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Verses, prayers and quotes of choice. If you come across something you find inspiring, please post it here. You can also start threads on a particular theme and regularly post in something related.

Surrender to His Swamini - Wisdom of "Hers"

Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 02:34:51 +0530
Talasiga's arrival on board Gaudiya Discussions reminded me of another friend with whom I have lost touch.

"Hers" (Peter Valaya) has disappeared from the forum scene. He was a deeply suffering soul, but one with a great deal of insight into bhakti. If anyone should be able to find him, it's me, but I confess I haven't looked.

He was often suicidal. His body was racked with chronic pain from a motorcycle accident. On top of that, he was an ex-career soldier who could be a real son-of-a-bitch. This was the alter-ego that came out as "Kali Yuga," and which alienated him from everyone.

The last time I spoke to him, he had decided to give up on Radha (!) and go to Jesus, mainly because he felt that Christians understood him better. It is true that his ideas of surrender often sounded Christian, but I just think that he frequented missions for food, shelter and companionship, and the Christians were nicer to him than the devotees, both in the temple and on the internet.

He was very needy emotionally, and would phone people, but always complained that no one phoned him. I always encouraged him to write, to collect his thoughts and put them in one place, but he was addicted to the responses on the Internet. Alas, he could not stand that everyone was ignoring his great insight into Radha, or worse, that they mocked him for it.

They said that he had no right to insight, because he was not initiated, because his ideas were not orthodox, etc., etc. But no one was more obsessed, even possessed, by the thought of Radha. He had absolutely no hope and suffered constantly. His only hope was Radha, and that gave him pain. His body was useless for service due to its infirmity and he often said that his only hope was that he might take birth in his next life in a family of devotees, which might make him suitable for service.

Anyway, to encourage him, I collected a lot of his better Istagosthi texts and I will edit them and post them here.

Why run to Him?
He's sure to leave
First to seduce
And then deceive

My Swamini will
Stay with you
No matter what
Her love is true

Leave Krishna to
His silly friends
Who needs a love
That always ends?

Gauranga offers
Both to all
Who you will choose
Remains your call

We serve Her mood in Him
Not to imitate or emulate
But to support Her love
For He is Hers, not ours.

Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 02:41:13 +0530
The heart alone can know
What minds can only guess

Invite Her in, beg Her to stay
Feed Her tears, share your fears

Darkest night soon turns to day
And all the doubts just fade away

She'll take the very worst in you
Then give you back the best of Her

No wonder He cannot repay
Such a love without limits

(Oct. 6, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 02:45:55 +0530
Gently, my Love
Your soft beauty
Speaks volumes,
Still unwritten.

You know not
Your endless
Glories, but
I do, I do...

(Oct. 6, 2002)

Golden mandala
Beads of wood

Salty tears
Taste sweet

When merged
With Her's

(Oct. 6, 2002)

Chip, chip, chipping away
My heart an open-pit mine

Explosions rock my soul
Chunks fly everywhere

Is anything left but
This endless agony?

(Oct 24, 2002)

It's a little inconsistent to be great poetry, but there is good, intense feeling.
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 03:01:56 +0530
Abandon ALL varieties of religion! Go directly for relationship, but not with Krsna [establisher of religious principles], but with Radharani [source of His Divine Grace]. First approach Lord Nityananda Prabhu. His unconditional mercy will wipe everything away that keeps you from Her. Then reveal your heart completely to Radha and put yourself wholly in Her hands, in every respect, not only spiritually.

Faith is highly subjective and the experiences that cause it are deeply personal. Once achieved however, it provides a far more durable foundation for belief than anything else. There are different types of faith, various belief systems, but the best is when Grace reveals Herself directly to you. Everything else then falls into place quite naturally.

To a certain extent, all here have experienced His Divine Grace of course, however not everyone is satisfied or convinced at the root of their being. Go to the Source, refusing to accept anything/anyone else but Her, then don't leave until you are completely satisfied. If doubts, fear or whatever interfere that is to be expected, just realize there is no other alternative and keep your need foremost -- like a drowning man MUST have air. Perseverence is everything!

Otherwise, it's the same old this or that, in and out, wishy-washy greyness. Better to face it once and for all, because it's not going to go away. Essentially it's between you and God alone. Nityananda and Radha hold the keys and they are PERSONS, same as you are, just infinitely more powerful and perfect, therefore capable of the unimaginable and seemingly impossible.

