Chanting a lakh each day - How and why we can chant one lakh of Nam

Greetings Everyone!
I would love to start an inspiring and educational discussion on the possibilities of completing 1 lakh of Nam each day. I have been accomplishing 1 lakh each day for quite awhile and it use to take me 3-4 hours. I thought that was ok, until I talked with a guru-brother one day where he mentioned that 1 lakh might take 2-3 hours. I thought wow! cool! and then found within a few days that I could indeed do 1 lakh in 3 hours and then after a few more days that it could be done in 2 and 1/2 hours quite consistantly. This is so wonderful to me that soon I hope to get back to doing 2 lakhs each day! I know it takes some years of practice to get the time down without losing quality, but it can be done! This is the first thing I want to convey - if I can do it - then everyone can! This is the good-news. Thank you.

Thank you JD33, a topic (or many) along these lines would be most welcome!

The japa you speak of is evidently done in the mind?

For those among us who wonder why the time spent in each round seems to be so short, being accustomed to the "16 rounds is two hours" formula, suffice it to say that over a third of the time spent in the "muttering only when exhaling" is spent in inhalations which interrupt the japa. Moreover, people who do this tend to inhale very fast and prolong the exhalation during which the japa is chanted, and this irregularity in breathing just messes up the flow of prANa, slackening your ability to focus. The lack of focus, again, makes your mind wander and leads it astray from japa rather consistently, which makes you take ages for one mAlA.

For me, one round of fairly peaceful and concentrated japa takes around three minutes, and I absolutely do not feel like I am rushing it through. With further focus, and as the name is chanted over prolonged times, I am certain it will be even swifter without your even noticing it, as the name grabs you by the mind and drags you along through the alleys of bhajana.

I should add, for those of you wondering, that of course the idea is not "to get it done fast". However, all the "idling" we leave in between the flow of harinAma generally only serves to give room for distractions, and hence nAma-japa is best served intense.

Let us all try to shape up on our japa a bit for the duration of Niyama-seva and beyond. (Cough-cough!)

This is a very good topic, indeed. Especially, at this time while we are into Niyama-seva.



Yes, let us all start that without coughing or sighing though.

But 1 lakh? No way! I only finish where I start.

Madhavaji
Could you give a quick summary of chanting in the mind? Ie, your specific routine?

1. Chant.
2. Don't move your lips.

Doesn't Someone sit in your heart and keep chanting all the time while you work?

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

I have been working on increasing my daily quota but as with most that are married with young children the challenge is not just finding the time for concentrated japa but also the right time. As I have increased my amount of japa I have more on ensuring that I don't increase the number while decreasing the quality. In my limited experience there is more benefit chanting 32 rounds, or whatever one can chant peacefully while managing to work, care for children, etc., with a focus on quality than in promising a specific amount of rounds in which one can only complete with a sacrifice on quality.

As for silent verse spoken I have found silent to be more helpful to the quality. It is easy to allow repetition of spoken japa to become mechanical and let the mind think of everything other than the names while mental japa is just that; the mind is absorbed in the names. I still do, at times, chant spoken japa as I believe there are at times advantages to such but all in all I have found my quality increase with silent japa. As for the length of time I have found it is shortened yet at the same time I also find myself slowing down more as I experience certain aspects of japa.

Another interesting thing for me is that I find evening to be a bit more conducive to concentrated japa. All in all the start of each day is filled with excited children, getting ready for school/work and anticipating everything that lies ahead that day. I have found a favorite practice is to put my youngest son to bed and sit next to my open bedroom window and chant. The combination of breeze, quiet and the mental/physical end of the day allows me to drift into my japa and experience it a bit more.

In the coming weeks I will begin to wane my youngest son from sleeping in bed with me. I plan that once we get through that transition I will begin to rise a bit earlier to chant and perform worship of our deities before I leave for work each day. All in all the only difficulty I see is developing the proper disciplines to my mind to allow me to experience these practices at the start of the day without being distracting by the upcoming day.

In the next few years as my children mature I believe that I can accomplish 1 quality lakh per day along with daily worship. I admire JD33's focus on such and hope to hear of everyones successes as to what comes from the focus on japa.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Madhava - I do my japa Upamsu - or quietly to my self with or without sound, but the togue/lips are moving. I find, for now, this to be the best for me in quality and quanity. I love to taste the name and this is the way for me to do it. I actually go back and forth to Manasic japa as well. I will see how that changes in time.

Thank you Rasaraj - I love to hear of your thoughts and experiences, especially as a loving father deals with bringing up children, making a living, etc - it touches my heart. The funny thing is that by doing more japa - we get more practice and hence more profecient (if you will). So that by doing 2 lakhs per day we can get get real good at doing one lakh per day.

Nitai Dasji has called a my attention to a wonderful passage in Manidranath Guha's book 'Namamrita-SindhuBindu' in which he sites the CC adi-lila, ch#8, verse 26 relating to the power of the holy name to give prembhakti:

"ek krsna name kore sarva-paponash, premer karan bhakti koren prakash"

There is a refernece also to both destroying sin and for the individual to not create it to begin with for the 'bhakti leading to prema' to arise.

Hello Everyone! Jai Sri Radhe!

