History of ISKCON as a course? - Planning a Vaishnava course of study

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Jagat:
An entire course on the history of ISKCON?

What could possibly be the content? Is it not something that can be summarized in a few paragraphs, or am I missing something here? Sure, there are many details that could be covered, but of what value are they in the grand scheme of things? Please explain!

This wasn't something I thought through, but wrote a little facetiously for the sake of gopidust, who seemed to think that she could diss everyone here without any real understanding of anything, including Iskcon history. We could certainly remove that, including it in the history of Vaishnavism.

QUOTE(Mina @ Oct 30 2004, 08:36 AM)

An entire course on the history of ISKCON?

What could possibly be the content? Is it not something that can be summarized in a few paragraphs, or am I missing something here? Sure, there are many details that could be covered, but of what value are they in the grand scheme of things? Please explain!

Well, I'm not Jagat either but...

It is said that those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it. Thus to learn about ISKCON's ups and downs, successes and failures would be a good thing to know, especially when considering that majority of Vaishnavas these days are from ISKCON or at least have had something to do with ISKCON. It may help one to relate to the fellow ISKCONite.

Not to go into too much of a tangent here, but it's kind of like I've always thought that brahmacaris should be fully taught about grhastha life. Because for one 95% if not more brahmacaris get married and the training would help them. For two in the rare case that they don't marry the training will help them to better relate to grhasthas rather than the 'holier than thou' mode. -- Whether or not varnashram is really bona fide or necessary in modern times is another related but separate topic.

So to learn about ISKCON in a similar manner may actually be a good thing and may help one to learn about the modes or stages one goes through in ISKCON. And of course we can't forget to address the mISKCONceptions.

Ys,

QUOTE(purifried @ Oct 30 2004, 08:14 PM)

It is said that those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it. Thus to learn about ISKCON's ups and downs, successes and failures would be a good thing to know, especially when considering that majority of Vaishnavas these days are from ISKCON or at least have had something to do with ISKCON. It may help one to relate to the fellow ISKCONite.
...
So to learn about ISKCON in a similar manner may actually be a good thing and may help one to learn about the modes or stages one goes through in ISKCON. And of course we can't forget to address the mISKCONceptions.

I wouldn't however have this as a course you get credits for. Perhaps more along the lines of an additional course for immigrants to help them integrate better.

QUOTE(Madhava @ Oct 30 2004, 04:54 PM)

I wouldn't however have this as a course you get credits for.

In many universities you can get credits for "life experience." Many of us could thus get a few credits for putting our experiences down on paper. I've been formulating my own life experience paper lately. Tentative title: "Our Shadows Taller Than Our Souls."

The idea of studying ISKCON is a good one though as you get a great range of subject matter: religion, sociology, organizational studies, gender studies, psychology (group + individual + abnormal)...

Good points. Maybe a New Religious Movements course.

QUOTE(Jagat @ Sep 14 2004, 05:11 PM)

Year I. ...........
1. Introduction to World Religions (6 credits)
.......................

This will be equip the student with the basic skills and information necessary to appreciate, assess and compare the major religious streamsand to establish commonalities, divergences and outstanding particularities. The two semester course will be divided into 6 sections:-

I. Foundational: Methods and Tools for Scoping and Analysis
(contemporary best practice in comparaitive religion)
and Sources of Information
II. Historical Outlines and Socio-Economic Factors
III. Theological Outlines and Psycho-Spiritual Drivers.
IV. Religion and the Arts and Music
V. Religion and Healing.
VI. Vaishnavism and (elective comparison of any one other major stream)

to be continued .......

Well, as far as brahmacharis, we don't really have those here in the West, not in the strict sense of the term. Boys and girls date from an early age and premarital sex is the norm. We have a hard enough time just getting the teenagers to use practical common sense and use some sort of protection to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

As far as the ISKCON & GM leadership goes, what exactly is their official stance on us? I have had so few dealings with any of them since 1979, that I don't have a clue. I would tend to think that they run the gamut from outright hostile to friendly and supportive. Anyone have any information on this?

