Evolutions in Sadhana - japa thoughts...

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Jai Radhe! This evening after I chanted japa I began reflecting on how much ones association affects the quality of their sadhana. There are some obvious examples of how a negative situation or “bad” association can affect ones sadhana but I am thinking of more subtle aspects.

For example I remember how for my first 10 years of chanting japa I was so influenced by my ISKCON surroundings where japa is really put under a microscope. So much talk of offensive and/or inattentive chanting took me to a place where chanting was almost labor some and I found myself mentally exhausted just by the thoughts of wanting to chant “good” japa.

Some years ago I went through a period were I “renounced” my initiation vows because I was going through a rather heavy personal crisis and I needed to understand, on a personal level, why I was a devotee. How much of it was due to my need to take shelter from the world I grew up in and how much was it just kept up due to circumstance. Outwardly this meant little as I had always followed a lifestyle which almost exactly paralleled the regulative principles so the only thing I really gave up was japa and visiting the Temple. For a 6 month period I didn’t study, chant or visit a temple.

One evening I just picked up my beads, when everyone was asleep, and I chanted for about an hour. I simply flopped down on a chair, next to an open window, closed my eyes and chanted. The breeze, moonlight and soft chanting felt otherworldly. I experienced something of a revival in my enthusiasm. At the same time I wanted to keep it private as I didn’t want to jinx what I was experiencing. So each night when everyone was asleep I would chant and I found myself enjoying my time with my beads. Some nights my japa brought me to reflect on my spiritual aspirations while other nights it did little else but calm my heart and mind.

There was a quiet a difference between the chanting I had done for most of the last 10 years and what I was experiencing. One was fraught with fear of offense, a worry that what I was doing wasn’t “pure”… now I was simply enjoying the experience. Of course there will always be a caution to not chant offensively but there is a difference between such an awareness and one having that as the actual goal. I was now enjoying my time with Krsna as he danced on my tongue.

Over the last 5 year period japa has been an activity that I take shelter of as opposed to just do out of duty. I chant when my heart and soul needs that comfort… it doesn’t matter if it is at 6 am or 10 pm. It is something I have begun to relish.

Specifically over the last 10 months or so I have begun to feel another transformation in my chanting. As I read many of Ananta dasa Babaji’s books as well as many different songs and bhajans I have found a more meditative focus in my chanting. I find that my mind drifts to the different lilas I am reading daily and that I am seeing a spark of aspiration for a deeper purpose. It is but a tiny minute glimpse but it is moving my heart and I am grateful for that.

I would like to hear of some of the experiences you have all seen with your sadhana. I am eager to speak about such things as I don’t have many that I can speak with this about outside of GD.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

In my Iskcon days chanting was a kind of duty, most of the time an unpleasant one. You had to chant 16 rounds in order to belong to the "inner circle". The temple devotees tried to make every visitor start chanting 16 rounds. Now I see how wrong it was, to "jump" into 16 rounds without gradual preparation. Of course I had no taste, therefore it sometimes happened that japa was so boring that I did something else simultaneously, like reading. The more inattentive chanting I did, the less taste I experienced. So after leaving Iskcon I stopped japa.

During my Buddhist practise and studies I heard some deeper explanations of the art of mantra-meditation. I learned that silent or mental chanting is a lot more effective because the mind has a unique quality: you cannot think of two things simultaneously. So if you keep the mantra in your mind, you will not be able to daydream, while during loud chanting one can nicely wander around mentally, and only the mouth is engaged in chanting.

When I took up Hare Krsna mantra again, I thought I would apply what I have learnt previously. So I chanted only a few rounds, when I felt it is getting a mechanical duty, I stopped. This helped a lot to get rid of the duty-like concept of japa. Even if I cannot sit down to chant japa, I try to chant mentally all the time when I do not have to use my mind for other purposes. Keeping the mantra in mind during every ordinary activity, like walking, eating etc. can bring very deep experiences. It is said that in an advanced stage one's prana becomes one with the mantra.

I nearly always chant mentally. And I strongly recommend sitting down, also. But I have to admit that lately I do most of my japa walking in the woods. I dovetail it with my need to get some exercise. Still chant mentally, except for the occasional stop to hurl a few names into the stratosphere.