A few things to report. We know we want quality in repeatition of the holy name as a practice. In India Sadhus don't have the type of time consciousness that we have here. For them it is easy to accomplish the 1 lakh (64 rounds) that the Caitanya Vaisnava tradition does, as there is plenty of time, having no other major responsibilities of Jobs and families. Here in the "West" we are very time conscious and need to take this into account. Therefore it is good to talk about how we can schedule in our day to day activities the time to sit and do our Japa practice. If we know that eventually the time will come, by sincere concentrated practice of Japa, that we will be able to do a relaxed fully attentive 64 rounds of japa in two hours - then that is a goal worth working towards......right?

It can be done:
Just this morning I arouse from bed 1 hour earlier than normal, bathed,ect and started my Japa. To my surprise I was doing the full mantra Japa rather fast and thought the way this is going I may complete 64 rounds in 2 hours; and so I presevered and sure enough, with some tense effort added, I completed the 64 rounds in exactly 2 hours (I sit in half lotus and with eyes closed and do 2 rounds, then open eyes, count 2 beads on my counter mala and glance at the clock.). ok - cool - now that I have several more hours before dawn (to do my other practices) I will do another lakh (64 rounds), but this time 100% relaxed - finished 4 minutes within 2 hours (I was warmed up from the first 64 rounds). This does takes a number of years of continous, concentrated practice to get this proficient, but what a wonderful thing. The practice becomes lucid in some way and one finds one can easily concentrate on the holy name at a very fast pace and not loose any quality to the name itself - this must be how my Param Guru was able to complete 7 lakhs of Nam each day. That would be 14 hours or less, and for a solitary practioneer that is not unheard of.

I hope this info helps inspire. Best to everyone.

JD33

I'd like to thank JD for this topic. I am certainly finding inspiration from it. I would hope that JD would tell us about some of the secondary effects of chanting, which I am sure would be of interest to many devotees here.

Perhaps if you gave a link to your web page and explained exactly what it is that you do, how it works, how it affects the rest of your spiritual life, etc., how you discovered this particular method, etc., would further inspire faith in the Holy Name.

Jai Radhe.

By the way, we just had a two hour blackout. So there was nothing else to do but chant. Not often that I am in that position...

I recommend holding the japa bag over the heart, with the left hand cupping the bottom of the bag. I find that this adds to my concentration.

Not just japam but all devotional activities take time. As has been stated that more time is available to those without families, not living in the West, working long hours, etc. Even in India many Vaisnavas (and non Vaisnavas) have amended their practice to the essentials and forego the lengthy traditional daily observances. Some of the following are examples of how this is being done.


Not observing the requisite rituals and mantras to be performed upon waking.

Use of modern bathroom (and techniques) rather than traditional methods of mala-mutrotsarajana vidhi.

Taking bath in the house rather than in a standing body of water (without the accompanying rituals)

Skipping or reducing the number of tilakas applied (or applying them with water only).

Reducing the salutation to the guruparampara to the bare minimum (sri gurubhyo namah).

Reducing the materials collected in Upadanam by offering substitute items or doing more manasa puja.

Doing 2 or more sandhya vandanas in the morning before work (and reducing the number of japas in each) (Or worse not doing them at all)

Reducing the number of diksha mantra japas (and/or not performing the prerequisite japangas, like acamana, pranayama, sankalpa, sattvika tyaga, dhyana, etc.)

Not performing twice daily samidha dhanam (brahmacaris) or daily aupasana homam (grhasthas)

Not performing tarpana either as part of bath or seperately.

Not observing parisecanam and other rituals when eating.

Not taking the required number of baths per day as per one's ashram.

Not saying acamana (or making a shortened acamana or only one acamana) at appropriate times.

Not observing naimittika karmas, or other religious events.

Some dvijas have not even kept sikha and sutra, let alone kept up their study of the Veda. While some still perform the mandatory brahma yajna (but only with the first 4 verses of the Veda)

Not studying or caring to know or follow the details of the Pancangam

Not doing daily study of the Sastras (svadhyaya).

When, oh when there will be the days that I can chant the holy names constantly!

That's why the Holy Name is the practice for the Kali Yuga.

Madhava I don't know about the people you are referring to but there is nothing, in principle, wrong with the longer exhalation. In fact much of pranayama aims at developing this in a relaxed way (rather than by force). I can vouch for this from many perspectives - as a flute player, long distance runner. and unpuffable Harinam dancer. In japa, full exhalation (but without force) should actually assist focus, especially if you have established a cycle (eg 4 Mahamantra recitations per exhalation - 1 round with every 27 breaths).

Forums members may also be interested in Buteyko breathing system and see whether it has any relevance to this discussion.

What about doing japa and reading lila katha at the same time. I used to do that alot and found it very absorbing. Some might say it's cheating, but surely yena kena prakarena manah krsna nivesayet. But at the momment Krsna wont let me do it.

As for all those vidhis that Kesavaji refers to, and points out that dvijas should be observing these things. Can any western born person ever attain dvija status?

In ISKCON days I used to think I was a brahman, but since then I realise what a farsical notion it was. I have the body of an English bus driver, where does that fit in to being a vaidik brahman. This is not a challange, but an expression of my own confusion.

