How do you know you are a manjari? - Discussions on manjari-bhava

If you study the writings of our pUrvAcAryas, such as the six Gosvamins, Narottama Das Thakura and Visvanatha Cakravartin, they invariably advocate the practice of mañjarI-bhAva-sAdhana as the unique, cherished mood of the tradition.

How do we know for certain? The heart knows, having once fallen in love with a certain mood. Additionally, for most of us anyway, our gurus have confirmed this and instructed us further in the practice of the mood.

They are precisely the mañjarIs. kAmAtmikA-bhakti (mAdhurya-bhAva, devotion of amorous feelings) is divided in two: 1) sambhogecchAtmika (a desire to enjoy with Krishna, such as the aSTa-sakhIs) and 2) tat-tad-bhAvecchAtmika (a desire to partake in Her moods), which means a desire to relish the pastimes of Radha and Krishna through singleminded fixation for the service of Sri Radha. I suggest you read for example this excerpt from a commentary on Prabodhananda Sarasvati's Radha-rasa-sudhanidhi to get a taste of the mood.

For further insights, I recommend you check out the Literature-section of Raganuga.Com and in particular the Manjari-svarupa-nirupana (first chapter, introduction to mañjarI-bhAva) available for download. The transcribed lectures on Raghunatha Das Gosvamin's Vilapa-kusumanjali should prove insightful, too. And by all means, check out the audio lectures as well.

I spoke of the mañjarIs in the previous post, but in this case, in separation from Krishna, I believe the gopIs here are Radha's sakhIs, those who are of the same age as she is, unlike the mañjarIs.

I think you are the right candidate for majari sadhana, their we need only to shered tears for radha rani for her dharshana.

In this form no awe and reverence just love only, Love for radha rani and Syama sundara. As MadhavandaJI said it if you can read all these literature I am sure you will figure it out what is your inclination etc is. Unless you have some sort of manjari inclination mahaprabhu will not direct you to this web site. I feel very fortunate to be the one to see this web site. I always indebted this site and it's members.

Maha prabhu came to give this great treasure of Manjri bhava sadhana. If you have any doubt about that, then please read the book by Dr. O.B.L Kapoor's "Chitanya and Raganuga Bhakti"

It gives us great pleasure to know that you can and want to share. Here is a poem by Gopinath Basak that I really like. It has been buzzing in my head lately--

It is she
who gathers about us
our tears, our longings .....

Is't it supposed to be given by Guru?

While coming in contact to your Vaisnava Guru you're directly coming in contact with Radha Krishna, because Guru is "bhagavad-bhaktimaya vigraha sAkSAt bhagavad-avatAra, not only the full embodiment of devotion to God, but a direct incarnation of the Lord as well", as explains Sri Ananta Dasa Babaji Maharaja in his "Sri Guru Tattva VijJAna".

In "Hindu's Encounter with Modernity" Shukavakji writes:

After this comes varaNa-dazA, or the stage of accepting the eleven aspects of a spiritual persona. This is the most interesting stage. Bhaktivinoda writes: “When lobha arises upon hearing RAdhA’s and KRSNa’s lIlA, the disciple may ask at the feet of his Guru, ‘Oh reverend sir, how is it possible to attain such lIlA?’ If pleased with the disciple, the guru will then mercifully explain the principles of lIlA in relation to the sAdhaka’s internal identity saying, ‘You may enter lIlA in this way. After hearing with innocence about this sacred mood, you shall accept this within your own heart.’ This is the stage of acceptance called varaNa-dazA.”
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To this description Bhaktivinoda adds one important qualification: the spiritual persona must match the natural feelings and psychology of the sAdhaka. He writes, “At the time of acceptance, after discerning one’s own ruci or taste for devotion you should humbly declare at the guru’s feet: ‘Lord, my full delight is in whatever identification you mercifully give. By nature my hankering is for this feeling, thus I am satisfied in accepting your command.’” Bhaktivinoda explains that the siddha-deha is the soul’s most precious possession so it must correspond in every way to the sAdhaka’s personal choice. If not, the required motivation to attain such a spiritual body will be lacking. He advises, “If there is no liking for the assignment of the spiritual body then one should candidly declare one’s own liking at the feet of the guru. Upon reflection the guru will give a different persona. If there is liking for it, then one’s proper persona will become manifest.” He continues, “At that time, the disciple must take full shelter of his guru and say, ‘I accept this [ekAdaza-bhAva] which you have given me as my own, not only in this life, but also after death.’”

So, Sri Bhaktivinod Thakur don't fully agree with what you said above.

Nice. I have read them several times over over the years, too. There are some passages I would like to share with you in this regard, passages delineating the greatest aspiration of Gaudiya Vaishnavas. In chapter Chapter 31 from Teachings of Lord Caitanya, entitled "The Supreme Perfection", the following explanation is given:


These two paragraphs express the essence of both the theology and determination of mañjarI-bhAva. The following passage from his commentary on Nectar of Instruction (verse 11) explains how residence at Radha-kunda while engaged in thoughts of service in the mood of the mañjarIs is the sum and substance of being a Gaudiya Vaishnava:


The writings of our acharyas are full of such beautiful eulogies.