(Oct, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 03:07:50 +0530
...I just found the twists and turns, along with the emotional component, somewhat interesting. The whole male-female thing makes me think about Radha and Krishna! I only wish I could discuss such topics without coming across as either completely nuts or highly offensive, though I'm most probably both...

What can we do? Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu loves and accepts us, too! Lord Krishna in Bhagavad-gita is one thing, however Krishna as Lord Caitanya ablaze with the mahabhava of Radhika, is quite another. It's like comparing conventional weaponry to nuclear! Conventional thinking and conventional approaches in general have become obsolete! It will take some time, but after all He appeared only 500 years ago. We've only just begun transforming the entire planet like never before! Somehow or other everything and everyone are working together under Their Divine Will and Absolute control, whether we realize it now or not. Causeless mercy has swept all of us up and many more miracles are yet to come. See you there, prabhu!

Spiritual requires soulful surrender while process can be merely mechanical. Though constant chanting of the Holy Names, preferably within a group setting, is the recommended "process" for this present age of Kaliyuga and followed by most here on this forum, few have deeply realized what is meant by "surrender" of the self (soul).

Unfortunately, that won't stop even beginners from thinking they are in a position to advise you or anyone else. Without knowing you and your personal situation, they will inevitably jump in with so many assumptions often based on their own lack of realization. That may or may not include myself, something you'll have to decide...

First one must abandon identification with their body, including the mind and intelligence. Since the "process" is self-realization, the application of it evolves along with one's genuine realization of self, which in turn is simultaneous with God realization. A personal relationship with the Supreme Absolute, whom many of us here call Sri Sri Radha-Krishna, entails a personal approach and application. That necessarily means meeting those who are at least somewhat advanced in their realization face-to-face and accepting some personal instructions while performing submissive service.

Scriptures and perhaps other books can be helpful in the beginning, but to fully connect requires Divine Grace not philosophical logic. There are others here who will be more than happy to introduce you to their gurus and literature, so I will leave the proselytizing to them.

Like anything else, it should be understood that results vary according to how one applies oneself, both in quality and quantity. By quality, heart is implied for any "process" to be truly spiritual. Good luck! (2-10-02)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 03:14:34 +0530
Eventually, the body will cease to function at all. Meanwhile, it's functions ultimately remain in the control of it's Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer -- God. Of course most human beings believe themselves to be in control of their bodies, which they identify with as their actual selves. This seems to include many who also somehow identify themselves as devotees.

Those who have actually received His Divine Grace into their heart-of-hearts are no longer able to continue their former attachment to the body, including the mind, even though they may attempt to do so for awhile. Finally recognising the Love behind what has happened to them and simultaneously their own utter unworthiness, they are forced to genuinely surrender, and I'm not talking about the enforced discipline of some sadhana process.

His Divine Grace is a person and the relationship is deeply personal -- nor am I speaking here of guru, but of God. As in any personal loving bond, there is simultaneous loyalty, fidelity, etc. It's not something that can be forced, however when it happens neither can it be denied. Lust is transformed into compassion. Since the beloved is God, that compassion is reflected towards everyone to some degree.

I am definitely not a sanyassi and never want to be one, but the essence of Lord Caitanya has NOTHING to do with varnashram, or ANY religion for that matter. His gift is freely available to all who would recognize and accept, including the MOST fallen, perhaps especially them. Yes, you've heard it all before, unfortunately though not with the ears and heart of a child. No, there was too much else for your adult minds to eagerly embrace and your hearts, what's left of them, are spoken for already by your families, romantic interests, etc.

She is always here for the few who truly want and realize the need for Her. She does not intrude or dance about with a peacock feather on Her head. That is not HER way...still, behind the grand drama of it all, She holds the key and is at the root of ALL the power. Gaudiya Vaisnavas worship Her as one with Him, equally God. While He is everywhere and in everything/everyone, so is She. Let those who wish to see do so by His Divine Grace, which again is HER. Just thought it might help some sincere soul to remind once more WHO to look for and relate with. (Aug. 27, 2002)
Madhava - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 03:50:32 +0530
He was a truly interesting individual. No matter whether posting anonymously or with a dozen different nicks, I could always recognize his posts, since he never failed to italicize the word personally. cool.gif
betal_nut - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:57:14 +0530
Why run to Him?
He's sure to leave
First to seduce
And then deceive

My Swamini will
Stay with you
No matter what
Her love is true

Leave Krishna to
His silly friends
Who needs a love
That always ends?