Just do achaman every time you sell a ticket to a non-brahmin passenger, and wipe the driving wheel and your seat with cow dung if the driver of the previous shift wasn't a brahmin. Yes, and try to get the bus stuck in a traffic jam around noon-time to get the time for your mid-day sandhya-vandana.

Honestly, I would not worry about it. You needn't be a brahmin for bhakti-sadhana, though of course some archan is very recommended to keep your habits generally pure. But one needn't be a brahmin to engage in archan.

Jagat (and everyone else!) - Thank you for your input - I will respond in more depth soon. As far as japa mala bag - I myself hold it in one of 4 positions at any given time. I do also find it worderful to hold it at the heart level!, but with my other hand down relaxed and once in ahile like you do with the other hand underneath the bag. Sometimes I hold the bag a litle below that at the solar plexus area (diaphram area). and otherwise at my right knee and in my lap as well, both with a wool or other clean cloth underneath.

I have noticed something the last few days I never was conscious of before. I have been spending time practicing the three different ways of doing the japa: When I do japa out loud - (like Sri Manindranath Guha) I find the energetic attention to be focused more in the lower part of the upper body - diaphrame and stomach areas. Very physical and grounding. When I do nam seva quietly to myself or silent, but with my mouth or tongue moving, I become naturally focused in the throat area and ears, etc and in the mind - I think of the name and how I love the holy name. Now that I am getting back into purely mental japa (in the mind with no movement of the mouth, lips or tongue) it is quite noticibly different - (I see why most of us end up practicing this way! ) - is that my awareness and concentration go to the forehead area (and inside the head itself) and affect (as far as I can tell) both the glands there (pituatary and pineal) with a wonderful illuminating effect - quite appropiate for smaranam - rememberance of Yugal Kishore.


more soon. regards.

My personal experience is that pranayam goes better with diksha mantra than Harinam. This comes out of the dual concept of "mantra-mayi" and "svarasiki" approaches to smaranam. The diksha mantra requires a short burst of intense concentration, which pranayam helps as a kind of springboard. Though the same applies to Harinam (i.e. "springboard pranayam"), I don't find it particularly useful as a sustained practice.

So my recommendation is to chant one round of diksha mantra (18-akshara) using a pranayam rhythm suitable to your own physiology. When chanting Harinam, keep your yogic asan, etc., but don't try sustaining pranayam, only using the breath from time to time to recapture the mind when necessary. Otherwise it is a useless distraction.

Yes, there is certainly nothing wrong with this from the point of view of pranayama. However, traditional pranayama follows a formula of 1 in, 2 holding and 4 out, instead of an erratic gasp gasp (generally through the mouth, not the nose) and out it goes until you feel an urge to return to the gasp gasp stage again.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that one needn't interrupt japa for the sake if inhaling. Let the mantra flow in and out with the breath.

right

Madhava - right - keep it simple - thats usually the best.

This topic can be a venue for us to explore our experiences with the Holy Name and what we go through to serve the Holy name. I hope we can do this and benefit ourselves and each other.

Thank you everyone for participating here - it was nice while it lasted.

Who says it's over?

Many of our threads are like quality japa -- sometimes dozing off for a while, and then regaining new vigor and inspiration.

Radhe Radhe !

Just to make sure JD33 does not misunderstand me; you are doing a great Seva!


Have a nice Niyama-Seva; Radha-Seva!

Hare Krishna!

Maybe JD33 and others would care to comment on the following article I read a while back on the net. I forget where. By this assessment 64 (murmurring) rounds in under 2 hours which has been claimed by JD33 is impossible:

High Speed Japa: the Math

Jagat, can you give any pramana for specifically japam as opposed to sankirtana being the yuga dharma? Also apart from Mahaprabhu's pronouncement that one should chant a lakh of hari nam (assumed to be Hare Krsna mantra) is there a pramana that the Harinam that is chanted should specifically be Hare Krsna mantra? (We all know Kalisantaranyopanisad so apart from that).

Your comment about rejecting some of the more complex traditional nitya kriyas is accepted however that does not mean that all these other nitya karmas are rejected even by Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Is it not true that we all take bath, etc, etc. Surely there are some nitya karmas which are considered essential along with the japa of Hare Krsna? If not, then why spend time, better spent chanting Hare Krsna, in putting on tilaka, etc? Also why don't Gaudiya's Krsnize all these other activities by using Hare Krsna mantra to put on tilaka or at least names of Krsna rather than the names of Visnu? There are Ram Bhaktas who ONLY speak the name of Ram and nothing else, would this not be more in line with Gaudiya philosophy.

(Obviously I have my own ideas about these things. I see them as part of the older forms of the generic Vaisnava cults. And again I voice my disregard for the philosophy of numbers of names being more important than quality. Quality by the way can be increased by the addition of the japangas such as acamana, asana, pranayama, dhyana, etc all of which are actually recommended in HBV)

Yes, I agree 100%. Pranayama is very good before gayatri japa or pancaratric mantra japa. Naturally during Sandhya Vandana one will do 10 pranayamas if one has time before gayatri japa and pranayama is performed many other times in nitya sadhana.