QUOTE(Mina @ Oct 31 2004, 11:04 PM)

As far as the ISKCON & GM leadership goes, what exactly is their official stance on us? I have had so few dealings with any of them since 1979, that I don't have a clue. I would tend to think that they run the gamut from outright hostile to friendly and supportive. Anyone have any information on this?

There is no official stance on us in particular, the official position in general is that one may not accept instructions from anyone outside ISKCON without the explicit permission of the GBC.

QUOTE

12.5.1. That since all the spiritual knowledge and instruction required is available in Srila Prabhupada's books and from ISKCON, no ISKCON member shall be allowed to seek spiritual instruction from any other person or institution outside of ISKCON without approval of the GBC body. Any member of ISKCON who willfully disobeys the above order will thereby sever his connection with ISKCON.

This excerpt is from the ISKCON Laws 1997 edition collected from various GBC resolutions. Elaborating on the statement above:

QUOTE

12.5.9 1. A: In obedience to the instruction of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the GBC directs that the members of ISKCON should respect all senior Gaudiya Vaishnavas outside ISKCON, but should not intimately associate with them, personally or through printed or recorded media, for guidance, teaching, instruction, or initiation as their presentation of Krishna consciousness often differs from that of Srila Prabhupada in emphasis, balance and other aspects of both teaching and practice.

B: This resolution is intended to apply categorically to all ISKCON members. ISKCON leaders' first responsibility is to give considerate direction, guidance, and counseling to any ISKCON devotees personally affected by this resolution so as to bring them back to the path set by Srila Prabhupada.

In any case, those who continue to act in violation of this resolution are subject to sanctions by temple presidents and GBC zonal secretaries, who may exercise their discretion to prohibit any such devotees from living on ISKCON properties or participating in ISKCON functions.

Those who persist in violating this resolution are cautioned they may be reported to the GBC Executive Committee for immediate action or action at the following year's annual GBC meeting. The Executive Committee is hereby given authority for the 1995-96 GBC year to suspend any violator from ISKCON.

2. That the members of ISKCON should regularly study Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Caitanya-Caritamrta, and the other books given by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The recent proliferation in ISKCON of literature focusing on "rasika-bhakti," intimate Radha-Krsna lila, and other subject matters suitable only for highly advanced souls, represents a departure from Srila Prabhupada's orders and obstructs the smooth spiritual progress of ISKCON devotees. ISKCON members should therefore avoid collecting, reading, discussing, or distributing such literature.

However, considering that nobody follows the GBC, including the GBC, it really leaves a broad range of approaches for leaders and followers alike. Some are friendly and supportive, some are curious and appreciative, some are uninformed and wary, while some are outright hostile. I would say a good majority falls in the mid-range. Yes, and then there are those who pretend to be in the mid-range while hiding all those nectar books in the closet behind lock and key.

Bizarre!

I don't recall ever being handed GBC resolutions in writing back in the 70s. They must have had some back then, since they were having their annual meetings in Mayapur. Are they disseminated to the rank and file these days?

I have them all on record. They don't seem to be available on the internet any longer. I can e-mail them to whomever it may interest, drop me a mail or PM me with your e-mail address.

QUOTE(braja @ Oct 30 2004, 04:45 PM)

QUOTE(Madhava @ Oct 30 2004, 04:54 PM)

I wouldn't however have this as a course you get credits for.

In many universities you can get credits for "life experience." Many of us could thus get a few credits for putting our experiences down on paper. I've been formulating my own life experience paper lately. Tentative title: "Our Shadows Taller Than Our Souls."

The idea of studying ISKCON is a good one though as you get a great range of subject matter: religion, sociology, organizational studies, gender studies, psychology (group + individual + abnormal)...

And Anthropology. Many of iskcon's basic problems came from the total lack of understanding of how two such disparate cultures would mix to the detriment of both.

And I like the life experience idea. Can we get credit for PAST life experience?

I see no reason why this should remain a dream. In the pagan movement there have been courses at major universities and I know that Starhawk's first book Dreaming the Dark was her thesis at the former Antioch West University. They had a whole course of study for women's spirituality. All you have to do is find a broad minded university and present proposals, maybe starting with a few courses and working up to a full curriculum.

I think it would be great and I would love to take some of these courses!