Gauranga offers
Both to all
Who you will choose
Remains your call

We serve Her mood in Him
Not to imitate or emulate
But to support Her love
For He is Her's, not ours

That is beautiful!

He's an insightful writer.
betal_nut - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:58:14 +0530
Oh Golly..... that quote thing again! whistling.gif
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:08:14 +0530
You're a senior member, now, so how can we not forgive you the occasional lapse, Betal Nutji? I am glad you are enjoying Valaya's writings. I think he is simple and straightforward and goes straight to the goal of what bhakti means as sharanagati. He found me and my friends on the old Raganuga site to be a little too intellectual for him. He hated hearing Sanskrit (we didn't always get along, as for me Sanskrit is almost one and the same as Radha-Krishna, they don't exist separately) and would always admonish me to speak plainly and not to get caught up in esoteric ideas.

So with that encouragement, I will post more. I haven't really tried to put them in any order, not even temporal. Nor have I really done any editing to speak of.


Searching through so many books, trying to understand, is like "searching for love in all the wrong places." Without heart, our minds become the worst of enemies. Unless false ego is defeated, we can't help but act against our own self-interest, no matter what we read or do.

Radha and Krishna are simultaneously one and different. That means they exist together and separately at the same time. This can only be understood by direct personal perception revealed in the heart, transforming it. The pure vision comes from Srimati Radharani who is the internal potency personified, the source of His Divine Grace, through the agency of Sri Guru as Her confidential associate. Only by identifying with Her, the internal potency, in every sense, will the influence of Krishna's external energy be eclipsed and our true identities revealed. That internal potency is no less than Sri Krishna, although termed as His. He is also Hers, after all. Together they are God and are seen as separate only for the purpose of enacting pastimes and satisfying Their loving friends [devotees].

Gaudiya Vaishnavas worship Sri Radha as devotion displayed through the perfected residents of Goloka Vrindavan and saintly souls who appear here. Without such worship, the association of devotees is not fully appreciated. Recognizing that it is actually Radhika we are worshipping and that our personal relationship is with Her as both the means and the end will bring us the desired results most quickly.

Srila Prabhupada emphasized Krishna as God for a reason, but those who would become Gaudiya Vaishnava devotees must look deeper into the writings of previous acharyas and walk in their footsteps. The simplest way is to always consider oneself something less than a devotee and most fallen, while constantly worshipping Her in all others, especially aspiring devotees. This also encourages others and brings out the best in them, which inspires our devotional worship more and more. At the same time, the natural desires we all have to share deep intimacy with another should be dovetailed emotionally and otherwise [practical service] ONLY with Radha.

The Holy Names open our hearts and pave the highway to our ultimate destination, while the deities are there to personally relate with externally as well as internally. As we open and reveal ourselves to Her, She will do likewise with us, and we will find in Her everything we need and the fulfillment of every possible desire. True bhakti only begets ever more bhakti, bringing us into greater intimacy with its source. If we are to be genuinely sincere, our heartfelt prayers will cry out continuously for Her alone and we will not allow ourselves to be bought off by anything less. When Krishna sees that pure motivation for absolute love, He helps connect the devotee with Radharani.

It's up to us though to appreciate what is happening within and without by embracing Her with all our hearts and souls. Eventually material attachment simply fades away automatically, as the internal potency intervenes and sweeps us away to our real home. There, it is not Lord Krishna that rules, but His beloved Radha and all are somehow or other assisting Her in maintaining that supremacy. (Dec. 4, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:14:55 +0530
Much of the top people in our movement were professional liars and manipulators. They did this for a living, full time, expertly, efficiently. For a parent to overcome their lies and manipulations would have probably required heroic effort.

It was not only the "top people" who were "professional liars and manipulators." We were all trained to rationalize manipulative tactics and ended up cheating ourselves, children included, along with the so-called “karmis.” I first seriously tried to leave the movement when the wigs came out and cans with pictures of starving children in Bangladesh were being used to "liberate Lakshmi-devi" from the general public. I'd just returned from India and, quite frankly, it was just too damned much to swallow after that.