It seems that Hare Krsna japa is dealt with seperately from other japas by some Gaudiyas. It would not be so in other sampradayas. In other sampradayas there would be a difference between the japangas observed before formal japa of any mantra and the lack of the same when that mantra is chanted out loud in kirtan or bhajan.

I have found that pranayama before any chanting helps calm my mind and allow me to concentrate (acamana, sankalpa, nyasa, and chanting of a dhyana sloka also is a great help).

By the way I have found that pranayama helps me with my free diving and also scuba. Similarly my free diving and scuba help me with my pranayama. In scuba we also try to breathe slowly and deeply and exhale more slowly. However in scba, unlike free diving, one should not hold the breath.

Actually traditional pranayama is done in the ratio of inhaling 1, holding 4 and exhaling 2. I think you got the ratios for holding and exhaling switched.

Vedic pranayama involves the chanting of Omkara with the 7 vyahrtis for inhaling, the gayatri to holding and the gayatri siras mantra for exhaling.

Pancaratric pranayama invloves the chanting of bija aksaras (ie Klim) in the ratio described above. Preferably in the ratio of 16:64:32. (I would think that this takes a lot of practice)

Personally I find the article distasteful in all of its self-righteousness in judging others' japa, even bringing it to the point of ridicule at times. That aside, it is fairly well rooted in the IGM box, and more specifically the ISKCON box, so much so that it is, in my view, quite irrelevant. To begin with, the ISKCON "out loud" way of japa is fairly different from the mainstream, and even from the various Gaudiya Maths.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Had I double checked that by doing some instead of typing without thinking, I'm sure I would have figured out the same.

Right, but apart from Vaidic Sandhya Vandana there are no specificly brahmanical rites that are extra for a Vaisnava brahmin over what a Vaisnava non-brahmin does. In the ancient times of course brahmins did samida dhanam and aupasana homas and study of the Veda but this is not done by any but the most orthodox these days.

There are however other nitya kriyas that are NOT brahmanical but simply Vaisnavic which are also being neglected these days. Like ritualistic bath and tarpana. Usually westerners think that these things should only be perfromed by brahmins however Vaisnavas of all castes traditionally perform them. And although Vaidic Sandhya Vandana is only for brahmins, tantric (agamic or pancaratric) sandhya is to be performed by all.

There is an idea amongst some in India that non-dvijas and women should be forbidden to chant mantras or at least the Veda or Omkara. Most Vadakalai Sri Vaisnavas still follow this tradition and give the mantra "AM namo narayanaya" instead of "OM namo narayanaya" to non-dvija's and women (of all castes). This idea is rejected by Tenkalai Sri Vaisnavas who permit non-dvija's and women to chant Omkara. This is similar to the move that ACBVS made when he gave gayatri to his women disciples although they do not receive it in the GM. Or to the move that SBSST made by giving gayatri to those males not born in dvija families in the GM.

Actually Tenkalai Sri Vaisnava brahmin Acaryas praise those born in non-dvija families. They say that they are lucky not to be burdened with the compulsory practices that brahmins (and other dvijas) have to do (ie Vedic Sandhya).

It is not that it is only assumed. The account of Chaitanya Bhagavata is rather clear when it comes to japa. The confusion has been over kirtan. Vrindavan Das Thakur describes Mahaprabhu's instructions to Tapana Mishra in his Caitanya Bhagavata (1.14.143-147) as follows:



The maha-mantra appears again in Caitanya Bhagavata (2.23.75-78), in the words of Mahaprabhu himself:

Yes, I agree that it is self-righteous and the tone definitely seems not to encourage chanting of a lot of japa (ie more than 16 malas). However I do agree with the author's basic idea which seems to be to emphasize the quality over the quantity. I have no objection to both if it is achievable.

However I personally prefer a more rounded practice including all the basic nitya kriyas and japangas with a distinct emphasis on quality rather than quantity.

Personally I do not see the advantage of quantity (unless one's mood is that one cannot get enough). In Sri Vaisnavism the phala or result is offered up to the Lord anyway in a process called satvika tyaga. One does not accept the benefits of chanting. It is performed as a kainkarya or service just as other kainkaryas like arcana are.

I believe in this, Keshava, we ought to draw a difference between japa of diksha-mantra and japa of harinam. It is fairly common that people observe stricter regulations with regard to the former.

In regards to the idea of offering the phala of the japa to Bhagavan, if we seek the phala of the treasure of prema, or the treasure of the growth of our bhakti, then how shall we offer that? I fail to see how that could have much to do with sattvika-tyaga, given that the process itself is not conceived of as something that seeks a phala (such as pious merit or whatever) as such to begin with.

Actually, this article tallys with my personal experience. 16 spoken/murmured rounds do usually take about the time listed.

Time is usually shaved by either cutting off vowels when speaking (har ram har ram har har), chanting on the in breath, and other 'bad habits', bringing a '5 second round' into the 1h 45 min area.

The article is a bit one sided, presuming out loud chanting only, which as has been mentioned several times seems to be more distracting that mental chanting. And I wasn't thrilled about the comments on slow chanters Now that I think about it, it seems that in out loud chanting, speed is inversely related to quality, slow chanting holds the Name on the lips... in (my) mental chanting, speed pumps the Name into the head.

