ACBSP, authentic lineages and more - Split from "Nitai's Bookstore"

Please don't assume we are all so backward as to think Vaisnavism started when our beloved ACBSP reached these shores.

I have never heard ACBSP refer to himself as if he were PDNO. Or even 2, 3, etc.

I believe his protectiveness was inspired by our massive ignorance and he wanted to personally guide our development as far as possible to keep us from offending others left and right. I believe that if he had had more time with us he would have gradually increased our exposure to the rest of our traditions adherents, as he saw that we could understand their traditions properly. I can only imagine his dilemma at trying to present information about Radha and Krsna and Their pastimes to a culture permeated with sex as ours is, worried that we would immediately misunderstand and project our mundane viewpoint. Now that he is not here, it is up to each of us to decide when we are ready to know more.

I apologize for anyone from this branch of the tree who has given offense during the period of quarantine that ACBSP felt was necessary.

Blessed Be--

Tapati

quarantine?

I am not so sure that was the case at all (please forgive me here, I am not trying to offend) but I do think there was a major difference between Svami Maharaja's understanding that he learned from Gaudiya Math/BSS and that of traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavas who practice raganuga coming in authentic parivars.
The outright comdemnation of those who practice siddha pranali as sahajiyas certainly shows that.
The belittleing of anyone else who follows other traditional lines of diksha and the paths of Raganuga as outlined by Sri Chaitanyas followers was and is still part of most who belong to GM and it's branches.
How could Svami Maharaja have given more advanced Rasika information at a later time when he himself did not learn it, and more so, openly spoke badly against those who followed it?
Also the Guru-parampara that was presented as the one and only is obviously questionable, but Svami Maharaja goes as far as to say in his introduction in CC adi-lila that unless one follows that Brahma Gaudiya line one will be bewildered and go to hell.

namaskar,

bangli

Dear Bangli,

I don't see the point behind your post really. There may be some differences in approach and general teaching, but I don't think your criticism of ACBS is warranted.

Why must you say that anyone who practiced according to what you term traditional or 'authentic' lineages was criticized? This simply is not true. Immature sadhakas from any lineage will foolishly engage in wanton criticism of those who follow a different lineage. This is unfortunate, but is certainly symtomatic of kanisthas who live and breathe in all institutions and lineages.

What I find ironic is that those who cry foul and try to say how blasphemous the GM lineage is are constantly belittling the lineage and making comments like you did that they can't give rasika teachings etc. In other words - the lineage is lacking in some way and the only remedy is to go elsewhere. Now, I ask you plainly - how can you find fault with others while engaging in the exact thing you find fault with them for?

Tapati is quite correct, ACBS did insulate his sisyas just like a gardener will protect a young tree so that it won't be damaged by deer and other animals that may either stunt it's growth or kill it. To take the analogy further, as the tree grows it will grow beyond it's protective barrier and enounter all those elements that in an immature stage would have harmed it. Likewise, as devotees grow in devotional service they obviously come in touch with so many conceptions that may have been detrimental in an early stage of development. This is really all that Tapati was saying - so why take it as an opportunity to belittle the lineage she is indebted to?

The term PDNO that Nitai so sarcastically used is not something that ACBS promoted and I am quite sure he would find it just as repugnant as most sadhakas naturally do. Obviously there are some people who claim to follow ACBS who promote such ideas and it is to them that such criticism may justifiably be directed. ACBS also did not ban his followers from reading books by other authors. He did say on a number of occasions that his followers should read his books first - not an unreasonable request I might add.

Audarya-lila dasa,

I very much disagree with a lot of what you say here, it is simply not accurate history at all I am sorry to tell you and will leave it at that.

I apologize if anyone is offended by my post, that was not my intention.

namaskar

I am sure that ACBSP was also following his understanding of what his own Guru Maharaj said about the traditions, I was simply talking about his discouragement of his disciples from associating with other branches or lines. I think he was like an overly protective father because we were so backwards. Now that some of us are more adult (hopefully anyway) we may choose at this time to learn more. I am saying that he may have allowed us to apply our more adult discrimination but he left when we were still very childish indeed (as evidenced by our collective behavior, alas). As to those who say our disciplic succession has a "break" in it somewhere, I am not a purist about such things so that does not concern me.

