What a fascinating topic, Madhava!

Would the vaisistya seva give different results than the ordinary guru seva?
Are there any particular examples of vaisistya sadhakas? Please could you tell me where I can read more about this?
Madanmohan das - Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:27:34 +0530
I suppose a very broad understanding would be that the intimate disciples who always live with the guru have the chance for this Vaisistya seva.
Sri Suka Katha is a good book which discusses the topic quite exaustively.
What might be cause of apprehension is the thought of artificially trying to do that but not having the proper insight about it.
Like some institutions make the guru god to the exclusion of god because after all the you can see the guru easily enough and trying to see Krsna is almost impossible.