diksa/guru - questions

As a proud, self-appointed yet bonafide Gaudiya intellectual, I would have to agree with the learned Swami here. I might, however, want to specify the application of guror avajJa: It is not that one cannot chant anything but nAma-aparAdha without having the shelter of a guru. However, if one hears of the necessity of taking shelter of a guru, yet neglects the issue, then that would constitute the offence of disregarding the guru, or the principle of zrI-guru-tattva.

As we've come to conclude in a number of threads earlier on, the issue of dIkSA in the context of Saraswata and outside is often seen in a rather institutionalized context, as a demarcation of where you stand with the two groups who have grown apart and often view each other as illegitimate.

Taking it down to a more sAdhana-involved level, the methods of arcana in different circles may vary a great deal, and since dIkSA is considered the beginning of arcana, and the dIkSA-mantras also vary, not accepting dIkSA from the line in which your resolve for arcana lies may turn out to be cumbersome. Of course, once one is established in a line of worship one is satisfied with, one can then go on learning from a number of zikSA-gurus and adding to one's current understanding without a need for new initiations.

Certainly our views may change, but generally the three main phases the Westerners undergo are ISKCON > Gaudiya Matha > Trad. Gaudiyas. That seems to be the last stop for most. Some may, with or without the steps above, go from a Jati Goswami to a Babaji or vice versa due to some internal quibbles of the tradition (such as dIkSA-guru having to be of a brahmin birth), though it is more likely that a Jati Goswami would reinitiate the disciple of a Babaji than vice-versa. Otherwise, it is unlikely that even if you moved around within the tradition, that you would have to or need to receive initiation again.

Aside that, the steps I've seen people take onwards from there are to among the Nimbarkis and the Ramanujaites, the former being closer to the Gaudiyas in the mood and methods of worship. They both are, however, different sampradayas, so dIkSA in the Gaudiya-tradition given for arcana specific to the tradition might not really be a relevant issue there.

In general, it is a good idea to find a lineage with which you are thoroughly comfortable before receiving initiation. Aside the personal charisma and qualifications of the prospective guru, you would need to study the tradition of thought he represents.

How does one do this? There doesn't seem to be a bhakta program for each school! I guess association with disciples... ISKCON being a centralized institution really has this down.

Thanks for your comments Madhava and Openmind.

When Gaura encouraged mass Harinaam
Was it mass aparaadha ?

Yes, I would agree. Gaudiya dIkSA mantras do not find any use in arcana (or anything else) for those following Ramanuja sampradaya. The only dIkSA mantra that I found in common with the ones I received in ISKCON was the savitri gayatri or brahma gayatri which all brahmins (dvijas) chant. Which as you know is not at all considered an essential Vaisnava mantra but simply a mantra that comes along with upanayanam.

I had read the aSTAkSara, dvadazAkSara and Sad akSara mantras (om namo narayanaya, om namo bhagavate vasudevaya, and om visnave namah) while in ISKCON but they were not given the status of dIkSA mantras as they are in some other sampradayas.

Gopal mantra (aSTadaza akSara mantra = klim krsnaya etc) forms part of the 108 syllable sudarzana mala mantra which is of some importance to Sri Vaisnavas, but in and of itself although accepted as a Krsna mantra it is not specifically given in dIkSA, unless the person happens to be an ekanta Krsna bhakta.

Interestingly enough Narasimha mantraraja or anustub mantra mentioned in HBV and apparently used by Bhaktivinode and given by him to BSST and still given in GM by some people also finds favor and use in mantra dIkSA with Narasimha bhaktas in Sri Sampradaya.

If I were to read the section in HBV about dIkSA mamtras without knowing that it was a Gaudiya sastra I would certainly think that it was from Sri sampradaya (or possibly Madhva sampradaya).

I would say not just "in general" but that this approach is essential. In this respect it would be nice if organizations like ISKCON and GM explain to their followers before dIkSA that the goal of Gaudiya sampradaya is raganuga bhakti, specifically Radha Krsna seva in manjari bhava.

I myself was not aware of this before I took dIkSA in ISKCON. I read the Gita and other books of ACBVSP and although I realized that ISKCON was a Caitanyite/Radha-Krsna centric sect I did not realize that it focused exclusively on this aspect as the ultimate form of bhakti. (Afterall at that time what other form of Vaisnavism was available in the West?) This became apparent to me only after reading Caitanya Caritamrta. I feel much more comfortable with a tradition that allows and encourages one to express ones devotion through any or all different aspects of bhakti and even to the particular form or forms of God (Visnu/Krsna) that one is most attracted to, rather than the "one rasa fits all" philosophy.

Aparadh is never more powerful than the Name.

It is a question of moving along. The Holy Name takes you under its wing, but it expects something of you. Parents are very kind in the beginning, but as the child grows older, they make increasing demands. Love requires commitment and reciprocity.

Accepting a relationship with a guru is a significant part of that. Even a formal relationship is better than none.

A very thoughtful and loving answer Jagat.

However:
The Holy Names move one on
Like the ferry of devotion.
Do not jump to a jetty
before the ferry reaches One.

Someone told another about treasure. Someone could not share it.
The other had to find it himself. However the other was given a lifelong
map to help him.

Someone else feels love. She does not know what love is but she shares it.
She has no map and so she is lost in it. Such a one is treasure.

A useless God. Suggests no sense of human trails and tribulations. Just fall in line, will you! Better to be an animal and remain ignorant. Fortunately there are some who do not hold on to such a view.

I, at least, as a parent will not make such "increasing demands" to grind my own axe. For I know how it feels. Unless you yourself undergo the pain, you never know what the other guy is speaking.

This God just knows how to receive causeless love, not how to give it.

You take the words out of my mouth Keshava ji. This would have saved me a good deal of pain.

Yes, this is definitely a superior deal, as far as I am concerned, which is why I am so very attracted to it, theologically, and most probably I will end up here.