Words of Wisdom - From Harikesh

From: Harikesa Swami
Date: 23-Jan-98 11:12
To: Questions and Answers (Harikesa Swami) [1902]
Reference: Text COM:1041002 by Merudevi (dd) HKS (HKC Stockholm - S)
Subject: Womens intelligence/lust
------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Sri Visnupada,
>
> Please accept my most humble obeisances.
>
> In the lecture yesterday evening you answered to a question about
> how to explain that women are less intelligent. I have some
> questions in relation to that.
>
> Srila Prabhupada has quoted Manu-Samhita, in for example
> Bhagavad-Gita 16.7, that women should not be given freedom, and that
> they should be protected, like children. This is hard for people to
> accept nowadays. How should one explain that? How does this relate
> to women in ISKCON?

This is the vedic prescription. It is still valid in most of India. It is not valid in the West since we have no culture. ISKCON in the west also has no culture, so it is not presently valid, and indeed, the ladies sometimes do not even like it, although I am sure they would all like to be protected and freed from anxieties. But it should become the rule in ISKCON as well, especially for those girls who are born in the movement.

> I have sometimes heard from devotees that one of the reasons that
> woman are considered less intelligent is that they are prone to be
> exploited by men. Is that statement valid?

Women do indeed get exploited by men, that is why they are always being photographed in improper dress and so on, as well as used as prostitutes in different ways. This is due to being less intelligent and also nine times more lusty than men.

> What is meant by intelligence in this connection?
>
> Women is also said to be 7 times more lusty than men. How should
> this be understood?

Nine times. It means that when women get lusty and direct their lust towards a man, the man's responsive lust is nine times less than the power of the woman. Women are extremely powerful and they can melt even the strongest man within seconds. But it does not mean that women are lusty nine hours of the day and men are only lusty one hour. Men are more lusty because they are always thinking of getting captured by some lusty woman, but when the woman fires up her engines, look out.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok.. so we know one (ex-) Guru in ISKCON is a misogynist. Not a very enlightened attitude, but not that different from the 'outside' world...

I've seen many explanations for the assertion that women are 9 times lustier than men, but none of them seemed to me more than mere speculation.

Has anyone here seen any explanation from a traditional source?

That was one of his messages before his emancipation.
We can found that in psychology such extreme opinions always show, that such person is actually attracted to the subject he/she is talking/writing against with fierce, almost hate filled opposition.

When Harikes said the above he was a sannyasi. And of course like every ISKCON sannyasi who's just about to fall down, attracted to beautiful women and girls. Strongly attracted? Very strongly attracted! Till finally he even forgot where he put his Danda. Nowadays he would hardly compose such "sweet poetry". More likely he thinks right now about divorce. Bhoga-tyaga. "Lets buy a nice villa in the Provence Cote d'Azur." After one year only: "Oh, no! Lets sell the villa fast." Poor Katarina.....



BTW its sold, dont try to get it:
http://www.french-property.com/properties/.../pid/7806/tid/2

Well, this is the first time I came across the idea.

I can't find it anywhere in my database of texts.

I think it's from Chanakya, and I don't think we need to give his niti maxims the same weight as something from BRS or HBV.

It is indeed from Canakya's Niti Shastra, 1.17:

"Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

However, let us not throw the baby away with the bathing water. After all, the preceding verse says:

16. Even from poison extract nectar, wash and take back gold if it has fallen in filth, receive the highest knowledge from a lowborn person.....

In other words, why not relish the essence of the Niti Shastra?
As the Niti Shastra itself says in 15.10:

10. Shastric knowledge is unlimited, and the arts to be learned are many; the time we have is short, and our opportunities to learn are beset with obstacles. Therefore select for learning that which is most important, just as the swan drinks only the milk in water.

"Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

And what's wrong with being hungry, shy and daring?

As far as hunger goes, I believe that should be noted with the exception of those men who reside in ashrams. Their appetite is often sixteen-fold.

The ninefold is from here:



Eightfold, ninefold--what's an extra fold between friends? At least it's not laundry-fold, cos that would be sexist.

And they say, dharmAviruddho bhUteSu kAmo'smin, and ladies have it nine-fold. Yet another advantage they have.

Thanks, everyone.

Does anyone here have access to traditional commentaries to that bhAgavatam verse? I would be interested to find out if there is expanded commentary/explanation therein.

Well, that was indeed my point. Let's take what's useful--after all, there's a lot of, ahem, common sense there--but not get hung up on what doesn't seem useful to us as Vaishnavas. I simply suggested that all his words needn't carry the same weight as Sri Rupa's, or, say, Mahaprabhu's Siksastakam.

And I agree with Advaita. Heck, even lust for the right object could be good.

That explains cause the gopis are the best servants.

Kama-rupa bhakti ki JAY!

Neither Sridhar nor Vishwanath have anything to say.

ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena ya kalpita

The best service is that conceived by the damsels of Vraja.

This reminds me of an incident with my gurumaharaj, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami. In 1972, we had a program for him at a place in Honolulu called the Church of the Crossroads. He spoke on bhakti yoga for some time, then asked if anyone had questions. Some drugged-out guy started shouting the name of Paramahansa Yogananda and asked Prabhupada why Krishna didn't mention him in Bhagavad-gita. After a couple of moments of awkward silence, Prabhupada replied, "What can I say? If Krishna doesn't mention him in Bhagavad-gita, what is there for me to say?"