Since the advent of these threads, I have seriously tried to move to mental only chanting, and it has made a huge difference. Not in time/quantity, but I feel just in the last week or so my quality has improved considerably. Many thanks for these threads!

Personally I wonder how relevant it is to pronounce out loud and clear every single detail, rather than having the names penetrate your mind during the japa. I mean it isn't like we're in some linguistic concentration camp or something.

That aside, addressing the issue in general in terms of pronounciation, whether in the mind or vocally, in Hare, the "e" definitely may not drop, since (1) it is a long vowel, and (2) lack thereof would cancel the vocative, our calling out. However, as far as Krishna and Rama go, the final A frequently disappears or transforms in a number of Indic languages. For example, in Bengali the "a" of rAma disappears, and the "a" of kRSNa transforms into an "o":ish sound, being an inherent vowel. The same frequently happens to the "a" in hare.

Why is chanting on the in breath a bad habit?

On another note, on the totally vocal japa in the "out loud" ISKCON:ish style, I do not find it problematic to pronounce the maha-mantra "out loud and clear" and very distinctly, and may I add, "comfortably", in about three seconds, which the article labels as "keep dreaming".

However I rarely do such japa, as it almost invariably produces problems in the long run if you try to aim well beyond than your 16 quota.


Not to mention how distracting it is for others! Yes, "bless the world and chant it out loud", but have mercy on your fellow japa:ers (how do you say it, japakas?) who are trying to concentrate on their own japa instead of reaping the benefits from your japa. I personally cannot stand it when I am trying to do my japa and someone chants "out loud" in the same room. It practically removes your possibilities for inner focus. To this, the only remedy would be to chant "out louder" so as to cover the noise of the other chanter. Personally I prefer the "out the door" solution.

As a general principle, we may want to focus more on the "input" of the japa than the "output" of it.

I am surprised no one has commented on Buteyko. I am not consciously a practitioner of it. There is an emphasis against hyperventialtion, no holding the breath after inhalation, a longer out breath and no immediate inhalation after exhaling (what I call lull in breathing).

Analysing my own japa rhythm I notice something like this happens, partly deliberate, the balance naturally:-

1. several audible recitations with long exhalation, then
2. mental japa during lull in breathing (after the exhalation and before inhalation)
3. duration of 2 increases with time and state of relaxation and spiritual condition.

Also I recommend japa to start very slowly, like 1 repitition every 20 seconds or so - as an invocation. This may invoke the appropriate raaga for the season, time and mood of your devotion. The raag may rise spontaneously through the slow chant in which you are drawing out every syllable like drawing water from a well.

The raag will itself decide the speed and the faster stage will be effortless.
Every Raag a Gopi and every sitting a new song.
In such a way our devotions are offered at the feet of the Pure Devotees.

Please try before you decry

Yes, it seems to be the common practice amongst Gaudiyas, but why? Hare Krsna mantra is a Vedic mantra coming as it does in Kalisantaranyopanisad just as astaksara comes in Narayanopanisad, so why the difference?



The Sri Vaisnava idea is that whatever phala is supposed to be gained by an action should be offered to the Lord. The Lord Himself is the only upaya or means.

No bIja, no final svAhA or namaH. That's the general idea. Therefore, thought the maha-mantra is certainly mantra in the sense that it truly fulfills the meaning of the word, it is not strictly speaking a dIkSA-mantra into whose chanting one must be initiated, and therefore the conventions of archan do not apply as strictly.

Hi everyone!

Regarding Nama Japa - Quality is the most important thing - I think we take that from the begining of this thread.

The interesting thing about many things we do in life is that after 10-20 years of doing something for many hours everyday - one can get very proficient at it. Thus the tabulations of someone who does 16 rounds a day will not understand what happens when one is doing 8 times that amount for many years. In the begining of my practice 64 rounds took me close to 8 hours - it was very hard to fit that in the day filled with other activities as one can imagine. As the months and years go by the time it takes to do Quality Japa lessens to what: 3 hours or so. With some added concentration and intention one can do 64 rounds in 2 hours. It is a technique of what seems to be leaving out the unnessary short a sylables - which the mind finshes mentally, sort-to-speak. in 2 hours it is not the absolutley cleanest, fully pronounced repetitions - the good news is that one can get that in 2 1/2 hours! Hurray! btw - out loud vocal japa takes more time than the other two methods.

Note: some days japa is slower or faster than other days. Japa is slower when begining - then it speeds up as one warms up.

Last thing is that time is a consideration when one has a daily commitment of rounds and other obligations , etc. Easily understandable. Plus in Caitanya Vaishnavism (at least with my blessed Teacher) we try to work to doing 3 lakhs each day = 192 rounds. So time is a consideration, with me at least.

I hope this is recieved well. Regards.

btw - very interesting views of the Sri liniage - thank you Keshava for sharing.

That seemed to be the implication from the article: Tho granted I read this as 'breathe in, between' instead of 'breathe inbetween'...


On this, I remember first hearing the 'japa tape' of ACBS & scratching my head.. 'its supposed to sound like that?'

