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Has this board changed in the last month? - Better, worse or just different?

vamsidas - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:04:49 +0530

Maybe I'm alone in my opinion, but I greatly miss Advaitadas' contributions. Certainly he had a "rough edge" that needed to be smoothed, but he also contributed something rare to this board. In retrospect, I wonder whether he contributed something unique, as the board's tone and emphasis seems to have changed since he left.

Before, I thought of this as a board grounded in traditional siddhanta, exploring how that traditional siddhanta can and should manifest in our modern Western circumstance.

Now, it seems much more like "yet another ex/semi-ISKCON board" -- albeit one of far higher quality than others.

I can anticipate one retort to my objections, "But Vamsi, the best way to change the board is for you to post more topics that would shift the tone and emphasis in the direction you desire." There's some truth in that. But this board is also a community, and if I am going to make my own contributions, I feel that I need also to read and digest others' contributions. As those contributions change, this will naturally affect my enthusiasm (or lack thereof) to participate.

I am glad that new voices/readers are finding this board. But so many of their questions are the same basic "I'm shedding my ISKCON/GM misconceptions, but don't have the patience to read the archives" or else "I'm still within ISKCON, and am eager to smash/cure you awful sahajiyas."

Notice how several ISKCON/GM topics are residing outside the nominal "ISKCON/GM" forum. That seems to reflect the current interests of the majority of active board participants. If that's what the moderators want, that's their business. They have certainly created the best "refuge for ex-ISKCONers" board of which I'm aware. But it doesn't leave me with the same enthusiasm that this board once did.

What would I propose to change this? Ideally, I'd like to see Advaitadas come back and try to show a bit more tolerance and patience with other posters, just as we should try to show a bit more tolerance and patience with him. He really added something that hasn't been replaced in his absence.

Also, I wish the moderators would exercise a slightly tighter hand in their moderation, keeping the ex-ISKCON topics in the designated ISKCON forum, and ensuring that the occasional "attention whore" posters in the other forums are kept in line a little better than at present.

End of rant. Perhaps this board is just growing in a healthy direction in which I happen not to be much interested. On the other hand, perhaps this board has taken a temporary detour from what it can and should be, and there's still time to make a mid-course correction toward a better direction.

Madhava - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:27:01 +0530

I agree that the contributions of Advaitadas were indeed valuable, though sometimes a bit impolite.

In regards to ISKCON-related topics, I am surprised to read your observation about their extent. It may be that I have missed something, but I believe we have had far more intense ISKCON/GM periods here, perhaps the difference being that back then most such topics were pointedly negative in orientation.

I have now moved two topics from Misc. to the ISKCON/GM subforum. If you spot other topics which belong there, please PM one of the moderators. Also, if a thread is being derailed by such discussions, the moderators can split off the relevant posts to that subforum. I rarely, if ever, get requests to get threads moved or split because of such issues. All it takes is one PM.

In regards to exploring traditional siddhanta, I am now looking at all the topics that have been active during the past week. There are a total of 25 discussions, plus some 10 threads with static content or technical notes. Below is a list of topics that I personally found very interesting, on a scale from 1 to 5, 4 or above.

I have actually been positively surprised over the amount of philosophical topics that have recently surfaced. The sad thing is, hardly anyone seems interested in participating in them. The exception would be the recent DH-debates, which I personally find tiresome in the long term, although good siddhanta has also been churned in them.

I personally can dig on nitty-gritty philosophical issues without an end, but it seems that such topics are not very popular given the lack of responses. Topics don't really grow just by the act of someone's reading them, perhaps an occasional question might do wonders in keeping such discussions alive.

I understand that some members are more passive and only contribute now and then, but I wonder, how many read posts does it take to produce one post on one interesting topic? I cannot possibly keep up an indefinite monologue here.

We're still taking in suggestions on topics for new threads. You don't even need to prepare a topic, just throw in an idea at your favorite poster or whoever and ask him to start a topic. Just an idea, a shred of thought of what you think of as interesting. If even that doesn't come in, I tend to interpret that as meaning that the audience is not very interested in such topics.

And I should add that in my opinion, the problems in having people make quality posts about interesting topics have always been there, whether before, during or after Advaitadas.