Recently while reading Ananta Das Baba's Prema Bhakti Candrika commentary, and also Rasa Darsana to an extent, I was amazed at the radically different approach given to the mind than that with which I was familiar. In one particular section he speaks of the great power of the mind, its incredible ability to conjure up impressions and memories, and how this power can be utilized, must be utilized in bhakti. Thus raganuga bhakti seems to be a thoroughly natural method to absorb the mind in devotional thoughts. The mind is recognized for what it is and its power is used--dovetailing! (But somehow this time it seems to make a lot more sense.)

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Of course I got mental after my last post and didn't want to leave it open to too much interpretation. I thought it was probably important that I give an example of what exactly I have been meditating on during sadhana. The following verses are ones I am posting this evening in the Manjari Svarupa Nirupana thread.

5.14 Arranging meetings of the Divine Couple:

gaveSayantAv anyonyaM kadA vRndAvanAntare |
saGgamayya yuvAM lapsye hAriNaM pAritoSikam ||
StavamAlA, KArpaNya-paJjikA-stotram, 35

O RAdhe! KRSNa! When the two of you are searching in the forests of VRndAvana, unable to find one another, then I will arrange your meeting and bring you together. Thus I will earn so much affection that you will reward me with a gift of a necklace.

5.15 Giving beneficial instructions:

govinde svayam akaroH saroja-netre
premAndhA vara-vapur arpanaM sakhi |
kArpaNyaM na kuru darAvaloka-dAne
vikrIte kariNi kim aGkuze vivAdaH || PadyAvalI 197 (Anonymous)

O lotus-eyed one! Blind with love, you have already offered your entire body of unequalled beauty to Govinda. Now why don't you glance at him with a little affection? After selling the elephant, what trader quibbles over the price of the stick used to control it?

5.16 Taking them to the appointed trysting place:

aklAnta-dyutibhir vasanta-kusumair uttaMsayan kuntalAn
antaH khelati khaJjarITa-nayane kuJjeSu kaJjekSaNaH |
asmAn mandira-karmatas tava karau nAdyApi vizrAmyataH
kiM brUmo rasikAgraNIr asi ghAtI neyaM vilamba-kSamA ||
PadyAvalI 209 (RUpa GosvAmin)

O humming-bird eyed RAdhA! The lotus-eyed KRSNa is playing in the forest groves, decorating his ears with bright spring flowers in a most attractive way. You are well-versed in amorous dealings, so how is it that these hands have not yet abandoned their meaningless household duties? What shall we say to you? This is not the moment to procrastinate!

There is a saying that if anyone sees a humming bird in a lotus flower that he becomes a king. The intention of the sakhIs in describing RAdhA and KRSNa as hummingbirds and lotus flowers respectively is that if the two of them meet one another then not only will they be highly fortunate, but the sakhIs who unite them will also get the highest pleasure in seeing them come together, just as though they had become kings. Therefore, the implication is, “for our benefit, RAdhA, kindly go and meet with KRSNa.”

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

[Again I hope this doesn’t sound too forward or shallow but it is an aspect of my sadhana that has evolved. I would go so far as to say it wasn't intentional but a natural occurrence. A big question in my mind is that inner censor that wants to ensure that the way in which I approach such meditation and prayer is indeed genuine and being done “correctly”. ]

I'm not one qualified to give approval, but I would just like to congratulate you on this progress. I think its a shame that we should doubt ourselves as we progress to awakening some meditation on Radha Krishna lila. Self doubt is one of the great obstacles to overcome as people like myself explore the Raganuga path after treading and becoming fatigued with all the restrictions of the Vaidhi path. Didn't I just read somewhere Ananta Dasa Babaji saying that on the vaidhi path the rules are everything? This could include what, how, when, why to meditate.

Hmm, it seems that vaidhi works well in an institutional setting while raganuga would necessarily (because of individuality) be impossible institutionally. Just a side thought...

Anyway, I think you have the right mentality, let yourself go, naturally. Don't be too afraid to confirm it all with authority. After all, it is SPONTANEOUS devotional service right?!

Don't worry folks, I'm not advocating snorting gopi dust and making up whatever you want... Just that freedom is a good thing.

Whatever takes you there ... ride it! Naturally.