I don't recall an instance of my Guru Maharaj actually condemning your tradition but he may have been overanxious that we not misinterpret such things with our mundane vision. Perhaps he overstated his case with that in mind.

No offense taken and I hope none given, I was mainly reacting to the pure devotee number one phrase. My Gurudev was so humble that I was genuinely hurt by that reference.

I myself would never want to comment in such a way as to insult someone else's Guru. I support everyone in following their path, including Nitai.

Blessed Be

Tapati,

I appreciate your post here very much, and I appreciate your not taking offense as I meant none at all.
I also appreciate much of what Svami Maharaja has done in spreading Sri Chaitanyas message to the west.

namaskar,

bangli

Thank you, I'm glad we settled that. Let's hope for greater understanding and tolerance on the part of every twig and branch. It's a big, beautiful tradition with plenty of room on the tree for everyone. There is no shortage of bhakti!

Blessed Be-

Tapati

Whew! Another hot topic. They seem to ignite every so often in these chat rooms, don't they? Is is warm in here, or is it just me?

Hopefully the dust has settled for the time being.

Srimati Tapati Ji - I appreciate your gracious and charitable attitude towards others, and that is an admirable trait. However, it is clear that GM intended to burn its bridges behind it just like the French impressionists did with all of the master painters that came before them. I do not really think that Prabhupada would have changed his position at any time regarding the protectionism he fostered within his institution. That is because there was no evidence at any time for that to have been a possibility. Nitai knows this all too well, having perhaps more first hand knowledge of it than anyone else on the planet.

Well,

As I said before (and again I mean absolutely no offense) the whole stance that Gaudiya Math has of siddha pranali practice being sahajiya speaks for itself. They have a very big misunderstanding in regards to what Raganuga practice is period and what an authentic parivar actually is.

Frankly many of us are tired of having to walk on eggshells around those with such misunderstandings and inaccurate conclusions.

Radha Kunda babaji was/is a dirty word in Iskcon/ Gaudiya Math and it has not changed much.

namaskar,

bangli

Well, I for one have absolutely no quarrel with your devotional tradition or practices, and yes, I read the faq. I don't have it confused with "sahajiyas" and I am sorry if our tradition parted company with yours over this issue. I am obviously not a purist (no two pagans agree on much of anything, really) and I have my own teachers that many would disapprove of.

I don't think anyone got burned here. I personally was simply standing up for the true humility of my Guru Maharaj. I may not follow all of his teachings, yet I will always love him dearly.

I hope someday the branches will be mended and the tree will be whole again.

Blessed Be*

Tapati

Tapati dasi,

You are way cool, and an exception no doubt!

namaskar,

bangli

You are very kind. I am sure there are others like me around.

Let's let Nitai get back to selling books-

Your servant,

Tapati

In exchanges with one of the moderators here on encouragement for an protection of the innocent, lessons on humility, and following one’s path (among other things) the following bit of correspondence I received seems to fit nicely with this thread as well. So here it is:

“But in general, in the bhakti path, we lead by bhakti, and only follow with other viritues. Encourage bhakti, and then encourage other virtues because they are favorable to bhakti. But in general, I prefer not to accuse people of vicious motives or character flaws, because most people consider themselves to be sincere and honest, for the most part. When the time comes for them to realize they are wrong, they do.

Everything that happened in Iskcon, etc., was to give all of us a grand collective sense of shame. Most of us now have a little better idea of how the human virtues play a role in the culture of bhakti. But we started out with a devil-may-care bhakti attitude that had a very powerful transformative act on our consciousness. We put everything into bhakti and guru-seva, as we understood it, but when we neglected the virtues we fell into aparadha and got smacked around a bit. The entire movement got smacked around, and will continue to be smacked around until it learns the lessons.

But the primary lesson--that of the scriptures--remains fundamentally unchanged. Bhakti leads, everything else follows. If you see bhakti, encourage it, because bhakti engenders bhakti, in the person being encouraged, in the encourager, and in those who are bystanding.”

Hari bol!

Tapati Mathaji wrote:
"...As to those who say our disciplic succession has a "break" in it somewhere, I am not a purist about such things so that does not concern me...."

I Agree.