Madhava - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:29:40 +0530

By the way, we have a separate section for moderation and feedback. I am moving this thread there.

Rasaraja dasa - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:44:21 +0530

Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.

I really hate to be difficult but I will be in this case

. Personally I thought Advaita das had much to share but he often let his tone and language become a censor to his own points. I wish he were back to contribute in a manner that was "straight" in siddhanta without resorting to name calling and the such.

As far as the tone of this board now... I agree that there is a bit much "ISKCON" blah blah going on. If I were into hearing about ISKCON or bitching about it I am sure I could find many more websites and message boards to serve that purpose.

I know I sound like a broken record here but it really makes me wonder why we are always so eager to approach topics for the sake of arguing than finding some semblance of joint inspiration and understanding.

Left ISKCON for a "traditional" Guru? Great... how about let us know about the positive experiences in ISKCON that led you to the positive and loving relationship you have now? After all there must have been something positive which kept you desiring Sri Radhika's service.

How about we talk about the currents readings that have inspired your heart and given you inspiration and hope?

Maybe talk about something "insignificant" yet wonderful that you experienced while doing bhajan or serving the Vaisnavas.

There must be a million wonderful aspects of our devotional lives that keep our aspirations burning so why is it so rare that we discuss those? A community isn’t just there to explore problems and/or issues but to encourage, nurture, protect, love and share.

Maybe I got all of my screaming and yelling out during my punk days but I am always searching the daily posts for these inspirations. When I don’t see them I go to the IRC Chat room and chat with Madhava or I pick up a book or mrdanga to do kirtana for my deities.

Let us be different then every other Vaisnava site out there that shares the positive but thrives on the negative. Let us be a community that shares inspiration, encouragement and katha. Let us be a community that when faced with adversity or disagreement focuses on the sincerity of each other while discussing points of issue with a gentle heart and loving spirit as opposed to just trying to win an argument.

Let's agree and diagree with the focus on enhancing and furthering one anothers spiritual lives.

It isn’t a person that is missing from this site but a purpose and spirit. Although it would be great to have Advaita das back if that spirit is missing in our exchanges then we are anything but community.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Keshava - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:40:54 +0530

I don't think there is anything wrong with having discussions on all matters positive or negative. But as Vamsi pointed out "A place for everything but everything in it's place."

Let the moderators decide where a thread should be placed. Then if people don't want to read the ISKCON/GM forum they don't have to. Same with DH. If he wants to discuss his ideas which appear hetrodox to the moderation team let there be a place for it. I would also be happy if the rules of the board were ammended to include more philosophical sensitivity. Let ISKCONphiles and GMphiles and any other distinctive groups have their own forums to discuss what is important to them. Then let the open forum be limited to the discussion of commonalities and for those who want to debate the differences let there be a seperate forum for that also.

Madhava - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:40:09 +0530

I can only make a subforum for you, here. I cannot make you dance. So please, dance out of your own sweet inspiration.

Jagat - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:10:02 +0530

Advaita left because he thought we were allowing too many voices to be heard. Many of us appealed many times for him to reconsider his decision, but his beef was with Madhava and myself. He considers us to be apostates and insufficiently militant in our defense of the "one true path."

If anyone can be accused of making Iskcon an issue, however, it is he. He would regularly use excessive rhetoric when dealing with Iskcon or the Gaudiya Math and their founders. We, the moderators, found that this was unnecessarily alienating of precisely those sensitive devotees who have gone through those institutions and yet seek a more mature kind of association, which will speak to the very points that those institutions ignore or avoid.

It certainly is a temptation when moderating a forum like this to censor opposing opinions. I am opposed to that in principle, even though such opinions sometimes become uncomfortable and take the board in unexpected or unwanted directions. However, we were extraordinarily patient with Advaita and never once "moderated" him. As a rule, we only do so is when someone is needlessly and specifically aggressive in tone.

All such boards go through phases where one or another contributor dominates, usually when these contributors' circumstances permit and they have time on their hands, a luxury few of us can really afford. Sometimes this can be extremely valuable--such as when Nabadip or Gaura Keshava made extensive postings.