OK, I know that Hare Krsna mantra is vocative and in anustup metre etc, and does not conform to what we mostly see other pancaratric mantras like sad aksara, astaksara, astadasaksara, or dvadasakshara. But if we look at Hari Bhakti Vilasa several diksha mantras are discussed among them is the Nrsimha Anustup mantra which is more like a sloka like the Hare Krsna mantra. Surely this also does not fit the normal scheme of things like the other pancaratric mantras. By the way it also comes from Nrsimha Tapani Upanisad.

PS. Sri Vaisnava's also have (Krsna) carama sloka (gita 18.66) which is a diksha mantra along with both Rama and Varaha carama slokas from the Ramayana and Puranas respectively.

So it seems that mantras and slokas from just about anywhere can be diksha mantras.

I don't know if many people know this but the ACBVS japa tape is a tape of ACBVS chanting on someone's beads at an initiation ceremony (there is also the famous "sit properly" command given in the middle of this tape directed to a disciple). It is NOT the way he used to chant normally. I have been on morning walks with his divine grace and at least my personal experience is that his japa was very soft (inaudible to others) and not loud at all.

For most people anyways. I can speak and chant much more rapidly than the average person, but then I may be wired a little differently. They say that the higher one's IQ, the more likely they will have that ability. Some days for me it is easier than others. Maybe I should go in for a brain scan?

They say the bigger one's heart the slower it need throb.


Now children! Look at the stillness in Tai Chi. Such beauty and power in the heart of all action.

Hi there - will anyone kindly share how Japa of the Holy name is going for them........ Thank you in advance!

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna...

When I wake up I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I take my bath I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna.."
When I pick up my beads say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I walk to my job I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I do my work I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I speak with people I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I go to the toilet I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."
When I find myself saying anything else I say, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna..."

Hare Krishna. There is a Hari Kirtan resounding in my mind and it is gradually replacing everything else. Let it consume me! Sometimes it remains hidden from the world within my mind. Sometimes it quietly slips to my tongue and dances. Sometimes it escapes my lips only to enter through my ears again. When it goes out may it find new minds to occupy and dwell in them all simultaneously! May it become everything within and without me!

The more I hear the more I chant and the more I chant the more I want to hear. May I always remember the Name of Hari! By absorbing myself in the Harinam, all material desires automatically evaporate! I naturally feel very meek and humble! I naturally feel great love for Krishna and all of His energies simply because they are His! How can I find fault with anyone or anything? Hare Krishna Hare Krishna...

Let the devotees be kind and merciful so that these feelings never leave me. I am always dependant on that. At any moment I could fall helplessly deep into the terrible grinding jaws of forgetfulness. Oh Krishna, please keep me safe with your mercy!

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare...

...and then BOOM!

The name is gone. (or there is only the echo of the name.) I am left in silence and there is only Krishna. My chanting increases gradually to an all consuming level and then suddenly just stops. I am left with an awareness of acintyabhedAbhedakRSNA with no perception of name or form. Is this supposed to happen?

I am lying on the shore of the Harinam ocean. Sometimes I am covered by the waves and carried off by the current. Sometimes I am washed up on the shore again. Who can say when I will be swept away again? Perhaps one day I will stand up and dive fearlessly into the oceans depths.

Surely there are others who experience such things from continual repetition of the Name?

?

How's it going for me? - sporadic at best. I need to save up enough money to retire, so that I can spend the amount of time needed. Until then, the status quo will have to do, unfortunately.

If we were to somehow create our own sub-culture wherein people could make a living only working four hours a day, then there would be time for everyone to devote to such pursuits. Society at large is evolving towards that ideal, I believe. Technology has already made so many occupations obsolete. It's just a matter of time. We'll have our armies of androids to do all of the tedious work, which will free us up to do the interesting and enjoyable tasks.

Sometimes we have to do both for awhile and then kripa will give us all what will be known as a great blessing!

Really? I see more people working more tedious jobs for less pay every year. I have been salary stagnant for the last 5 years. ( 3 jobs, not a single pay increase) I think the sad truth is exactly the opposite. People will work harder for less (relative) pay, and 'paying off your debt' will become the new American pastime.

That's good to know, and I'm glad someone made a tape of more audible chanting by him, because it is great to assist someone leaving their body and not in a state to vocally chant themselves. I always smile at the "sit properly" comment--because I'm often slouching.

Lalitadas, Everyone has different experiences in relation to the kripa of the Holy name as it purifies our consciouness and negative karmas. The important thing is to keep up in the Holy Name with love, joy, and devotion............right? (o - yes - and humility - the natural unassuming kind). keep up the good work - thousands will benifit!

I admit I've been out of touch with the tradition for years, and of course out of touch with the larger Vaisnava tradition from the beginning, so I am confused by the idea of silent japa (save by necessity when one is unable to speak). The concept I remember from my days in the temple was that the sound vibration, non-different from Krsna, is what purifies you. By clearly chanting out loud you were in the direct physical presence of Krsna and your mental focus on the sound was equally important. (As both a meditation and as a sign of respect, I always figured. Why have God come before you and then ignore Him to think about the cute brahmacari across the room?) Now that doesn't mean to me that you go around shouting japa, unless you'd like to be locked up. It does mean that you yourself would want to hear it, even if someone standing next to you couldn't quite make it out.

Are you saying there's no added benefit at all to hearing the sound vibration with your ears rather than in your mind? That both methods are equal or that silent surpasses spoken?

