The misery of separation -

Since you mentioned "separation" I would just like to add a thought...

Is it separation that is most intense, or the moment separation becomes union?

Well spoken, dear.

I personally don't have much feelings of separation from Krishna, but I feel sad when Radharani is in separation like in stories from the Krishna book.

Satyabhama I love your new pic it is so transcendental!

So I have already wanted to reunite Radha with Krishna now for a long time. I think that would be nice to do in the Spiritual World. I got those feelings just from reading the books. Things happen naturally sometimes.

Satyabhama in Krishna lila is Mother Jahnavi in Goura lila is it not?

Separation is more intense than union but there is union in seperation, the gopis saw Krishna dancing when they were together and discussing him I just heard recently.

I would like nothing better than to see what Radharani is feeling and then to be affected by that and automatically to be in the same mood. I heard the gopis don't even need to see Her, they just know Her mood.

Well, according to me, Satyabhama is Smt. Vishnupriya in Gaura leela. Also Srimati Andal (alwar) and Bhudevi. Others may disagree, but for me anyway She is *certainly* Bhudevi!

As for separation, it may be more intense and thus somehow exalted. Ok, I suppose it should be appreciated, and from an intellectual standpoint I understand completely, however...

I curse separation with my whole heart, and I damn well don't want a drop of "higher rasas" or what have you. Damn separation to hell.

...er... *ahem*

And as for "union within separation," that is even better than simply "separation" but no way you could convince me that it is better than PURE union...

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that after being separated from Krishna for a long time, the moment Radhaji sees Him, that very moment would be more powerful than the previous separation. However, after union the following separation would be more intense than the previous one, and the union which follows *that* would be more intense than the previous union. Isn't that how it goes, folks? I dunno...

Wait a minute, what is the subject of this thread again?

You've got it. No one said it was fun. And you're supposed to curse it with all your heart. I mean, what else can you do?

The problem is: This is it, baby. Ecstasy just mean "out of your mind."

And well you should. After all, Radha probably calls separation "crap" most of the time, too. Only sometimes, when the pain subsides and she has the occasion to become reflective, she realizes that something sublime was going on--all her senses were so concentrated on Krishna that it really was like Krishna was there, only like a pillow over her face, or a crushing weight on her chest.

Actually Jiva Goswami says exactly what Kishalaya and Satyabhama are saying. The gopis would NEVER choose separation voluntarily. It is Yogamaya's doing, not theirs. Telling someone to worship in separation is like telling them to go hungry instead of eating.

The trouble is : Hunger happens. And eating is better when you are hungry. So let's not say, "Worship in separation" but rather, like Mother, "Work out, so that you have a good appetite at mealtime."

Oh yes, the idea of "let us aspire for separation" is truly odd. Let us go for sudUra-pravAsa. Let that Krishna be in Braja, and we'll go to Mongolia. We can give you siddha-praNAlI with nivAsa in Iceland. Much more rasik than those Varshana-wallas!

Haven't any of you read where Radharani scrapes her face into the ground so bad was her seperation? How she lies in bed and cannot take care of herself? This is the highest ecstacy to be able to care for her when she is in such a condition.
I do not care to enjoy with Krishna when She is feeling this way. Rather I would curse Krishna! I would do whatever Radharani wants and if Krishna will not go to Radharani then I don't know what to do?!
How can Krishna cause Radharani to suffer like that? Yes I am angry at Krishna. Yes I would like to make him suffer somehow for making Radharani suffer so much. How can he do it? Is it because of circumstances?
If so then I would like to make the arrangements to help bring him back to Radharani. I cannot stand to see her in such pain. But can I say such pain is the greatest pleasure? When Radharani is talking in madness to a bumblebee is she in madness, a type of ecstacy? Yes, the answer is yes.

The gopis cursed Krishna's friend for taking Him away.
Krishna DID leave the gopis to go to Mathura.
He left them to enjoy with city girls.
I don't know if we are allowed to curse Krishna for hurting Radharani. All I know is how I feel. These are my feelings of seperation.

