Krishna's pastimes as an infant - Question from Ananda Vrndavana Campu

Dear Vaisnavas,

In Mahanidhi Swami's presentation of Srila Kavi-karnapura's Ananda Vrndavana Campu (translated by Bhanu and Subhag Swamis), there is mention in the first chapter that Krishna's killing of the various asuras and his "babyhood" pastimes occur only in Gokula Vrndavana. I have heard explanations for Krishna killing demons only in Bhauma-Vrndavana, but I didn't know that he only appears as an infant during his Earthly pastimes. Does anyone know why this is so?

Unfortunately, I do not have the book in front of me so I cannot quote it. I will try to post the relevant translated passage soon.

Thank you.

Krishna is an eternal youngster in his aprakata-lila. Fifteen years, nine months and four and a half days to be precise. In that realm, there is no aspect of growing old. Hence, also no childhood pastimes.

[ I stand corrected. There are all varieties of pastimes there, it seems. Please read on and see my next post. ]

Thanks, Madhava. In the subsequent chapters of the book there was some hint of the answer that you provided, but I still wasn't certain. Much appreciated.

I had heard (from those studying under Sridhar Maharaj) that in the aprakata-lila (i.e. pastimes in Goloka, or the transcendent realm) there are "rumours of demons" rather than actual demons, which serve to intensify the rasa. Also that the childhood-and-youth pastimes cycle round and round, meaning that after Krishna grows up and leaves Vrindavan there is some sense in Yasoda of "Oh, I had a son and he left" but then that changes to "I want Krishna as my son" and then it all returns to the start of the lila again with Krishna's birth and going to Vrindavan as a baby. Or - I am getting this wrong and all this is the prakata-lila (i.e. pastimes in Gokula, or on "earth")?

I have never heard there are no childhood pastimes at all in Goloka. This idea surprises me and raises questions. For instance, if there are no childhood pastimes, then does that mean that those eternal nitya-siddha bhaktas in the mood of vatsalya rasa have some kind of "false memory" of an imagined childhood of Krishna, and the content of that memory was/is generated in the prakata-lila? If so, by who? Specifically, regarding nitya-lila parsadas like Mother Yasoda and Nanda Maharaj, did someone else (i.e. a sadhaka in the prakata-lila before returning to the aprakata-lila) generate the "memories" in the prakata realm, and then somehow transfer those ideas/memories to nitya-lila parsadas? How can that be if the nitya-lila is eternal?

I understand it's all being done by yogamaya in a general sense, but the specifics seem rather hard to understand. Can anyone expand on this to help answer my questions?

Some sastric quotes would be in order, but in the meantime, Sri Krsna is nitya kisora in Goloka, but from reading the lilas one gets the idea that they (the eternal associates) know all about Krsna's marvelous feats, and celebrate them by addressing him with names in referance to them, often with some madhura double meaning. This is another aspect of it's wonder. Like one really astonishing line in the 10th skandha when Krsna praises Balarama while roaming the forest, and it says ,"And the Primal Being thus addressed his elder brother."

Certainly they all know of these childhood pastimes, and the memory is by no means false, as they have all experienced it in the course of the prakata-lila.

I should add that both aprakata-lila and prakata-lila are considered nitya-lilas, since also the prakata-lila is constantly unfolding, in one universe after the other.

Looking up an old draft of Bhagavatamrita-kana I once put together, I found a depictive description of the eternity of prakata-lila, but also a surprising statement.



So it appears that Visvanatha says here that in aprakata-lila, all three appear at all times. This is somewhat of a surprise to me. Going to the sources, namely Rupa's Laghu-bhagavatamrita, I found the same confirmed:



So, I stand corrected in this regard. I wonder if this is something I have once heard in my "earlier education", or whether I've just assumed that based on the fact that Sri Krishna's eternal age in aprakata-lila is always given as a bit over 15 years, and the narrations on aprakata-lila invariably depict the astakaliya-lila.

We once had a lively discussion over this with Advaita, he had found a reference in Krishna(?)-sandarbha describing the source of the idea. Advaita, any clues? The correspondence is buried too deep in my folders right now to start digging it up.




This one you're getting wrong, I believe. There shouldn't be any "resetting" there, as described in the references I just posted, all those pastimes, and the astakaliya-lila in particular, are ever-unfolding there. There is no sequential manifestation, but rather simultaneity.

I read it in some Sandarbha some 20 years ago, cant remember which one, sorry.

This is the amazing thing about its inconcievability - beyond the mind - yet experience-able! Horay! Jai Radhey-Shyam! Jai Goura-Hari! Jai Nitai-Chand! Jai Guru-Vaishanava-gan!

Returning to the topic of childhood pastimes in the aprakata-lila. I inquired from my Baba about the matter a while back. He offered a very insightful reply, relating how in our aprakata-lila Sri Krishna is the eternal youngster despite the fact that theologically speaking it is all there. For example, those worshiping in vatsalya-rasa will come to find Sri Krishna as a young child in their aprakaTa-lIlA. Hence the divine dhAma is like a multi-faceted gem, offering each loving devotee the environment most suitable for Sri Krishna's relishing their perfected emotions.

The diversity in the dhAma is understood as akin to the diversity of various bhagavat-svarUpas, as in Sri Jiva's Krishna-sandarbha (172):



Praise to the wondrous abode hosting multitudes of lilas, serving as the vessel of endless rasa!

Sri Jiva confirms the predominence of Sri Krishna's youth in the aprakaTA-prakAza (ibid. 174):