I was forced to go through my madness and guilt more or less completely alone, unable to escape the internal torture, without any friends or family to turn to. There was one devotee though who would sometimes sit up late with me, on the temple stairs, literally sharing my tears. His name is Drupada Das. I credit his genuine compassion and empathy, for what he admitted he could not even begin to understand, with connecting me to Srimati Radharani personally, for the first time.

Through all those painfully crazy years, I now know it was She who protected me, opening my eyes and heart to a deeper understanding. Although I've tried to share that vision of the Absolute on these forums, it seems mostly to have been in vain, an open invitation to mocking criticism, in fact. There are a few that may have benefitted by more intimate discussions in person. Truth is, His Divine Grace must reveal to each of us as we are ready to accept, otherwise not. Maybe the loneliness and tortured madness is a prerequisite for everyone, but most manage to somehow avoid the need to take shelter exclusively in Her, postponing it perhaps? I don't know. There's so much I wish it was possible for me to share, but I've got to admit it's not. After all, I'm not even a devotee, let alone any kind of "guru."

I will say this however, that the perfect guru we seek is not in any one individual body, but exists everywhere in everyone simultaneously. That vision remains dependent on His Divine Grace and the mercy of Lord Nityananda Prabhu. Absolute Truth requires absolute surrender, even if only for a moment. That means simply to recognize and admit that we are all ultimately under Her control, as is Krishna, and that we belong only to Her, as does Krishna. Devotees or demons and everything in-between, whatever roles we may find ourselves in, no matter what we belong solely/soul-ly to Her.

Accept that simple absolute as factual and seek out your personal relationship with Radha, not Krishna, then everything can become much clearer very quickly, like putting the right key in a lock. Sri Guru as transparent via-medium provides the door, but each of us must walk through it on our own. The Holy Names contain all of Krishna's potencies, just as he says, but what will we do with those potencies? Is She here for us, or are we here for Her? Shall we use Her to approach Krishna, or the other way around? These are the questions to ask and keep asking until the answers become perfectly clear. Then action becomes almost automatic and completely natural, without dichotomy. That doesn't mean it all immediately becomes blissful and rosy, but that was never our true goal anyway, was it? (Nov. 14, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:18:30 +0530
The whole idea behind humility is that you recognize the gulf that separates you from perfection. As Suryaz pointed out a while back in her discussion of pristine and process, there is a tendency to mistake the externals of devotional service for its essence. This is what I also have been calling "ego inflation by identification" (AmAr guru jagad guru).

These are all destructive of humility, without which there is no possibility of devotional life.

Those of us who stand outside the Gaudiya Math have observed a certain institutionalization of the heroic "demon-killing" mood, as opposed to the sweet mood. There are inherent dangers in every devotional mood; each of them can turn into its reflection. The dangers of the erotic mood were clearly enunciated by the Gaudiya Math, but they failed to recognize the dangers of the heroic.

This vira-rasa mood can become like a cancer, not knowing where to stop. When it turns against other Vaishnavas, it in fact turns in on itself and becomes destructive of the organism of bhakti itself. Puranjan is the most ready example, but he is just a caricature of something that is present throughout the Gaudiya Math.

It is, of course, human nature and no one is entirely free from the tendencies to kutinati, para-carca and para-ninda, but when one does not nip this tendency in the bud, indeed, when the entire edifice is constructed on an foundation of aparadh, one sees the external trappings of devotion, but the absence of a core.

You nailed it, Jagat -- concise, clear and directly to the point. Which is, of course, RADHA! Aparadha therefore negates the point by removing the essence. Those known as "essence seekers" must be free to roam, taking the nectar where and how they find it. Spraying entire fields with pesticides is most upsetting to their fragile natures. ISKCON can only blame itself for losing so much of its heart and soul.

Still Radha is unlimited in Her love and mercy, so all can change simply by recognizing Her not merely in the philosophy, but in each other. His Divine Grace is always ready to reveal everything to sincere and humble hearts that admit their need and absolute helplessness. Even Krishna, that great killer of demons, bows before Her and admits Her supremacy. She is the key for each of us, collectively and individually.

JAI SRI RADHE! (Nov. 12, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:21:47 +0530
Blind faith is never prescribed. Gurudeva certainly is worshipable even more so than God, since that's what Krishna wants. However, the highest worship is love and that means not necessarily forgiveness, but a more human kind of "empathy" in our relationship with him.

