Atonement for killing a huge tree -

Radhe Radhe!

Dear friends,

In front of our house stands a very big tree. From the point of view of feng shui and also vastu, this tree is doing damage to the aura of the house etc etc... So if we decide to put this tree away forcefully, is there any ceremony, any known rite or ritual or anything similar for doing this?

I think its just very gross to uproot and kill such an old living entity, but I guess it has to be done... What to do? Any serious ideas?

Please help us out.

Thank you,

Monika and Tarun Kishor das

I thought the point of this kind of belief was to rearrange your living space around nature? I have a hard time seeing killing a large old living creature like this because you are getting 'bad vibes' from it? Is the tree diseased/dying?

I don't want to be insulting, so maybe you can explain the reasons why this tree is 'bad'?

I don´t know of any atonement for killing another living entity but my humble suggestion is that, if you must live by feng shui and vastu ideas then leave the tree alone and find another home for yourself. Otherwise, isolate yourself from the disturbed aura of the house by increased meditation on Radha-Govinda.

The problem in following much of Feng Shui and Vastu is that you would have to build your houses from a scratch. Short of doing that, you will invariably fail in implementing many of the principles described for an all-around auspicious setup for the house.

Please describe the issue with the tree. A very big tree very close to the house, and taller than the house?

At any rate, you will need to weigh the negative impact of bereaving the life out of a tree decades old, and the negative impact it has on the environment. I would say the former, along with its after-effects to the environment and to you, is far more serious a concern than its presence.

I'm moving this under Health and Environment.

Cut down the tree till the stem is about one foot and change it into a fruit tree or other useful tree. How to change a useless tree into a useful tree:



http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/...e%20propagation

What kind of tree is it? I am not expert in feng-shui and vAstuzAstra and I am curious as to why exactly this tree is an inauspicious influence. Generally speaking, trees are auspicious, and in the ancient world various kinds of trees were considered sacred to certain deities. The oak is sacred to Zeus and Pan, and the myrtle to Aphrodite. Daphne turned into a laurel, a tree sacred to Apollo. Various kinds of nymphs are associated with trees as well.

When it comes to trees as bad omens, then the only thing that comes to my mind (although I am sure that much more can be cited) is Dumuzi's dream in the beautiful Sumerian story known as The Descent of Inanna. In this tale, Dumuzi has a dream in which, among other things, the fright of tall trees rises above him in a grove. His sister Geshtinanna, who knows oneiromancy, interprets this fright to refer to the galla, demons of the underworld, who will descend upon him. However, in the dream all of the natural environments, rushes, reeds, water, etc., rises against Dumuzi.

Sincerely,
Elpis

I believe the idea is that if there is a grand tree that is very close to the house and taller than the building itself, it represents a danger that threatens the house.

A tree directly in front of the door is also "bad" in vastu IIRC, but you'd imagine there are remedial measures for just about everything. In Feng Shui, they often hang small mirrors and things to overcome negative influences. Hang enough of them and it'll become a tourist attraction, earning you enough to build a new house! Gotta learn to make a silk purse out of a (tofu) sow's ear.

I think the Bhagavatam describes trees as the hairs on the body of the univeral form. Are you brave/cruel enough to go pluck hairs out of the Lord's body?

Looking a bit around, I found the following five verses in praise of trees in the VRkSAyurveda (translated by Nalini Sadhale).

The text has a section on which trees one should and should not plant near a house. I am too lazy to type it up now, though.

Radhe Radhe!

Thanks to all. Big thanks to Madhavaji.

Mmmh, difficult to describe.

The tree stands in frontside of the house. swallowing a LOT of light (energy). Leaving the kitchen and the ajoining living room without much light. Especially now, winter and early spring this is very tough, since not enough light is not good in many ways. Then it stands in the middle of a nice green area, but its falling leaves will never let the grass grow, so basically around the tree is mud. That is not so bad...

Then i contacted Markus Schmieke (Gadadhara das), German Vastu-pope, and he says that exactly there where the tree stands, a free field must be. He considered its standing position as VERY bad , something concerning the eastern side...

So we are weighing up the choices and its consequences. But I guess from the point of view how it influences the light inside the house and its inauspicious position towards it, we should remove it. Begging him for forgiveness...

@Anand
No need to get so tough. I am sorry if I offended you, but your advice really doesnt help. the house is bought and we have to stay. Yeah sure, just chant Hare Krishna...

To all others, thank you so much.

Tarunji

A picture might do magic in describing it.

Can't you just dig it up and move it elsewhere? Or cut off some branches, trim it down a bit?

Yes, a pic is important! In previous times people used to plant a tree next to their houses because a tree takes a lot of water out of the earth what helps a lot to keep the basement of your house dry...too wet earth causes your whole walls to become wet and even blue mould in the rooms....

Again, thanks a lot.

We decided to remove the tree because of insufficient light within the described area.
It hurts my heart, but without enough light, life-energy slows down and you eat too much.

Thanks Madhava for your kindness, but the tree is too big to trim.

So we take on the karma and chant on.

CU in Vraja in December

Tarunji

I wouldn't think, however, exactly in those terms. Of course you should keep chanting, but you shouldn't think that the karma will be nullified through your chanting, as that would be abuse of the name.

If you wish to think of an appropriate atonement, then plant new trees somewhere and ensure they grow healthy. For example, you may buy a tree to someone in Vraja and pay him monthly to take proper care of the tree, as sadly many trees planted just die away as nobody looks after them.