More on this in the evening. This is just to stop you from being mental.

Speaking of japa realizations... I wouldn't call this a realization, a glimpse of lila or anything like that, but an object of contemplation for me. For some reason many years ago a thought hit me very strongly and has stuck with me. I can't give it up (not that I want to). I think about the fine details of what it would be like to participate in lila, the life details like the smell of things, the intense visual beauties going on in the lila, the sensual experience of it all would be so heightened, intense and vivid! Think of all the little things that might be missed by just learning stories...

Some of my favorite thoughts like this are of aural sense perception. I imagine what kind of thunderous pounding must be going on as Krishna and the gopis dance. The contrasting chimes of the ankle bells on all of their lotus feet. Then some visual... the dust of Vraja rising and settling as they dance. Beads of sweat on all their faces. And the smells! Boy do I long for some of that sense gratification!

As for chanting, I have long felt restricted and also compromised in quality by number quotas. The only thing that keeps me from giving up any type of counting all together is that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is said to have counted on a piece of rope right? And also Namacarya Haridasa Thakur kept a quota of names. Somehow it still conflicts in my brain though, understanding the need for mental discipline yet also giving the freedom to cultivate spontaneity, without that burdensome mentality that "I have finished".

I believe most of you are familiar with the story of the sAdhaka who came to consult Siddha Baba of Govardhan in the matter of daily bhajana. Baba inquired into how the sAdhaka's bhajana had been that day, and with tear-filled eyes the sAdhaka related how he had not been able to fulfill the daily course of aSTa-kAliya meditation. In the early morning, as he had contemplated on ornamenting the feet of Svamini, the beauty of this sight had captivated his mind entirely, and he had not been unable to let go of it until now, at afternoon time. Baba then offered solace to him, commenting that today the purpose of bhajana had truly been fulfilled.

From the story, we may deduct the often-heard principle of tasmAt kenApy upayena manaH kRSNe nivezayet, to have your mind absorbed in thoughts of Krishna in whatever way. As many minds as there are in this world, that many individual methods there may be for fulfilling this fundamental purpose of all sAdhanas.

Therefore, whatever practice you find helpful, may you embrace that. If in doubt, of course we may consult others on the pros and cons of each approach. What you have described, however, is something recommendable for everyone. Read rasika-texts and absorb your mind in their contents during nAma-japa, and indeed at all timed.

At this point, one need not be concerned over systematic cultivation of the sequential memorization of lilA, though to remind oneself of it is certainly most helpful. In sequence or out of sequence, our main concern ought to be in cultivating taste for both the upAsya and the upAsana, in whichever form it may appear. It will come to take its appropriate (and likely individual) shape in due course of time.

On occasion, if the lIlA, guNa and so forth do not come forth, one may just find solace in the beloved names themselves. One need not attempt to force them to come forth.

I personally chant mentally most of the time. Occasionally I may murmur quietly. Actually, let me clarify just so that there are no misconceptions there: most of the time I am not chanting, but when I do chant, that's how I do it.

There was some discussion of Alpha, Beta and Theta states recently. One often hears the impersonalists say that mantras, yantras, deity forms, etc., are meant to be springboards into the Theta state at best, and that the real benefit of meditation comes in the Theta (or Turiya) stage.

There is some merit to this argument, because it is stated that in the liberated stage one can better serve Krishna.


The mind needs to be quietened, and the means we have been given to do that is chanting the Holy Name. But I advise making use of yogic techniques to assist us in making the most of our practice of chanting.

It is sometimes said that there are thousands of yogic postures, but if you look at early Hatha Yoga treatises in Sanskrit, they usually put the greatest emphasis on simple sitting postures. This shows that the original purpose of all the other yogic asanas was to facilitate sitting comfortably in meditation, so that one would not be distracted by discomfort when sitting in the most effective position for concentrating the mind.

There are a number of sitting postures--bhadrAsana, padmAsana, siddhAsana, svastikAsana, etc., according to the way one positions the feet. The goal of all these sitting positions is to sit up with the back straight. I find that a a pillow placed under the coccyx is indispensible, for that gives support to the spine, which when combined with the appropriate manner of crossing the legs almost snaps it into a position that is both straight and relaxed. One's cushion should be used for support, not comfort.

