On practicing raganuga-bhakti - On eligibility etc.

Three questions:

1. Have you read any/some of the works of Ananta Das Babaji, based on which you would know his views?

2. Can you point me to a text by the Gosvamins where a starting point for rAgAnuga-sAdhana is defined on the scale from zraddha to prema?

3. What stage, corresponding to one of the stages from zraddha to prema, does the Bhagavata describe as Vaishnava-mukti, or liberation? (Hint: 2nd canto)

Actually, Srila Sridhar Maharaj taught something different from what you say here..

In his (Bengali) edition of Bhaktirasamrtasindhu 1.2.291 we read:

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tatra adhikari:
ragatmikaika-nistha ye vraja-vasi-janadayah
tesam bhavaptaye lubdho bhaved atradhikaravan

Those eligible for Raganuga Bhakti:
Those who have the feeling: "I want feelings of attraction for Krishna like
Ragatmikaikanistha, the feelings felt by the Vrajabasis, the eternal residents of Vraja"
- they are eligible to engage in Raganuga Bhakti.
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In Bon Maharaj's edition, it says the sort of things you suggest, but Srila Sridhar Maharaj's version says differently

Hai Hari!

First of all I want to say that I don't want to argue and prove something. My line is that drawn by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada. However I'm not learned enough to have real argument with "babajis" and all. :-)

1. I haven't received the CD with stuff from www.raganuga.com yet, so... ;-) But speaking seriously, I haven't read any of his works, but I have a friend who did. I've also looked through "Raganuga-bhakti-sara" compilation.

2. I'm not too familiar with the works of Goswamis yet. I know, however, that qualification for raganuga-bhakti is lobha. The point is what the lobha is. I mean real lobha, not just something sentimental. Today "Oh, I wanna be a gopi!", tomorrow "Let's have some sex, I'm fed up with that Indian religion!"

3. I don't know. Please tell. :-) But I think that the term liberation in Srila Prabhupada's usage, means the stages after anartha-nivritti. I think nistha means liberation. On that stage one's liberated from gross anarthas including "I'm this body" anartha.

Yeah, but the point is whether you really have that feeling. I also can say, "I want to practice raganuga!" But actually I don't want to. I even don't want to be krsna-dasa and don't want to surrender to guru. But I can say "I wanna be raganuga-bhakta" just because of my curiousity and all. I hope you understand what I'm driving at.

You might have noticed that the publication in question is not published or written by Ananta Das Babaji, it is written mainly by Rupa and Jiva Gosvamin and Visvanatha Cakravartin, tied together with some of my notes. As you point out, lobha is the qualification for raganuga-bhakti. As said:


On the topic of lobha, your doubt:

So, what is real lobha? Is it black and white, that you either have it all or you have none of it? According to Sripad Visvanatha (RVC 1.8):





Thus, the matter of lobha is by no means black and white, but a degree of lobha is there from the very beginning, as one surrenders unto the guru, and as the hear becomes more and more purified, the lobha grows stronger.

It is not that first the heart is completely purified, and only then lobha comes in. Rather, as lobha comes in, it pushes out the impurities from the heart.

Now, this lobha, once it has come, is it one way only? No, it is a two-way alley, just as all other things. One may cone down even from the level of bhAva (BRS 1.3.54), should he disregard Hari or his devotees, what to speak of early stages of greed.

The often cited half a verse reads as follows:


Sripad Visvanatha relates this stage with the level of bhAva in the seventh chapter of his Madhurya-kadambini:


However, rAgAnuga is sAdhana, and bhAva is the graduate stage. Therefore, it is an oxymoron to propose that one should be liberated before engaging in rAgAnuga-sAdhana. You need to find other terms for that, the term mukti has a rather specific application.
Also, the following definition is given (BRS 1.2.187):


If one has engaged all his deeds, thoughts and words in the service of Hari, he is rather accomplished in the arts of sAdhana, I'd say. The commentators give Maharaja Ambarisha as an example. In his Dig-darshini on Brihat-Bhagavatamrita (2.1.16), Sanatana gives him as an example of a zuddha-bhakta devoid of desires for karma, jñAna etc., one grade below premI-bhaktas such as Hanuman. Certainly one need not be on that stage to engage in sAdhana.