I am, as most of us, working as we speak. We work towards that goal. Samadhi is attained when bhAva reaches its pinnacle, so obviously we cannot jump into samadhi overnight. However, we also should not work in ignorance of the goal we seek. If we work in ignorance of our essential goal, how will our consciousness differ from that of an ordinary fruitive worker? Certainly there is some credit in it for us, but the full benediction of devotional deeds will only manifest for the one who is intent on attaining his/her desired goal and acts in full awareness of that.

Dear Gopidust,

It is not true that "nobody else encourages us to do this." What was the purpose for writing Ujjvala-nilamani, which impressed you so much? Didn't Sri Rupa Gosvamipada write it for the sake of sadhakas, to give them vast spectrum of manjari characters to follow in the wake of?

Concerning the names of gopis and manjaris as mantras, please read Sri Gaura-govindarcana Smarana Paddhati by Srila Dhyanacandra Gosvami, where he gives mantras for eight principal sakhis and eight principal manjaris of Srimati Radhika. And Sri Dhyanacandra's book is not the only one - there is paddhati by his guru, Sri Gopal Guru Gosvami with the same name (by the way - Sri Gopal Guru Gosvami underwent long systematic training in the field of Gaudiya siddhanta and practice by no other, but Gosvamis of Vrindavan) and many paddhatis and gutikas by later acaryas in Gaudiya tradition, the most famous among these is Paddhati by famous Gaudiya Saint Siddha Sri Krisnadas Babaji.

We pride ourselves as being rUpAnuga, so yes, our goal is to reach the day when we will roam about, lamenting and longing for the company of Sri Yugala Kishora and the sakhIs, especially those partial to Radha. This is the example of the Gosvamins of Vrindavan, as portarayed in the final stanza of Srinivasa Acarya's prayers.

Has someone mentioned the contoversy about whether one's eternal form (siddha deha) is already fixed (GM & ISKCON) or whether it is cultivated (rest of the Gaudiya Sampradaya)?

Probably this has been discussed before and someone like Madhava could just post a link to the discussion for the information of Ms Gopidust.

You can find links to some frequently surfacing topics here.

It seems that women may be at a disadvantage on this point as they usually want to be able choose different colored saris for different occasions. Seriously though could someone assure us that if we go with pink that this is just to identify us in nitya lila and not meant to stifle our creative instincts. Can we wear different colors for different lilas and still have the same (pink) sari as part of our siddha deha or not?

I don't think that anyone who actually makes it that far, thinks like that.

Wait and see is a very sensible attitude. Therefore you should know theoretically from sastra what the system is then if and when the "lobha" or greed to do raganuga seva takes a hold of you, you will know it. Then that is the right time to act.

I'm glad we dropped Madhva from B(M)GVS , but I am not so sure that this is true. There are definitely differences. So it behooves one to investigate the differences and come to one's own conclusions.

No one is suggesting rejecting guru, sadhus or sastra. It is possible to perform raganuga seva without doing any of these things. (The assembled gopijan can correct me if I am wrong about this)

Could you please explain what you think is the "usual way" of becoming a gopi? And how this differrs from what is presented here?

I think the point being made here to you is that the Gaudiya position is that they have identified the topmost position attainable by jivas (manjari bhava) and they therefore believe that one should try to attain that. Aim high. What is the problem if you don't become a gopi as long as you make it to some position of service in the spiritual world?

Obviously you will have many different kinds of dresses. Whatever you wear is the prasadI of Radha, and she may bless you with a new (second-hand ) sari anytime.

Exactly. I had the same fear of taking a dip in Radha Kunda before. So much guilty conscious. Whenever any disease or anything happened to me, then I used to think, "Oh, my God! I took bath in the Kund, and that is why I am suffering now." So much tension when I was in Iskcon really; now I am so peaceful. Believe me, now I go to Radha Kund and take as many baths as I can, thinking one day she will shower prema on me. In this parivar, there is no fear at all -- only love. Enjoy the bath without having any fear or guilty conscious.

We are not at all against Prabhupad. We point out the deviation in that sampradaya, that is all. We do appreciate him a lot for bringing us into Krishna consciousness. When I visited Radha Kund, I met a few western devotees in traditional parivar who keep Prabhupad's picture on their altar. So they said they do appreciate his help.

Dear Gopidust,

There is nothing more beautiful than to immerse oneself into the Sri Radhakunda on the Holy Appearance day of Radhakunda at midnight. The whole Sri Radhakunda, pilgrims, children, animals, sadhus (female, male and the ones you can't see by your eyes too...), everybody is there waiting for that glorious moment.Candles are burning all around the Radhakunda, people aresinging:Jay Sri Radhe, and other songs to glorify Sri Radhakunda.