There is really only so much control that moderators can exercise. We have to exercise a certain amount of detachment. Ultimately, it is the participants that make the board.

We have many excellent members on this forum. I doubt that any other Vaishnava board can claim the number of educated and experienced devotees who are members here. But it is up to them to make the kinds of quality contributions that will make GD a rich source of intellectual and devotional inspiration, as well as association.

I'd like to see our star members share more of what I see as the core issue: the meaningfulness of bhakti in their lives. Or just generally make a point of sharing their personal realizations or discoveries here.

Indranila - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:46:31 +0530

QUOTE

I am glad that new voices/readers are finding this board. But so many of their questions are the same basic "I'm shedding my ISKCON/GM misconceptions, but don't have the patience to read the archives"

I sincerely tried reading the archives and I found it quite tiresome most of the time to follow a discussion with all kinds of little and bigger tangents by persons I don't know, each with his specific line of reasoning and questions prompted by specific individual experience.

It is also off-putting to get remarks like "This is the n-th time this question comes up", "First go to the archives and then post anything". It is easy to get the impression that one is not welcome here.

Otherwise it has been very useful for me to shed some misconeptions here and to get in touch with others who are going the same. What may be boring for one may make a world of difference in the life of another.

Jagat - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:11:45 +0530

Dear Indranila,

First let me say that I have taken notice of your contributions and greatly appreciated them. I hope that you will continue to participate in this forum and share your insights and realizations.

Please be patient with us. Certain subjects keep coming up, and new members cannot always be expected to do a thorough search through the archives. Rather, if any old-timers feel a subject has been done to death, they should take the trouble to link the new person to the old thread.

But getting specific answers to specific questions on a forum such as this is always a hit and miss proposition.

Indranila - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:19:42 +0530

QUOTE

I'd like to see our star members share more of what I see as the core issue: the meaningfulness of bhakti in their lives. Or just generally make a point of sharing their personal realizations or discoveries here.

I would like to see that too. Maybe I did all of my shastra delving and thrashing out in my ISKCON days or maybe my mind is tuned differently at the moment because of my small kids, but I am more eager to get a feeling of the tradition, of the way it is experienced by Westerners and what it means to them.

Madhava - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:30:15 +0530

QUOTE (Jagat @ Aug 10 2004, 01:41 PM)

Please be patient with us. Certain subjects keep coming up, and new members cannot always be expected to do a thorough search through the archives. Rather, if any old-timers feel a subject has been done to death, they should take the trouble to link the new person to the old thread.

I have tried to help people out by collecting the Frequently Discussed Topics -thread. Whenever there are topics that come up frequently, I add links there. I believe I've covered most of the frequent topics there. If there is something I have missed, chances are it hasn't been thoroughly dealt with before. If I am missing something, PM me the threads and I'll add them in.

That notwithstanding, feel free to ask again. There are always new angles, to most issues anyway.

Jagat - Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:43:33 +0530

And, for the record, we would be quite pleased if Advaita came back. He has had a long association with Gaudiya Vaishnavism in its traditional forms, has extensive knowledge of Gaudiya Vaishnava scriptures, has contributed immensely to many people's devotional lives through his translations of rasika texts, and is outspoken in presenting his point of view, which can be refreshing and invigorating.

We only ask that he show a little respect for others, even when they are in his mind wrong.

Madhava and I seem to agree quite closely in our attitude toward Vaishnava orthodoxy: We both feel attracted and loyal to the traditional disciplic succession and its approach to Vaishnava practice, while recognizing that the Western context may necessitate a certain reframing of priorities and understanding. This site is meant to appeal to those who wish to explore both these sides of Vaishnavism.

Advaita feels that we kowtow to the Iskcon and GM element and are not sufficiently strident in our criticism of the aberrations and other deficiencies in the founding acharyas of these groups.

I have made where I stand on this matter very clear: I personally will not condone wanton criticism of Vaishnavas. I have no hesitation in calling the members of Iskcon and Gaudiya Math Vaishnavas, and as such I will be very careful about how I deal with them.