Personally I found the reactions of the vaishnavas present here a little astonishing, considering the many involvements in actions that harm other beings, such as our use of cow-milk and its derivates which clearly is a form of participation in the agricultural business the way it is handled here in the West. Agriculture here is clearly based on cow-slaughter and none of us could buy any milk if this was not so. In contrast to that dramatic and traumatic involvement, it seems a little exaggerated to focus on the problem of one tree whose fate Tarunji approaches with remorse and a clearly expressed unhappiness and desire for atonement.

Another perspective that comes to my mind is the sacrifice of huge forests of trees for those not highly palatable books by Pure Devotee Number One, who could have trimmed his endless chewing-gum of "purports" for the sake of those poor trees who had to die for that endeavour of self-promotion. Also we can look at our own contributions in this matter, as we use printing paper and other products of trees, or enjoy the accumulation of endless numbers of books. [ Comments on this paragraph belong to a separate thread. Thank you. - Mod. ]

What I would suggest to Tarunji is to go ahead and do the needful, but to store the wood in a nice way for drying and then use it for a purpose such as building a little shrine or a temple-room. Could you add a little hut where the tree stands now using that wood? I am sure you get my idea. Turn the tree's association with you into a win-win result, so both of you benefit.

Another suggestion: You could also use the wood for small items, such as little shelves, a bed for the Thakurs, for other vaishnavas here to use... Be creative, turn it into a celebration...

And, if you wish to let the good old tree live on as a new sibling, you could take a small branch and plant it elsewhere, having it eventually grow to a new grand old tree itself in a suitable location.

@Madhavaji + nabadip

Thanks for your very kind words and very good ideas!
both is nice, using the wood and even planting a sibling....
thanks.

Sorry, dear Madhava, I didnt mean it like that, chanting and with it burning down the tree-karma. that would be one of the famous ten offenses...
But thanks for clearing this more.

CU
Tarunji


BTW, dear Madhavaji, COOL new design here! wonderful work.

You always come up with nice answers, Madhava!

If it would be a coconut tree you could never chop it down. No ceremonies, no chanting will take care of that. Hence, no atonement. If there is a coconut tree in your property you have to build the house by letting it grow through your house up to the rooftop. Of course, there is no problem with the shade though.

Has any one seen such a house in Vrindavan? I've seen two of them where I grew up.

Tarunkishordas,

I am sorry that you found me tough on my suggestion to you. I guess I was thinking how though your decision would be on that tree and the environment.

May I humbly suggest further that you accept Madhavananda´s suggestion and do make a vow to pay someone to care for a tree in Vrindavana. I would say that this a very good atonenment for cutting an old tree in good, old Germany.

Ah, how could I forget? Another famous example is Nebuchadnezzar's dream of a mighty tree in Daniel 4, a tree which is cut down, etc. Daniel interprets the tree as referring to the king himself and its fate to his fall. And, of course, Assyria is similarly compared to a tree in Ezekiel 31.

A fellow Vaishnava has recently voiced objection to this statement of mine (even though made in jest), explaining at length how the radioactive waste produced by nuclear plants and the gases produced by burning fossile fuel are far more harmful to the environment than the cutting down of trees for the production of printed media, and that since I advocate the former through consuming electricity with my PC and considering electric storage of texts more desirable, I must be evil and intent on destroying the world.

Respectfully, I would like to point out that paper production and printing presses consume electricity just as computers do. Currently, I receive approximately a kilogram of printed advertisements and some one hundred electronic advertisements on a weekly basis. I can assure to this fellow Vaishnava that the amount of electricity used in producing those printed advertsements, namely (1) by the machines that cut down the trees, (2) by the factory that processes the pulp into paper, (3) by the computers that are used in pre-press work, (4) by the printing press that prints on the paper, and (5) by the trucks that deliver the printed matter, is certainly greater per a single printed advertisement than the consumption of the e-advertiser's PC and server per every ten e-mails sent. I do not really have the interest to produce an exhaustive breakdown of the consumption, but I believe the conclusion should be pretty obvious, considering that each of the five stages alone consume individually at least as much energy as the latter method in total.

By the way, we are in the process of switching over to "green electricity" which has been available for a while now. (More information here for those of you fluent in Finnish.)

Green electricity means alternatives to nuclear and fossile based electricity, such as:

• Wind
• Solar energy
• Tidal wave energy
• Certain kinds of hydroelectric plants
• Wood (chips, bark etc.)

The extra cost of green electricity for the average Finn living in an apartment building is roughly one euro per month, which means practically nothing in comparison to just about all other costs involved with regular life, but is well worth the change in creating a healthier environment in the long run. Please see if similar alternatives are available in your respective areas.

You mean "extra" cost, I hope.

Here in Quebec, we have almost 100% hydroelectric power. There have been some complaints from Cree Indians in the James Bay area due to the flooding, which has been a nuisance for their traditional way of life of fishing, trapping and hunting, but on the whole, it seems to have been a good thing.

Yes, that's what I meant. One would hope though that it was the total cost. That would be green for my slim wallet.

I just recently read an article about the use of hydrogen in Canada, impressive work.

Madhavan, you forgot to mention that he called you "evil." )

I said that didn't I? "I must be evil and intent on destroying the world."