Like any vital personal relationship, constant growth and maturity ideally takes place. That would apply to all aspects of both the guru and disciple as they become one in the internal potency, transcendentally connecting with the spiritual world.

Goloka Vrindavan has been presented to us in the most personal way as Sri Guru, for that specific purpose. To only relate with him in awe and reverential worship misses the real essence of devotion. Vaidhi can only go so far, though it's practitioners often refuse to recognize their limitations, thereby remaining stuck in speculative misconceptions like a car spinning its wheels.

A whole different vision of His Divine Grace is needed, not sacrificing anything but supplementing it with intimacy so that it eventually absorbs everything into itself. When the heart cries out to the point where nothing else will do, She will reveal Herself. Those still able to apparently have their cake and eat it too by maintaining certain attachments are just looking for more cake.

That's not the way it works. Too much unrevealed transcendental knowledge without sufficient faith causes problems, but a particular type of faith is what's wanted. That, too, must be revealed by His Divine Grace. In the end, we get what we truly want, don't we? (Nov. 2, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:25:16 +0530
I will try once again to explain the answer previously requested anonymously, several times, about what Lord Chaitanya gave that was/is completely unique.

No previous avatar had appeared fully in the mood of Srimati Radharani. He freely bestows service to that mood on everyone by engaging them in His sankirtan movement, distributing the Holy Names everywhere unconditionally. That degree of magnanimity would not be possible without His appearance in the role of Sri Radha. Confusion arises when followers serve Him in an attempt to emulate Her mood and relationship with Krishna.

While the usual rasas are available, since Mahaprabhu is after all still Krishna, that is missing the essential point. Pure love of Krishna is expressed in Radha-dasi manjaris' exclusive devotion to Radhika without the least desire for any separate personal relationship with Gopinath themselves, under any circumstances. In fact, they simply REFUSE to do so, even though their Swamini may request it, and Krishna is eager to enjoy them. (See "Lord Caitanya and Raganuga Bhakti" by Dr. OBL Kapoor.)

That is a particular kind of manjari-bhava that was never before available and is respected by Lord Krishna Himself as the most pure. It is highly confidential and thus not yet fully understood by most, but it remains accessible to everyone by the merciful grace of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga. The key for those who may desire such an elevated position is to surrender in their heart-of-hearts to Radha-dasyam under Lord Caitanya birth-after-birth with NO expectation of ANY reward, material or spiritual, immediately or in the future.

That is "love for the sake of love" and obviously it is impossible for us to even attempt such a thing. Still, if that is what we truly want it will eventually be given. The idea is to worship and serve the devotion we see in great souls, never equating ourselves with them to even the slightest degree. Thus the feeling that "I am not a devotee, but everyone else is." Such a position can never be imitated, but it can be aspired to deep within sincere and humble hearts.
JAI SRI RADHE! (Oct. 10, 2002)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:33:04 +0530
Radha, Krishna and all the acharyas will never give up on us, even if it may seem like it sometimes. The personal bond has been renewed and it cannot be broken by anything or anyone.

That's why we needn't sweat the small stuff or concern ourselves too much with “technicalities,” etc. This can be a brutal path, as it requires absolute humility along with total tolerance. One day we're criticizing another, the next we end up seeing the same or worse in ourselves. It ain't easy for any of us!

What's going on down in the trenches between the common foot-soldiers is every bit as important as high level this-and-that between “advanced” devotees. In fact, I believe it is even more important to Srimati Radharani, our common Mother whom we are all actually part-and-parcel of. How the children are getting along, alone and together, is Her concern. The others are serving Her, the root, with their love and compassion, not we, the leaves and flowers. She is the Heart of Krishna and He is saturated in Her love.

These are the topics we should dwell on, alone and together, if at all possible. There is no need to concern ourselves with personal salvation; it's already assured! (2-10-2002)

Krishna made BG an “open secret” and therefore not a secret. He too opposed secrecy. His raja-vidya is for all regardless of caste, creed, colour or gender.

...and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in the ecstasy of Mahabhava Srimati Radharani has plundered the treasure house and is freely distributing the very highest to the absolute least among us, without consideration of qualification or disqualification.
Beware of “priests” who try to convince you of your need for their “protection” and guidance. They are not in control of anyone's personal relationship with the Supreme (including Sri Guru), though many believe that they are. Let your inner faith be greater than theirs' by depending solely and wholly on God's Loving Grace.