I have no objection to statements of difference of opinion, but not the use of careless insuting language where Vaishnavas are concerned.

satAM nindA nAmnaH paramam aparAdhaM vitanute
yataH khyAtiM gataM kim u sahate tad-vigarhAm

How will the Holy Name tolerate insults levied at those who have spread Its glories? This is the greatest offense to the Holy Name.

So this is where my discomfort level with Advaita comes in.

Advaitadas - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:57:05 +0530

QUOTE

I have no objection to statements of difference of opinion, but not the use of careless insuting language where Vaishnavas are concerned.

satAM nindA nAmnaH paramam aparAdhaM vitanute
yataH khyAtiM gataM kim u sahate tad-vigarhAm

How will the Holy Name tolerate insults levied at those who have spread Its glories? This is the greatest offense to the Holy Name.

So this is where my discomfort level with Advaita comes in.

I have quite some discomfort too -

1. To blaspheme the saints who are spreading the glories of the holy name

Jagadananda Das: "Rupa Gosvami is a pissing and shitting human being" , and:
"The tikas to this Bhagavat Verse are unfortunate." (june 2004)

3. To disrespect the Guru -

Jagadananda Das: 'It is allright to disagree with the Guru (and deliberately break the vows you have made before him)." june 2004

4. To critique the shastras:
Jagadananda Das: "The bodyguards-story of Ugrasena is exaggarated"

5. To consider the glories of the holy name exaggarated. See nr. 4
6. To consider the glories of the holy name imaginary. See nr. 4

Madhava - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:16:20 +0530

Gopidust, before making any posts in this thread, I would suggest that you go back to those old discussions without commenting on the said references seen out of their original context.

I suggest you read (1) some of the earlier posts of Advaita and (2) this thread to get an idea of the background. That said, I fear this may be a bit out of your league, with all due respect.

gopidust - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:32:11 +0530

Yes Madhava Prabhu I will stay out of this one like most of the topics in here they are beyond my understanding or wanting to get involved it's true.

Madhava - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:41:35 +0530

Advaitadas,

I hate to rehash the old issues, but those quotes you pick out of the original context have been clarified and addressed on several occasions, though without much avail it seems.

It honestly seems to me that you are more interested in painting Jagadananda black than you are in clarifying the issues you disagree on.

Jagat - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:13:36 +0530

I apologize for those statements. Obviously they look bad out of context, but I should have known better. Anyone who has read my contributions over the years will be quite aware that this is not my customary way of speaking, and certainly not where Rupa Goswami is concerned.

vamsidas - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:18:24 +0530

QUOTE (Advaitadas @ Aug 10 2004, 03:27 PM)

I have quite some discomfort too

Dear Advaitadasji,

If you consider Jagat's apology, and then go back to consider the context in which he wrote those problematic statements, I hope you can now recognize that he did not intend the very negative (and even offensive) overtones that you perceived.

I think Jagat gets himself into trouble sometimes by framing his comments narrowly for specific audiences, then discovering that other audiences may read his statements and misconstrue them. I also think that his posts often rely on idiomatic English and/or nuances that a non-native-speaker may not easily recognize. So, when in doubt about some potentially "offensive-seeming" statement, why not assume the best (and maybe ask about it privately) instead of jumping to the conclusion that someone is an offender?

After all, don't we have an obligation, as Vaishnavas, to strive to see the good in other Vaishnavas wherever we can? Instead of saying: "How awful! He is a deviator from the Truth," aren't we mostly supposed to say, "How wonderful! In a world with almost no appreciation of Mahaprabhu, here is a fellow who (even if I don't understand him all that well) professes affection for and allegiance to my Lord"?

When there are so many (even on this forum) who admit that they aren't even Gaudiya Vaishnavas, or whose nominal "Gaudiya Vaishnavism" is wholly alien to both the tradition and our experience, shouldn't we be seeking to honor and uplift the good in those whom we recognize as Gaudiya Vaishnavas? Yes, there's surely room for chastisement when appropriate, but in the context of mutual appreciation and education, not as "doctrine police."

Besides, I honestly think that if we adopt a broad enough perspective, the differences between you and Jagat (while real, and worth exploring) are not quite as great as might be imagined. For example, let's talk about Ugrasena's bodyguards.

