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Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Worshiping Sri Krishna without His Shakti? - Why is that?

Sri Hari - Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:54:57 +0530
Dear Madhava, thanks for this beautiful picture of Sri Syama Raya.

I have a question: In Gaudiya Vaishnava it is common to see
the Worship of Sri Sri Gouranga Mahaprabhu Radha Krishna all together. But we can see that there are great Vaishnavas like Gouridasa Pandita  and others that Worship just Sri Krishna (as in the case of Radha Ramana also) "isolated" I mean just Him without His Potencies next to. Could you please explan that if is it a  particular mood and how is that?

I  Hope my question makes any sense...

Your smallest servant
Harisaran das
Madhava - Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:49:32 +0530
I just realized I posted my article on Gauridas Pandit in the wrong forum, it was supposed to go into Sweet Pastimes. I edited everything accordingly, and this interesting question of Harisaran das remains.
Madhava - Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:57:54 +0530
In the Gaudiya line, upasana is always Yugal upasana, worshiping Radha and Krishna together. For example in the temple of Radha Raman, there is the crown of Sri Radha next to Radharaman Jiu to indicate Her presence. Besides Syama Raya and and Radha Ramana, we have for instance the example of Visvanatha's Gokulananda. I recall there are quite a few temples in Vraja like this. I find it hard to believe it would be a sign of a different mood of upasana, at least internally.

As for the reason why Sri Radha is not visibly present next to Him, unfortunately I don't have the answer at hand. I've been thinking about this myself on occasion. I believe Advaitadas can shed light on this.
Sri Hari - Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:12:12 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug. 21 2002,11:27)
As for the reason why Sri Radha is not visibly present next to Him, unfortunately I don't have the answer at hand. I've been thinking about this myself on occasion. I believe Advaitadas can shed light on this.

Radhe Radhe!

May Sri Krishna keeps everyone always in Bhajan!

Dear Madhava, I have been asking here and there about the above question and I did not get too many info. But anyway, talking to a Hindu friend of my he said : "before Sri Caitanya Deva, there was not worshiping of Sri Sri Radha Krishna together but only Sri Krishna. There maybe was something to represent Srimat Radhika, like Crown or Gunja-mala but not Herself." Then I thought and told him: what about the debate of
Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana(Govinda-bhasya) to prove that the Worship of Sri Sri Radha krishna was superior Sri Sri Laxmi Narayana. The Brahmanas of Sri Sri Laxmi Narayna poited that Sri Sri Radha Krishna were not marriage and there was not scriptural proves to support the Idea that They had to be Worshiped like that.
So my point for you is:  was Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakur the one who brought Sri Sri Radha Krishna's Worshiping into Gaudiya Line,in order to help the Sadhakas to enhance their Bhajan ?

If is possible for you, please think about this hints  and see what can you do to develop this questions.

Thank you

Harisaran das
Madhava - Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:18:28 +0530
Baladeva was involved in this famous debate in Jaipur. But no, it is not either Baladeva or Visvanatha who introduced this. Govindadeva was there with Radharani until the controversy arose. This debate was not exactly about the superiority of Radha-Krishna upasana over that of Laksmi-Narayana, but rather about the validity of the worship of Radha along with Krishna and the authority of the Gaudiya sampradaya. Prior to that, Radha had been worshiped along with Govinda there.

Aside Radha-Govindadeva, there are numerous other historical Deities which are Yugal. In fact, deities of Krishna alone in the Gaudiya tradition, all the way back to the Gosvamis, is more of an exception than a rule. I could scan in some of the pictures I have one of these days.
Sri Hari - Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:26:11 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug. 23 2002,21:48)
I could scan in some of the pictures I have one of these days.

smile.gif  Yes there will be nice for us to have this beautiful Darshan!
Radhapada - Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:30:06 +0530
Hundreds of years before the arrival of the Goswamis, Sri Jayadeva Goswami came to Vrndavan with his image of Sri Radha-Madhava and disappeared there.

Sri Rupa recovered the image of Sri Govindadeva and Sri Sanatana recovered Sri Madana Mohan, but there was no image of Srimati Radharani along side them at that time. Then soon after, the son of Prataparudra Maharaja, Sri Purosottama Jana, sent two images of Srimati Radharani for Them. He also sent an image of Srimati Radharani and Sri Jahnava Ma for Sri Gopinatha.

In the 7th century, Sankaracarya, with the purpose of protecting the Vedic religion from the non-vedic teachings of the Buddhist, made a rule that no religious community would be considered authentic unless they had a commentary on their perspective of the Vedanta Sutra. Till the time of the dispute in Jaipur that rule was still in effect. The Gaudiya Vaisnavas acaryas perceived the Srimad Bhagavata as the natural commentary on the Vedanta Sutra and therefore did not present a separate commentary. That and the argument that the worship of Srimati Radharani was not sanctioned in the sastras gave reasons for the Ramanadis in Jaipur to pressure the King of Jaipur to separate Sri Govindadeva from Sri Radha and to remove from service the Bengali Vaisnava brahmanas who were performing Their seva. Sri Baladeva rectified the situation by submitting the commentary entitled, 'Govinda Bhasya'. (Taken from The Glories and Heritage of Sri Radha Kunda by Ananta Das Pandit)
Sri Hari - Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:12:07 +0530
QUOTE(Radhapada @ Aug. 24 2002,06:00)
Them. He also sent an image of Srimati Radharani and Sri Jahnava Ma for Sri Gopinatha.

Dear Radhapada,thank you so much to help in developing this topic.Those are very important informations to understand how the Worshiping of Sri Sri Radha Krishna have been advancing all the way throughout the Centuries till now days.

My Question for is: Sri Jahnava Ma and Srimat Radhika with Sri Gopinatha, could you explain Their relations and what is the mood in Worshiping Them ? Or whatever you would like to add about this point.

Your servant
Harisaran das     :wink:
Radhapada - Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:44:15 +0530
Sri Gopinatha was recovered by Sri Madhu Pandit in Vamsivata in 1563 A.D. Sri Jahnava is an incarnation of Ananga Manjari, Sri Radha's younger sister. It is said that Sri Jahnava Devi disappeared by entering into Sri Gopinathajui in Vrndavan. In Sri Radha Kunda there is the sitting place of Jahnava Devi underneath a Bakul tree and right next to that is the temple of Sri Radha-Gopinatha and Jahnava Devi. In the center of Sr Radha Kunda in aprakata lila is the kunja of Ananga manjari.

A lotus shaped bower of sixteen petals, studded with jewels of emeralds, ruby, and moonstar is called Sri Ananga manjari Sukhada kunja, situated in the north of Sri Radha Kunda. Visitors upon looking at the bower, see it as a lotus floating on the water; therefore, it is called Salilakamala. Its norten side is beautified by a bridge. the kunja is well decorated with lotuses made of jewels, portaits and ducks.(Govinda Lilamrta 100-101)

Sri Jahnava Devi came to Radha Kunda to meet Raghunatha Das who was physically emaciated from his not taking food because of his feeelings of separation for Sri Radha. The Bhakti-ratnakar says, what words can describe the scene between the meeting of Srimati Jahnava Devi and Das Goswami.

What is the mood in worshipping them? Externally they are worshipped according to the principles of vaidhi regulations that are not opposed to the development of raga marg. The specifics on how they are worshipped externally, I don't know.