We all do agree that rAgAnugA-bhakti is a matter of sAdhana, right?

Hari Hari!

Yeah, "Ragaunga-bhakti-sara" is a compilation from our Acaryas writings, but three things made me think that it's Ananta Baba's line: 1) Ananta Baba is in the line of "babajis", isn't he? I mean he's outside our saraswata-sampradaya and his teachings I guess do not contradict other babajis' teachings. 2) You being a follower of "babaji-line" commented (made notes) in RBS, so one may conclude that your notes represents babajis' (and Ananta Baba's) teachings; 3) The friends I mentioned above read "Raga-vartma-candrika" both ISKCON edition and Ananta Baba's. He told that the sense is the same in both versions, but the difference is that the first one represents "from vaiddhi to raganuga" path and the second one is "raganuga from the very beginning".

And, yeah, I admit my doing wrong mentioning the names. I shouldn't have mention Ananta Baba's name since I'm not personally familiar with his books. That's my mistake, please forgive me.

OK, I've got the point on lobha. Next thing: I've heard from Srila BV Bon Maharaja (he's from Narayana Maharaja's camp), he said that's mentioned in Raga-vartma-candira" that one who wants to practice raganuga-bhakti is characterised by the following three things: 1) He follows all the instructions that are in sastras engages in 64 angas of bhakti; 2) He always lives in Vrndavan (with his mind and, if possible, with his body); 3) He always remembers Krsna's nitya-parikars and thus does his bhajan.

So the point I want to concentrate on is the first one. I think you understand what I'm driving at, so I won't write much here. But only two words: I, personally, do not follow all the instructions. And hardly anyone does.

Your point on liberation is clear, thank you. And, yeah, raganuga is sadhana, I agree with that.

It escapes me, how can anyone twist such an interpretation out of the text? What I quoted from RVC (1.8) was not an interpretation of any kind, it was a rather literal translation. If you can point me to any places in RVC where the "vaidhi to raganuga" approach is advocated, I will gladly go over the Sanskrit text with you and explain what each and every word there means.

Here BV Bon, as sweet as he is in person, seems to contradict Rupa Gosvamin, as Sri Rupa later on (BRS 1.2.265) relates how one can attain perfection through any one of the paths of bhakti (see the zrI-viSNoH zravaNe verse and related comments here). I suspect this is not intentionally done, as we study the sources for his statement.

I believe the above is drawn from the following three core verses of the section of BRS describing rAgAnugA-sAdhana:


The part of always living in Vrindavan comes from vAsaM vraje sadA, the part of always following and remembering the associates comes from smaraM janan ... tat-katha-rataz cAsau, and the part on following the limbs of vaidhi-bhakti from the last verse. However, as far as which limbs should be followed, Sri Jiva says:


Mukunda Das Gosvamin specifies that as following those aspects that are sva-svabhAva-poSaka, nourishing to one's svabhAva, or one's own (desired) mood. Visvanatha, referring to BhP 11.2.35, argues how there is no flaw in not following some bhakti-aGgas. This has been elaborately discussed in the first chapter of his Raga-vartma-candrika in the context of the division of sAdhanAGgas in accordance with their connection to the svAbhISTa-bhAva, or one's desired mood.

I do not know where this is given as the fundamental import of the idea of raganuga-bhajana. One need not become a babaji to engage in sadhana-bhakti.

These examples would weigh more if you had seen concrete examples of these two extremes. Granted, you might see that in the case of someone who becomes "fired up" about chanting because it's a new exotic thing, and then drops it soon. However, the interest in cultivating a specific Vraja-bhava does not awaken in every other heart; it awakens, out of the mercy of Sri Krishna and his raganuga-devotees, in the heart of a sensitive person with a chrystal-like heart. It does not awaken in every Tom, Dick and Harriet. TAhA zuni lubdha haya kona bhAgyavAn.

As for getting initiated by "a real Indian babaji-guru", the problem might be more acute if there were Indian babajis flying around the world, but as it stands, you have to travel to Braja and stay there for a good while if you aspire to become initiated. I'd say that makes most of the non-determined folks drop out of the picture. It might be a cool thing, but it's not that cool, that I would spend my money flying there and living in austere conditions.