I assume (Jagat and Advaitadas please correct me if I'm wrong) that both you and Jagat would agree with the proposition: "The Bhagavata is true. The story of Ugrasena's bodyguards is true."

The disagreements come when we ask the question: "What do you mean by 'true'"? In that case, your disagreement has more to do with details of epistemology than with Vaishnavism, per se. It is rare enough to find two people outside India who would agree with the statement "The Bhagavata is true." Why not work to deepen that bond, instead of tearing it down over your differences? Yes, Jagat has an incorrigibly "Western brain," while you have spent decades in a deep and sincere effort to remake yourself with a "Gaudiya brain." You may mostly see the differences between your perspective and Jagat's, but from my distance I see important commonalities, and I am encouraged by that.

Enough! Whatever you may think of my above ramblings (perhaps just "an average post of a male western devotee" as you have said of my comments in the past

), I am glad to see you posting. I hope that your patience with us here, and our patience with you, will allow you to feel comfortable posting more in the future.

gopidust - Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:06:29 +0530

vamsidas, who are you referring to when you mention an attention whore?

Jagat - Thu, 12 Aug 2004 02:18:25 +0530

I believe the term "attention whore" refers to those types of persons who use Internet forums in order to entangle others by using some outrageous comments. In other words, their interest is the attention they get and not any kind of meaningful exchange. Thus they are not invested in the content of what they say, but only in the reaction they get.

vamsidas - Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:54:08 +0530

QUOTE (gopidust @ Aug 11 2004, 12:36 PM)

vamsidas, who are you referring to when you mention an attention whore?

Gopidust,

It's not a question of to whom I am referring, it's a question of to what. Jagat provided a good definition; it's a commonly used slang term, and you can find a few other attempts at a definition here:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...re&defid=775114

In the context of www.gaudiyadiscussions.com, an "attention whore" might be consistently disrespectful of board guidelines, less interested in learning and listening than in using this board as a venue for his or her one-sided "freedom of expression."

A poster who persistently refuses to answer other posters' inquiries -- answering questions with questions, or with non-sequiturs -- might likely be an "attention whore."

A poster who doggedly strives to "smash the rascals" or "convert the sahajiyas" on this board -- disrespectful of the board guidelines -- might likely be an "attention whore."

A poster who is a prolific writer, but a poor listener, might likely be an "attention whore."

Each of us, in our worst moments, may flirt with this tendency. Some posters over the last few months have consistently displayed this tendency. So, again, it's not a question of who might be an "attention whore" -- it's a question of what that behavior is, and how we all ought to avoid it, remembering that the purpose of this board is Gaudiya discussions. The further our posts stray from that context, the less likely they are to be helpful and constructive and interesting to other Gaudiya Vaishnavas on this board.

jijaji - Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:10:42 +0530

QUOTE (Jagat @ Aug 11 2004, 08:48 PM)

Jagat,

An attention whore is not that at all ..

something much worse ..but this is not the place to get into that..

Talasiga - Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:58:46 +0530

QUOTE(Jagat @ Aug 11 2004, 08:48 PM)

And what do you believe is the term for someone who posts a lot of content
but gets no-one's attention?

Father Mackenzie?

Jagat - Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:57:20 +0530

Not getting attention is a risk. It is not given to everyone to be recognized or adulated. I would say, go on posting. We never know completely the effects of our actions. Maybe a butterfly's wing fluttering in Australia will causes a hurricane in Moscow.

Once in Nabadwip, I got angry after a Bhagavata path given by Madan Gopal Goswami when a brahmin refused to take prasadam because I was the one holding the plate. I did not say anything, but wrote an article which a fellow student at the Sanskrit College published in his magazine. Before it was published, I left for Chaturmasya in Vraja. When I came back four months later, all the babajis in Nabadwip were boycotting invitations to take prasad at the Govinda Bari temple. I don't know how one thing led to the other, but I was told it was a result of my article, which had apparently hit a nerve and pitted all the babajis (mostly non-brahmins) against the brahmins in town.

Ironically, I was the first to break the boycott... I had been good friends with Haridas Mahanta since being in Iskcon.