I don't recommend the padmasan unless you are very flexible, nor any other position that strains the legs. On the other hand, the "tailor pose" (sukhAsana, "the easy pose"), which is the most common cross-legged position used by Westerners who are not habituated to sitting on the floor, is the worst position for meditation because it is very difficult to keep the back straight for long, even with a cushion for support. Before long one finds oneself arching the back and leaning forward, which quickly becomes very tiring and almost impossible to maintain for long.

The other positions (siddhasan and svastikasan in particular) better anchor the back through locking the ankles, so these are recommended as the best even in Hatha Yoga Pradipika.


"Siddhasana, padmasana, simhasana and bhadrasana are the four main sitting postures. Always sit comfortably in siddhasana because it is the best." (1.34)

Siddhasan: "Press the heel of the left foot against the perineum, the area between the anus and the genital. Place the right foot so that the heel presses the pubis directly above the generative organ. Push the toes and edge of the right foot in between the left thigh and calf muscles. Make sure the body is comfortable and steady, spine erect. Lower the chin to the collarbone, relax the head."

This is a bit much, as too much pressure on the perineum is hard to maintain, whatever other benefits it may have. But by placing the heel right into the crotch you actually stimulate the kundalini energy, which helps enliven the spinal chord through the meditation, while spreading the knees further apart and so anchoring the entire body effectively.

Ardha-padmasana, where one rests the right foot on the left thigh, or svastikasan, where one crosses one heel over the other foot are simple postures that achieve the same end of anchoring and keeping the spine straight, so these are good also.

Pranayam is another helpful yogic technique. One does not need to engage in full-fledged complex pranayam activities like kapalabhati, anuloma-viloma, but I find that some regulated breath control combined with the Harinam can be very beneficial, especially at the beginning of the meditation session. Breathe in on Krishna half of the mantra, out on Ram. More complicated than that is distracting, but if you are into yoga, the Maha Mantra is an effective tool for counting breaths that is more spiritual than using numbers.

Chanting the Holy Name like this will spring you into another state of consciousness where the Holy Name is the undercurrent of your mental silence, and this makes lila meditation possible. One should allow the pictures of the divine realm to seep into your consciousness.

Use the Holy Name along with breath to reign in the mind when it wanders. Chanting out loud at such junctures can have a powerful "wakening" effect, but chanting aloud as a rule is only masks uncontrolled thoughts, giving the illusion of chanting vigorously while letting the mind run on.

Uncontrolled thoughts while chanting japa may not always be a bad thing, if the thoughts are somehow connected to Krishna. But don't abuse this privilege and aim higher.

The sequence given by Sri Jiva is nama, rupa, guna, lila. I think guna is actually easier than rupa, because by remembering the Divine Couple's gunas of mercy and love, we tend to feel the heart soften and this makes it easier for the mind to turn to their forms and pastimes. (Jiva is probably thinking of guna in a different way).

Another thing I do is to keep index cards or a notebook with slokas on them nearby. Once in a while, like after completing a mala, I may read a verse or refresh my mind with one that I have committed to memory. This has a tendency to direct my mind in a particularly salutary way. But this too can be overdone and one spends one time learning verses not chanting.

Last thing. The breathing, etc., and greatest direct effort at concentration should be reserved for the diksha mantra. The meditation here should definintely be directed to your siddha svarupa in the yoga pitha. So before sitting down to chant the diksha mantra, be sure to prepare your mind by repeating the dhyana mantras, etc., that come with it. (See Sadhanamrita-chandrika or Dhyana Chandra's Paddhati.)

I recommend Rupa Goswami's Brihad Dhyana which has the Yoga Pith with the eight principal sakhis in various positions around Radha and Krishna. This is the main time to meditate on the ekadasa bhava, and the service you have been given. Even if this visualization is fleeting, it is better to do this at least once or three times a day for even a fraction of a second than not at all.

Just out of curiosity, what is the technical name of the half-lotus sitting posture?

Rasaraj,

I don't think you need to fear being 'dangerous'. While I still feel wet behind the ears with all this, I don't see anything you've written above as even bordering on being bad, offensive, dangerous or whatever. Rather it just seemed to me the familiar fear that we experience in ISKCON circles of being offensive in the myriad of ways in which it is said that we can be. So many times aparadha is utilized as a argumentative device that the fear that it has potentially instilled in us can be debilitating. I look forward to when my japa takes the path of such a 'natural occurance' like what you're talking about.