I don't have just one person in mind to answer this as several people have mentioned silent japa. I am assuming it's a shared tradition that differs from what I've been taught and I just want to understand it.

So fire away.

If silent is just as good as spoken, then I'm kind of sad that I didn't know that all those years in Iowa when my back patio faced the fire station and the fire fighters all looked at me like I was crazy as I held my beadbag and seemingly talked to myself.

(I had to be out there because my small children were playing.)

Hi Tapati,
You are new here - I believe. I will try to convey and explain a few things:

There is a section on this Gaudiya Discussions entitled "OTHER TRADITIONS" (one has to scroll down). In that Discussion section is a forum called "ISKON, GAUDIYA MATH, ETC." that is where Iskon/Gaudiya Math (IGM) folks can go and talk about their respective traditions. Otherwise many of the other discussion areas are devoted to Caitanya Mahaprabhu's tradition as it comes down through the Gosvamis of Vrindban. In regards to the above - there seems to be overlap of some kind, but it is questionable as to how much really - enough such that this website places it in a section called "other traditions".

The above question is a great question! Because all three methods of Japa are great - each in their own way. Some say that Sri Hari das Thakur did one lakh (64 rounds) in each of the three diferent ways. Spoken is great as others can benifit from the chanting of the Holy Names. Quietly to oneself allows, it seems, a deeper concentration plus the joy of hearing the name as well as reciting it. Japa silently in the mind (without movement of tongue or mouth) offers, some say, even deeper concentration and seems more approiate for Smaranam practice. All have their place and time and it is wonderful to experiment and dive deeply in each of the three ways for weeks and months to experience the qualitative differences they hold within oneself. I hope the question have been answered, if not kindly proceed with more questions. Love it! Hope you are not offended by what I have written. best wishes.

I am aware of that, I was trying to express why I might be ignorant of what I was asking, placing myself in terms of where my knowledge and background originated from, in much the way an academic discusses their background or relationship at the beginning of a paper if it's relevant to the reader's understanding. I was not trying to start a comparative discussion between traditions and I'm sorry if it appeared that way. I definitely am not trying to say that what I learned about it was more authentic--if you look at my pagan topic you'll see I'm not a traditionalist in the IGM sense at all! If I can learn from witches and pagans, I am certainly willing to learn from all types of Vaisnavas!




I am not sure that fully answers my question about the added benefit of being exposed to the actual, physical sound vibration versus hearing it only in your mind. Is there a specific benefit to physically being in contact with the sound vibration other than that it is joyful (certainly) and others can benefit too? It seems to me that there are lots of mentions in scriptures specifically of sound and that is different from imagined hearing in some way that might be important. If there are specific verses unique to your tradition that explain further I am certainly interested in reading them.

If one were going to chant the number of rounds their Gurudev prescribes, is it truly optional which method one uses? I'm certainly open to experimentation and yet I want to make sure that I get the full benefit of those rounds that are required. I am also genuinely wanting corrective feedback if I have misunderstood the role of sound vibration or overestimated it. I really do genuinely respect the opinions of the Vaisnavas here or I wouldn't ask.

Sorry Tapati -was just looking for clarification. There is one Sadhu/learned scholar of my tradition that writes (in Bengali) about the Holy Name or japa of the Maha-Mantra we are all familiar with. It will take some time to study this more for any conclusive answers. Thank you for your patience!

You are very welcome, and thank you for going to the trouble of doing this research.

Hi Tapati,

Finally got some info - I am sorry I will not be able to quote it - it comes from both Minendranath Babu and his blessed Guru's (Sri Kanu-priya Gosvami) writings on the holy name. I am sure Jagat will be able to elaborate. There apparrently is no other benifit to chanting out loud other than to benifit other beings (as well as oneself) which is great! Manindranath did a lakh of Holy Name every morning out loud - no one else that I have lived with did so out loud (I knew, visited and/or lived with many well-know elevated Vaishanavas of my tradition). The main thing disscused in the books was something called 'nama-abhasya'. which is when you chant the Holy Name and only the reflection of it is experienced or revealed. This happen when someone called out to their son named 'Narayan' when he was dying and got liberated from it. That is Nama-abhasya, the reflection of the holy name , and has great power. The same thing happens in the begining period of the sincere asperaints training or practcing of the Holy Name Japa. At some point, after purification of the heart/mind/soul the Holy name appears in all its glory on the tongue and this is where we get 'dances on the tongue', etc. Point is that by doing the Holy name with great attention (focus, humility, love and affection, even a dash of enthuaism) it will purify and purify until it is revealed itself to the practitioner. This also has to do with the ingress of 'suddha-sattva' into our psycho-physical field. This is where exihileration and tears, etc are experienced and one gets a real taste and sometimes energetic (not mental) maddness for the Name. It is a very sublime path. Then one continues onward to the stages of taste and untold attraction to the Name and Holy Cuple.

I hope this helps. Jai Sri Radhe! Jai Sri Radhe-Shyam!

It was Ajamila who called out to his son Narayan.

Thank you so much for getting back to me about this. I really appreciate it.