Talasiga - Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:13:50 +0530

This isn't really the stuff of Father Mackenzie, is it?

You really have to pity the Brahmin whose position is so tenuous that a plate may upset it.
Hopefully we are not like that Brahmin in matters philosophical .....

nabadip - Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:20:13 +0530

I have been without Internet access for close to three weeks, and recognize now the difficulty of catching up by reading most of, if not all of the "new" contributions, in the short time available to me at the moment. It makes me particularly aware of the problems a newcomer to this site is facing. I feel I cannot really judge the shift now because I was not here to witness the process of it.

About Advaitadas ji's absence: I do miss that strong clear line being drawn between traditional parivar Gaudiyas and the neo-Gaudiya missions in terms of how the Gaudiya tradition was and has been continuously misrepresented and how justification for highly unethical behaviour and made that the standard of "devotional service" were introduced. I personally liked Advaitadas ji's way of describing ACBS's and his line's deviations from the tradition, and I think they were helpful in the face of the unrelenting invasion of view-points and axioms from that side. Advaitadas added a strong caveat whenever the line was crossed, and I thought that appropriate, even when I did not agree with all that was implied. On the other hand I could see him getting carried away with his emotional stuff, which for me raised questions about the process of sadhana and its results promised in shastra.

What I did not like and do not miss, are those one line topic-killers that he was able to place to shut down an inquiry, with statements such as "my guru said so" and other dogmatic stoppers.

As far as unpleasant language is concerned, I do see the planetary involvement present in the ways vaishnavas present their posts. Vaishnavas like Advaitadas are strongly plutonically influenced. With Pluto/Scorpio the sacrifice of one's individuality at the altar of identification with ideology is prominent. The willingness to stand up for an external set of beliefs is strong in many of us, but it causes in strongly scorpionic people an emotional stirring with anger easily arousable. The willingness to see the world through the eyes of shastra and to sacrifice one's drive towards own deeper insights and unfoldment is seen as a necessity to become a mouthpiece of the collective (of heaven, the divine, God...), the collective showing the rules of how further development should occur, and thus sacrificing personal, subjective reality for dogma.

In as far as we might consider wholeness in personal maturity a worthy goal, unfolding a life of bhakti in simultaneous oneness and complexity of inner experience and outer projection would mean to allow more depth of realisation than just adherence to objectified veracities. I think the present board is evolving in that direction, in a trial and error manner, and it should be welcomed to continue in that way.

Jagat - Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:32:13 +0530

We did miss you, Nabadip.

Madhava - Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:15:59 +0530

QUOTE (vamsidas @ Aug 12 2004, 01:24 AM)

It's not a question of to whom I am referring, it's a question of to what. Jagat provided a good definition; it's a commonly used slang term, and you can find a few other attempts at a definition here:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...re&defid=775114

Have a look at this definition, one of the many available:

QUOTE

attention whore

Label given to any person who craves attention to such an extent that they will do anything to receive it. The type of attention (negative or positive) does not matter.

You're such a GD attention whore!

They even had a custom example for GD!

Jagat - Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:37:32 +0530

The forum seems to be in a constant state of flux. This is natural, as different people post, get deeply involved and then leave, etc. But I would like to say that Braja's return has definitely brought the light of Braja back.

Tirtha-yatra parishram kevala manoer bhram? Not when it's Braj.

nabadip - Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:30 +0530

If we take the forum as a type of sanga, like a meeting in a room, whenever a new person enters that room or leaves it for a while, a different energy or synergy is created. We are not writing a book here for everyone to read, but by contributing we are reconstructing reality every day anew. New people tend to read only the recent posts, just like someone new who is joining a conversation hears only the opinions stated here and now.

In stagnant communities there is a standard claim to newcomers: "We have been here first, you have to adjust to us." More dynamic communities adjust to the new realities as they are created. It is a challenge, as well as an adventure. That is what this site has been and continues to be for me. The nice thing is that we can be co-creators, all of us together. A wonderful way of sharing by creating... harmony out of disharmony, unity in diversity.

In this way we are recreating in a small way what Sri Gauranga has done by showing himself in different ways to different bhaktas, always maintaining the unity in the diversity of absolute reality.