Oh, don't you know how Krishna cries for Her? You have to know, gopidust, He also weeps uncontrollably. He also burns. He didn't leave "to enjoy with city girls." Actually He doesn't leave Her at any time in reality, but you know he appears to go, for the sake of leela... ok duty took Him away. He has to kill Kamsa, He has to preach Gita.

As far as Radha is concerned He only loves Radha (just like as far as Satyabhama is concerned He loves only Satyabhama, and when She weeps, Her maidservants will also comfort Her). So as far as you're concerned He loves only Radha. Don't worry, Gopidust. You know he also weeps... you would be amazed to hear it. There are descriptions in scriptures, I suggest you read them... His longing is so deep and desparate like Rani's... can you have any doubt that He loves Her above all else?

And one more thing, Gopidust, when somebody like me who loves Satyabhama says that Krishna loves Radha, you should take it seriously. To tell you the truth, I like to see all Krishna's wives and lady-loves happy. But Gopidust, for you, just feel He loves Radha more than all the rest (don't say that in front of Bhaamaa, though, or She will cry like mad!). You can believe it coming from me.

I'm sorry I said I would want to curse Krishna but I was so angry at him! Aaahhh!

That's understandable, but you have to know how much He loves Her. He is wounded deeply when they are apart. He is not aloof, insensitive, emotionless... He is God, ok, but before Her He is just a little boy. His heart is soft and melting with love.

Satyabhama who cares how Krishna feels. Not me. I really don't. I am always angry at him.
I only care about how Radharani feels. Even when they are together like the last time I saw them during a festival, I only watched Radharani and she looked relaxed.
When they are together I am still mad at him because he may do something to cause seperation. And when seperation is there I am still angry at him. Am I being offensive? Is it ok to be so angry at Krishna all of the time lately because He hurts Radharani sometimes or am I a demon?
Are we allowed to worship Radharani so much more so than Krishna? I do pray to Krishna sometimes when I am in distress and in need of help and so on.
Oh Krishna.....

Some of Vishnupriya's sakhis are always angry at Goraa for having caused Her pain. Even though they get scolded by Vishnupriya Herself because of their attitude towards Gaurhari, they can't forsake their "anger" because they feel that in this manner Gaur will be kept "under control" and this will prevent Him from leaving Vishnupriya.

Jaya! Those are the answers I was looking for. Actually when I chant japa I am praying to Krishna too. I tried praying to Radharani exclusively but it was hard.
Satyabhama's current icon has Krishna under control too it seems. Who is that big blue gopi holding Krishna while he is playing his flute?

haha, that's what it looks like, doesn't it? Role reversal hehe

That is the art of Andhra Pradesh's most famous cartoonist: "Bapu." Radhaji has stolen Krishna's flute, and He won't let go of Her for a second!

he rî main to prema dîvânî, merâ dard na jâne koya
sûlî ûpara seja hamârî, kisa bidha sonâ hoya
gagana maNDala pai seja piyâ kî, kisa bidha milana hoya
ghâyala kî gati ghâyala jânai, kî jina lâî hoya
jauhar kî gati jauhar jânai, kî jina jauhar hoya
dard kî mârî bana bana Dolûm baida milâ nahin koya
mîrâ kî prabhu pîra miTaigî jaba baida sâmvaliyâ hoya

citanandana âge nâcûngî
nâci nâci piya rasika rijhâûm, premî jana ko jâcûngî
prema prîta kâ bândha ghûnghrâ, sûrat kî kachanî kâchûngî
loka loja kula kâ marjâdâ, yâ maim eka na râkhûngî
piyâ ke palangâ jâ pauRhûngî, mîrâ hari rang râcûngî

good point. just to add..

hari! hari! kobe mora hoibe sudina?
phala mula vrndavane, khabo diva avasane,
bhramibo hoiya udasina

"Hari! Hari! When will that blessed day be mine? When will I wander around in Vrndavana completely detached, eating only some fruits and roots at the end of the day?"

When one is separated from someone in the material world one feels just misery, only separation from Krsna is the pinnacle of bliss. How can someone who has never cried while saying "Krsna" know how blissful that is?

- ADB

Had to remove what I said here because it was rubbish, sorry