I think it is inspiring what you wrote above and I would like to hear more without you being reserved about it. It seems that some experiences (organized religion) take away from the mystical element of spirituality. I actually just read some quote somewhere stating how the mystic element is what we're all looking for, but we get side tracked into some religious doctrine and loose sight of the real thing in the name of the real thing.

Thanks for your contribution though. I enjoy hearing about it.

Ys,

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Jai Radhe! I have learned to embrace danger over the last few months. My comments were more of a reaction to reading what I just wrote as opposed to any thought out fear. All in all I have found a deep comfort with where I and my sadhana are heading.

I agree with the 'fear' I mentioned being a by-product of IGM culture. The positive aspect of that is that it has forced me to be extremely reflective on each move I make and in some respects that hasn;t been a bad thing. I believe my 'fear' will be put to rest when I begin to receive more direction and instruction on my sadhana and where it is going. Until then I will just move along with a sense of advaenture and caution.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

I wanted to add that Manjari Svarupa Nirupana has been a tremendous asset for me over the last few months in regards to my sadhana. This is a book I definitely would like to see us publish in the future through SCF. I also think it would be a great text for our group discussions.

For those of you who may not have it I have posted a few of the sections on GD.com and I highly recommend taking a look. Fantastic book!

Madhava and Jagat - What do you think of having a "systematic" look at this text?

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Its hard to believe what goes on in IGM

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Speaking of such IGM is probably middle of the road as there are some other groups that are much more 'conservative'. A friend of Braja and I has quite a bit of material from Haridasa Sastri and he seems to make even IGM seem liberal in this case. Interesting dynamic.

Again I do take some positive even from that IGM experience in regards to how I approach and view my practices. Like I stated I feel the next step is to find someone that can guide me to ensure that my experiences or more specifically my approach is adventageous to reaching a deeper and more focused path for my sadhana.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

A good Vaishnav quality - as is a good Christian quality is to take the good wherever one finds it. Good luck to you R and good luck to us all!

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Over the last few months I have developed a routine which has been very adventageous to my sadhana. Basically after I get my son Caitanya to sleep I take a warm shower, put on simple clothing, open my bedroom window and shade and chant with the slight breeze and night sky.

To me there is something about chanting in the evening. Most likely it is my passionate nature. If I rise early generally my thoughts for the day rise with me. However at the end of the day I am easily able to push everything out of my mind. My house is quiet as everyone is going to bed so there is no need to worry about the days work, getting the kids dressed and off to school, etc.

I will generally chant until I feel it is time to sleep at which time I slip in some nice bhajans to drift me off to sleep.

Don't know why I am sharing this... I guess because this has been such a precious discovery for me.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Rasaraja das:
I for one want to thank you for sharing... as a father with two young daughters, finding time to do *anything* seems impossible. Mornings are likewise ruled out for me, because no matter how early I get up (and I am very much a 'morning' person), one of the kids is up with me... 4:30? No problem says my youngest...

My only personal worry is that I seem to be the exact opposite of you.. I find myself tired and unfocused at night. Maybe some stretching exercises first & then some chanting..

Thank you for the advise.

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Well that is where the shower and fres air come in! It tends to stimulate me and bring about both focus, comfort and stimulation.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Speaking of stimulating views... It's a bit before 5 PM here, and the view out the window has been like this for a while already.

[attachmentid=1044]

[ Left side view with long exposure, right side view with short exposure, resembles more the view you see when you aren't standing next to the window and you have lights on. ]

Granted, there is fresh air out there. I don't think we've seen the sun for a couple of days now, it's been covered behind a thick layer of gray clouds. A view like this really revitalizes you and gives you energy, inspiration and all the things you need in life. Fortunately we get out of here in a couple of weeks and only come back for the springtime.

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

Ouch! I always forget where I live as I am sure DC doesn;t want to sit at an open window this time of year back East!

Luckily I get some stars here and the weather is warm enough. I think the open window, for me, is good for two things. The first is fresh air and the second is that it is just quiet.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa