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Speculation in here about one's svarupa -



gopidust - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:55:46 +0530
ohmy.gif I feel up to 99.9% of the speculation in here about one's svarupa could be completely maya. There is no one bonafide sampradaya spoken about in here and the devotees who do seem to talk about their svarupas never speak directly about their gurus, myself included, so how are we to believe what anybody says in here?
"One who follows their imaginations about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is condemned." purport, Srimad Bhagavatam 10.3.32
braja - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:19:47 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Sep 3 2004, 09:25 AM)
ohmy.gif I feel up to 99.9% of the speculation in here about one's svarupa could be completely maya. There is no one bonafide sampradaya spoken about in here and the devotees who do seem to talk about their svarupas never speak directly about their gurus, myself included, so how are we to believe what anybody says in here?
"One who follows their imaginations about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is condemned." purport, Srimad Bhagavatam 10.3.32

Care to share examples of people speaking about their svarupas here? Maybe I'm not reading attentively enough but I can only think of two examples, neither of whom were doing so in relation to any known Gaudiya teachings or lineage. I certainly don't think it has been done with such frequency that detailed statistics such as "99.9%" could be drawn from it. Maybe 100% or 2/2 might be more accurate. wink.gif

Of course, in a more general sense, Gaudiya ontology has been defined by Rupa Goswami et al and perhaps you are raising objections to that? The earlier sentence to that you have quoted from Prabhupada states:

QUOTE
One should try to understand the appearance and disappearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead from Vedic authorities, not from imagination.


...which of course, both puts that quote in context and points out the necessity of hearing from the Gaudiya acaryas.
Satyabhama - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:22:52 +0530
I also haven't noticed anybody revealing anything. Sometimes there are hints as to what type of feeling people feel towards Radha and/or Krishna. Like w/ you, Gopidust, everybody knows that you feel strongly for Radha, right? But beyond that, nothing is revealed. So... ?

smile.gif
Rasaraja dasa - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:04:47 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Sep 3 2004, 05:25 AM)
ohmy.gif I feel up to 99.9% of the speculation in here about one's svarupa could be completely maya. There is no one bonafide sampradaya spoken about in here and the devotees who do seem to talk about their svarupas never speak directly about their gurus, myself included, so how are we to believe what anybody says in here?
"One who follows their imaginations about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is condemned." purport, Srimad Bhagavatam 10.3.32

Dear Gopidust,

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

What website are you actually reading where there is "speculation in here about one's svarupa"?

"There is no one bonafide sampradaya spoken about in here" Can you please define what you believe to be the meaning of sampradaya?

Now there are several members here that come from several different parampara’s but that is quite different than sampradaya. Do you understand the difference?

Contrary to your opinion I would say 99% of the Vaisnavas here will be more than happy to speak of their Guru. Just because they aren't following the ISKCON model of "MY GURU IS BEST" doesn't mean there is a lack of confidence in ones Guru. It simply means that the Vaisnavas here respect one another and the parampara’s in which they are committed to and don’t feel the ned to promote one over another.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa
gopidust - Sat, 04 Sep 2004 04:21:55 +0530
rolleyes.gif Yes Parampara! That is the first time I heard that word in here. That is the term I was looking for.
I have doubts about other devotees paramparas in here because a pure devotee is very rare and if Srila Prabhupada is one, which Iskcon's believe, then there aren't too many left outside of him because how many can there be at any one time on the planet?
As for revealing svarupas, I started the thread I think and on the one hand made a fool of myself doing so and on the other hand I still think I had a glimpse of mine through causeless mercy. But I also feel I should not be talking about these things or else I am guilty of being in "the gopi bhava club". I don't want to disobey Srila Prabhupada and that is what I may have been doing. huh.gif
Rasaraja dasa - Sat, 04 Sep 2004 04:56:29 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Sep 3 2004, 02:51 PM)
rolleyes.gif Yes Parampara! That is the first time I heard that word in here. That is the term I was looking for.
I have doubts about other devotees paramparas in here because a pure devotee is very rare and if Srila Prabhupada is one, which Iskcon's believe, then there aren't too many left outside of him because how many can there be at any one time on the planet?
As for revealing svarupas, I started the thread I think and on the one hand made a fool of myself doing so and on the other hand I still think I had a glimpse of mine through causeless mercy. But I also feel I should not be talking about these things or else I am guilty of being in "the gopi bhava club". I don't want to disobey Srila Prabhupada and that is what I may have been doing. huh.gif

Dear Gopidust,

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

"Because a pure devotee is very rare and if Srila Prabhupada is one, which Iskcon's believe, then there aren't too many left outside of him because how many can there be at any one time on the planet?" Please tell me you are kidding...

Talk about underestimating the gift given by Gauranga and the mercy of Sri Radhika. Are you sure you have faith in Gauranga and Sri Radhikas divine service?

If ACBSP was so empowered it would reason that he would have created some of the "pure" devotees you are looking for. Afterall he did say that you judge a tree by it's fruits. Funny how we try to glorify one by cutting down others. ACBSP said if he creates one pure devotee his mission would be a success... I guess you see him as a failure. Too bad.

Again it speaks to a strong lack of faith in Gauranga and Sri Radhika to think there is a limit on "pure" devotees. What exactly is a "pure" devotee if I may ask?

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa
Madhava - Sat, 04 Sep 2004 04:56:46 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Sep 4 2004, 12:51 AM)
rolleyes.gif Yes Parampara! That is the first time I heard that word in here. That is the term I was looking for.

Oh shame on us. We haven't discussed the paramparA-topic enough, I suppose. Our friend, the search, turned up only some 150 instances of the term.


QUOTE
I have doubts about other devotees paramparas in here because a pure devotee is very rare and if Srila Prabhupada is one, which Iskcon's believe, then there aren't too many left outside of him because how many can there be at any one time on the planet?

I suppose the logic of "this town is too small for the two of us" applies here? I honestly believe that quite a few can fit in at the same time. At least they found room for each other at Mahaprabhu's time.

Visvanatha explains that there are countless jIvas, among whom some rare ones attain a human birth. Among thousand humans, one may endeavor for perfection, the ultimate good of human life. Among thousand who have attained perfection, one may know Shyamasundara in truth, ie. be a pure devotee. Since no endeavor goes in vain, eventually all who seek perfection will come to attain it, and thus it has been since beginningless time. With the current world population, there would be six million seekers, and six thousand perfected souls. With the minimum ratio of one per thousand (the kascin-variable), there would be a minimum of six or more persons who know Shyamasundara in truth at any given time. I don't think they would all always be in ISKCON.


QUOTE
As for revealing svarupas, I started the thread I think and on the one hand made a fool of myself doing so and on the other hand I still think I had a glimpse of mine through causeless mercy. But I also feel I should not be talking about these things or else I am guilty of being in "the gopi bhava club". I don't want to disobey Srila Prabhupada and that is what I may have been doing. huh.gif

You forgot to mention in the other post that it was 99% of your posts you were talking about. Oh well. smile.gif

[ Edited an error in the probability calculations. ]