Blessed Be--

Tapati

Sorry to correct it. The word is namabhasa or nAmAbhAsa. Yes, even nAmAbhAsa, the reflection of the holy name has great power.

I just remembered my mother forgetting to utter Krishna's name at the time of an earthquake! Being panicked she was asking my aunt who was much older than her, knowing she might be able to help her, "How do you call Him? How do you call Him?" Before she reminded her, my mother started to call out loud for Goddesse Chandi (shakti) thinking her the most powerful at that very moment although she was the worshiper of Radha-Krishna!

Coming to the main topic, if nAmAbhAsa has that much of power then just think about the power of nAmAbhyAsa or practice of chanting and talk about the time of death! That was just a small earthquake!

Chanting is so important, not only to purify ourselves and also to remember Krishna at the Final Moment of our lives.

Thank you Advitiya! Yes - it has so much power it can cause liberation - since we want seva (loving intimate service) we go for full or True Nama (Non-reflected Nama).

All glories to this thread dedicated to improving our chanting of Hare Krishna.

Personally ,I've found that meditative chanting in the mind is most helpful as I can do it throught the day and not only in the morning japa session.
To chant the Hare Krishna Maha mantra as an act of prayer and worship in the obeisances position with my head to the floor prostated in front of Krishna's lotus feet and begging for the mercy of Sri Guru to be revealed at this time and throughout the day has helped me in beginning my bhajan and giving up the propensity to criticize others.

Hare Krishna!

nama cintamani krsnas caitanya vigraha.... ultimately the Name is Krishna Himself non-dual absolute.

One More Question before I go Night Night...

I recently overcame my own contempt prior to investigation and read this thread; my aversion was "what? a lakh, yeah, not for me..." and was amazed to hear the supporting commentary for mental chanting. All I knew was what my peers did, chanting aloud to the japa tape. My wife would always chant mentaly and I would heavy her out for it... suggesting till I was blue in the face that we needed to incorperate the tongue, the voice. Just for the reason that it screws with the prana or breathing alone makes sense, as well other reasons.

So I am wondering what a beggining practitionar would benifit the most from...mental chanting, and how much? verbal chanting? a mixture? and provided that rounds can be done quicker, I recal you saying three minutes, Madhava? is the typical two hours still good?

I inquired about these three kinds of chanting from my Baba the other day, presenting on one hand the statement of Hari-bhakti-vilasa on mental being the best of the three kinds of chanting, and on the other hand the statement of Haridas Thakur in Chaitanya Bhagavat (citing Narada Pancharatra if memory serves) that puts the order upside down.

Baba said that the former applies to the chanting of diksha-mantra while the latter applies to chanting the harinama-mahamantra. However, he added, hardly any sadhaka does his japa "out loud", regardless, although this is stated in the shastra. Personally I find that the "out loud" kind of chanting quickly wears you down (physically), especially if you do it any louder than softly murmuring.

I find myself doing all three depending on my mood and the situation. Whatever works for you at any given time is certainly the best for you.

Regarding the time it takes for you for one round, please don't try to squeeze your japa into any particular time-frame. There is little benefit in that. As your experience grows, your japa is likely to become naturally swifter. There are, however, no bonus points there for being quicker just for it's own sake.

brahma haridas svamir alaukika shakti;
harinama japi paila shuddha prema bhakti
prati dina tin lakho harinama kore;
manane jihvay jape ar uccaih svare

(Advaita Prakash, end of chapter 7)

"How extraordinary is the divine power of Brahma Haridas (Thakur)! He got pure prema bhakti from Harinama Japa. He would do 3 lakhs of it each day, (either) mentally, vibrating with the lips or loudly."

I've heard an interpretation of this saying he did one lakh of each. Or is that perhaps in the text itself?

That is what my Guru told me, so I accept it like that, though strictly speaken that can not be read in the literal text...........

Chanting japa is something I've always found hugely diffficult, not least because the way I was intoduced to it was rather brutal (sleep deprivation and watersprays in the face, etc.) but also because I struggle to sit quietly as I have a rajasic temperament. So I don't expect I will ever "get it" in this lifetime. I'm hoping I can get by with kirtan & bhajan!

But I do like to learn about it theoretically in order to cultivate an aspiration to chant japa, and thought some others here might like to read this essay "Caitanya Vaisnavism and the Holy Names" that was on the forum a few months back on the topic of Exploring the Ideal Sadhana.

It has interesting excerpts in English from various Goswami literatures and other material I have not read elsewhere. Nitai suggested it might one day become a book - that would be most welcome! Is there any update on that....?

Dandavats Dandavats!

Oh yes, thank you, thank you. There is more, there is more! Whatever experiece I may have had, it is surely only a meager hint. Because I desired nondifferentiation, the Name showed to me a glimpse of just that. How foolish of me to be satisfied with such a thing. It is Prema I seek, to offer to the feet of Sri Guru. Please give me all of your blessings and I am sure that one day I will be blessed with just that!

Dandavats Kamala,

I also have trouble sitting still. I'm not sure if the Name really cares! Spoken, whispered, mental or shouting; walking, sitting, standing and swaying back and forth; whatever I have to do the focus my rebelious mind on my prayer.

Please don't think that you will not get it in this lifetime.
If you are eager for it, the Name will want to give it to you.