Technical processes have unlimited pitfalls, but the personal path, followed with the simple trusting heart of a child, has very few. When it comes to pure Bhakti, intellectualization just won't do. My God, even the word itself is intimidating! (1-25-01)
Jagat - Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:38:37 +0530
And finally, here's one that I wrote to his detractors when an entire thread was started just to put him down.

Dear Friends,

I am rather amazed at this kind of topic.

First of all I would like to say that Peter is not a mean-spirited person at all, but that he gets deeply affected by postings that show a total incomprehension or sympathy for his attachment to Radha.

He has never claimed to be anything other than a most-fallen soul; I have never seen him make any claims to the contrary. Nevertheless, his insight into Radha tattva is very profound and many of you would do well to stop mocking him and start listening.

The distaste for Radha katha is not a sign of a Gaudiya Vaishnava. All this aggressive resistance to hearing about Radha is quite painful. If you don't feel like discussing Radha with Peter, then you are best to keep silent. If he is fallen, then surely he will be delivered by his attachment for Radha, even if it takes lifetimes. If being fallen were an obstacle to engaging in devotion, we are none of us qualified for any part of it.

Indeed, if there is anyone we can take shelter of, it is Radharani, who is Devotion personified. Krishna does not give himself easily, but gives himself to his devotee. His supreme devotee, the origin of all devotion, is Radha. She is his mercy personified. Those who talk of devotion to Krishna without Radharani are bereft of any true feeling for Krishna.

You may talk philosophy or siddhanta or shastra for many births, but if you miss the point that Radha is the ashraya vigraha, then what was it worth? You may follow the regulative principles without ever humbling yourself to the mercy that flows through Radha, and what was gained?

If I were a betting man and had to wager which of you many pretenders to devotion would attain Radharani's lotus feet first--between all you initiated, vociferous protestors or Peter--I have no doubt about whom I would back.

Peter has weaknesses, but I do not believe him to be malicious. His major weakness on these forums is that he gets entangled in reactionary debates with others and lets them get his goat. Then things escalate. But even there, he is often right in his perception; it is simply his approach, his tactics or his language that are at fault, not his heart. As I said the other day, a little deliberate exercise of wisdom on his part, which I am sure he is capable of, would help him transcend these petty squabbles.

No one has a license to be less than gentlemanly and I am sure Radharani wants us to be exemplary, loving human beings and not fanatic bigots in her name. If she is the goddess of love, then let's be lovers, not fighters. But a Gaudiya Vaishnava who has a distaste for Radha katha, or who blasphemes the speaker of Radha katha, is a pretender, no matter how much he waves the flag of Srila Prabhupada, or how chaste he claims to be.

Radha is not chaste: she abandons her husband to be with Krishna. Let's try to understand what her example means. Our entire sampradaya is about Radha and Radha alone. Mahaprabhu is Krishna acknowledging Radha's superiority. That is the essence. Anyone who goes straight to the essence without passing through Vedanta or the Gita is still rightly situated. That is the meaning of sarva-dharman parityajya.

Jagat (Sept. 16, 2002)
Talasiga - Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:53:34 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Jun 25 2004, 09:04 PM)
Talasiga's arrival on board Gaudiya Discussions reminded me [of Peter/Valaya]

my need to dispatch this comparison is fulfilled in this other topic
Talasiga - Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:16:33 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Jun 26 2004, 04:08 AM)
The distaste for Radha katha is not a sign of a Gaudiya Vaishnava. All this aggressive resistance to hearing about Radha is quite painful. If you don't feel like discussing Radha with Peter, then you are best to keep silent. If he is fallen, then surely he will be delivered by his attachment for Radha, even if it takes lifetimes. If being fallen were an obstacle to engaging in devotion, we are none of us qualified for any part of it.

You may talk philosophy or siddhanta or shastra for many births, but if you miss the point that Radha is the ashraya vigraha, then what was it worth? You may follow the regulative principles without ever humbling yourself to the mercy that flows through Radha, and what was gained?

It is striking how injustice can evoke such poetic sensibility, Jagat.
Some of your sweetest writing arises in your defense
of Peter's right to rejoice about Radha.

Jay Chitra Sakhi
Satyabhama - Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:30:12 +0530
Go directly for relationship, but not with Krsna [establisher of religious principles], but with Radharani [source of His Divine Grace].


Faith is highly subjective and the experiences that cause it are deeply personal.