I remember that i have seen my dear Guru Maharaja on the opposite side where i was, coming from the side of Sri Jahnava Gat. He was gave me an order days before and on that day to take bath in Sri Radhakunda. It was something to remember forever.
My dear gurubrother Yugal Kishore Das was staying that night by us in the house, and we took bath together.

Dive in, on that day, and you will taste nectar....trust me..

Will your spiritual body simply develop in some sort of Buddhist meditation endorsed by certain authorities, in which you have to neglect thinking of the spiritual body, but you just have to work hard and then samadhi later, so the body will blow up by itself, like some sort of jolly good baloon ?

Materials you have read in books like NOI are very fine, essential and very advanced, but you still didn't see or read other materials. Go around this forum and both the websites in your spare time... You will find goldmine here...

Yes, it does comes down to getting the right Guru. I felt it since first time i saw my Gurudeva.It is undescribable feeling.

I remember i had good prasadam in some places in Iskcon. Especially in Germany during the Harikesas reign, and it was sankirtana fever, so everything had to be cooked perfect.

I was also in the Govindas in London last week. They do not object us (my wife, son and myself) visiting deities or taking prasad in the restaurant, although they certainly know that we are outside of Iskcon. Funny enough, manager is Croatian devotee, which knows me very good, but doesn't like me so much because i have left Iskcon.
Good subji anyway....

You can find some video clips here. Of course it isn't the same as the real thing, but you get an idea.

When we enter Radha-kunda, we offer prayers first to offer due respect to her premamayI-waters, and after respectfully bathing with love, we again offer prayers. If you do not live in Vraja in a prayerful mood, wherever you place your feet you will offend the dhAma with your prideful steps. Of course the sAdhus of the dhAma are merciful and will instruct you with their example on the proper ways of humility. I vividly remember one person who as his daily sAdhana comes to offer obeisances falling flat on the ground to whosoever happens to pass by, whether a sAdhu, a local resident, a cow or a dog. The only thing I've ever heard him say is "You are great." I responded, "No, you are great." He responded, "No, I am dog, you are great," and danced away with a jolly smile on his face.

A good one....

Dear Gopi dust,

Reading all your posts makes me feel like you are not such a young personality, as much as you try to depict yourself to be, here in this forum. I will say that you are here with certain goal in mind.

Why are you here, and what is the outcome you want to get by joining this sanga and nice devotees from this forum, if you mind me not asking you that, in a very straightforward way?

Please, do not take offence whoever you are, man or woman. It is just the way you are communicating sometimes.

Why that comment about devotees wearing sarees?

Srila Ananta das Babaji has high regards toward AC Bhaktivedanta and his achievements.

you will never hear Babaji Mahasaya speak ill of others.

i asked him several questions about different persons who strongly speak against him.
he never said anything bad about these persons.

he is, at least for me, the epitome of humbleness.

Dandavats,
Tarunji

bona-fide.
that was my favourite word in my ISCKON/GM-time ( more than 14 years).
really, what is meant by "bona-fide"?
who sets the standard of "bona-fideness"?
very difficult.
and pretty useless.

what is "bona-fide" for one devotee may not be "bona-fide" for another one.

i am just reading, besides Babaji´s books, Gadadhara pran das´ version of "Dhamali".
although i am not inclined to follow the nagari-bhava-upasana, i still like the padas of Srila Locana Dasa Thakur. it helps me to develop attraction and admiration for Sri Gauranga. there are a LOT of beautiful descriptions of Him, written down eye-witness-like. i find it very interesting how much variety one can find in approaching one´s beloved form of God.

and trust me, my mind still has an ISKCON-dhoti in his cupboard,,,,

i also asked myself a million times "what is bona-fide" and what the heck not.
but i came to the conclusion that this is useless for me.
what do i gain by coming to the point of a certain "bona-fideness"?
not much.

just categorizing...

every jiva has his unique relationship to their Lordships.
there are lots of jivas, lots of lilas, lots of possibilities to be attached to a certain lila, including its persona.

in the book "The Life of Love" by O.B.L Kapoor one can read about disciples of Barha Baba who dressed themselves as females.

now of course there were scandals where some male people dress up as gopis and did all kinds of questionable things.

but if a sincere sadhaka, honest in his strivings, dedicated to the path of pure bhakti, decides to dress himself as a female because it helps him developing his prema-bhakti, who are we to judge?
and why to judge anyway? to judge means to put oneself higher than the rest!

so, i personally stopped viewing the world and the realm of spirituality in terms of "bona-fide", meaning "black/white".
all is very colourful!

since i am in no way "bona-fide" ( ), i rather try to follow the path which is right for me, but with an open heart and an open mind-horizon.

all the best
Tarunji

The story of Echo and Narcissus comes to mind. Narcissus refused Echo's love, i.e. rejected the mediation of another person in the development of his personal self. Punished for this by Nemesis, he became enchanted by his own reflection.

I don't think so!

But I don't have any "tradition" to substantiate my claim