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Words of Wisdom - From Harikesh



betal_nut - Thu, 03 Jun 2004 01:08:44 +0530
From: Harikesa Swami
Date: 23-Jan-98 11:12
To: Questions and Answers (Harikesa Swami) [1902]
Reference: Text COM:1041002 by Merudevi (dd) HKS (HKC Stockholm - S)
Subject: Womens intelligence/lust
------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Sri Visnupada,
>
> Please accept my most humble obeisances.
>
> In the lecture yesterday evening you answered to a question about
> how to explain that women are less intelligent. I have some
> questions in relation to that.
>
> Srila Prabhupada has quoted Manu-Samhita, in for example
> Bhagavad-Gita 16.7, that women should not be given freedom, and that
> they should be protected, like children. This is hard for people to
> accept nowadays. How should one explain that? How does this relate
> to women in ISKCON?

This is the vedic prescription. It is still valid in most of India. It is not valid in the West since we have no culture. ISKCON in the west also has no culture, so it is not presently valid, and indeed, the ladies sometimes do not even like it, although I am sure they would all like to be protected and freed from anxieties. But it should become the rule in ISKCON as well, especially for those girls who are born in the movement.

> I have sometimes heard from devotees that one of the reasons that
> woman are considered less intelligent is that they are prone to be
> exploited by men. Is that statement valid?

Women do indeed get exploited by men, that is why they are always being photographed in improper dress and so on, as well as used as prostitutes in different ways. This is due to being less intelligent and also nine times more lusty than men.

> What is meant by intelligence in this connection?
>
> Women is also said to be 7 times more lusty than men. How should
> this be understood?

Nine times. It means that when women get lusty and direct their lust towards a man, the man's responsive lust is nine times less than the power of the woman. Women are extremely powerful and they can melt even the strongest man within seconds. But it does not mean that women are lusty nine hours of the day and men are only lusty one hour. Men are more lusty because they are always thinking of getting captured by some lusty woman, but when the woman fires up her engines, look out.



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bhrahmaloka - Fri, 04 Jun 2004 03:19:11 +0530
Ok.. so we know one (ex-) Guru in ISKCON is a misogynist. Not a very enlightened attitude, but not that different from the 'outside' world...
ombudsman - Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:49:03 +0530
I've seen many explanations for the assertion that women are 9 times lustier than men, but none of them seemed to me more than mere speculation.

Has anyone here seen any explanation from a traditional source?
Tamal Baran das - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 00:10:41 +0530
That was one of his messages before his emancipation.
We can found that in psychology such extreme opinions always show, that such person is actually attracted to the subject he/she is talking/writing against with fierce, almost hate filled opposition.
jatayu - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 00:22:46 +0530
When Harikes said the above he was a sannyasi. And of course like every ISKCON sannyasi who's just about to fall down, attracted to beautiful women and girls. Strongly attracted? Very strongly attracted! Till finally he even forgot where he put his Danda. Nowadays he would hardly compose such "sweet poetry". More likely he thinks right now about divorce. Bhoga-tyaga. "Lets buy a nice villa in the Provence Cote d'Azur." After one year only: "Oh, no! Lets sell the villa fast." Poor Katarina.....

user posted image

BTW its sold, dont try to get it:
http://www.french-property.com/properties/.../pid/7806/tid/2
Madhava - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 01:00:35 +0530
QUOTE(ombudsman @ Jun 4 2004, 04:19 PM)
I've seen many explanations for the assertion that women are 9 times lustier than men, but none of them seemed to me more than mere speculation.

Has anyone here seen any explanation from a traditional source?

Well, this is the first time I came across the idea.

I can't find it anywhere in my database of texts.
Babhru - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:20:12 +0530
I think it's from Chanakya, and I don't think we need to give his niti maxims the same weight as something from BRS or HBV.
Advaitadas - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:44:50 +0530
It is indeed from Canakya's Niti Shastra, 1.17:

"Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

However, let us not throw the baby away with the bathing water. After all, the preceding verse says:

16. Even from poison extract nectar, wash and take back gold if it has fallen in filth, receive the highest knowledge from a lowborn person.....

In other words, why not relish the essence of the Niti Shastra?
As the Niti Shastra itself says in 15.10:

10. Shastric knowledge is unlimited, and the arts to be learned are many; the time we have is short, and our opportunities to learn are beset with obstacles. Therefore select for learning that which is most important, just as the swan drinks only the milk in water.
Advaitadas - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:44:00 +0530
"Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

And what's wrong with being hungry, shy and daring?

biggrin.gif
Madhava - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 18:08:14 +0530
As far as hunger goes, I believe that should be noted with the exception of those men who reside in ashrams. Their appetite is often sixteen-fold.
braja - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 18:17:40 +0530
The ninefold is from here:

QUOTE
TRANSLATION

After coming back to his hermitage, he divided himself into nine personalities just to give pleasure to Devahūti, the daughter of Manu, who was eager for sex life. In that way he enjoyed with her for many, many years, which passed just like a moment.

PURPORT

Here the daughter of Svāyambhuva Manu, Devahūti, is described as suratotsuka. After traveling with her husband all over the universe, in Mount Meru and the beautiful gardens of the heavenly kingdoms, she naturally became sexually stimulated, and in order to satisfy her sexual desire, Kardama Muni expanded himself into nine forms. Instead of one, he became nine, and nine persons had sexual intercourse with Devahūti for many, many years. It is understood that the sexual appetite of a woman is nine times greater than that of a man. That is clearly indicated here. Otherwise, Kardama Muni would have had no reason to expand himself into nine.


Eightfold, ninefold--what's an extra fold between friends? At least it's not laundry-fold, cos that would be sexist.
Madhava - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 18:32:00 +0530
And they say, dharmAviruddho bhUteSu kAmo'smin, and ladies have it nine-fold. Yet another advantage they have.
ombudsman - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:34:26 +0530
Thanks, everyone.

Does anyone here have access to traditional commentaries to that bhAgavatam verse? I would be interested to find out if there is expanded commentary/explanation therein.
Babhru - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:53:27 +0530
QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Jun 5 2004, 01:14 AM)
However, let us not throw the baby away with the bathing water. After all, the preceding verse says:

16.  Even from poison extract nectar, wash and take back gold if it has fallen in filth, receive the highest knowledge from a lowborn person.....

In other words, why not relish the essence of the Niti Shastra?

Well, that was indeed my point. Let's take what's useful--after all, there's a lot of, ahem, common sense there--but not get hung up on what doesn't seem useful to us as Vaishnavas. I simply suggested that all his words needn't carry the same weight as Sri Rupa's, or, say, Mahaprabhu's Siksastakam.

And I agree with Advaita. Heck, even lust for the right object could be good. wink.gif
sadhaka108 - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:11:12 +0530
QUOTE
And I agree with Advaita. Heck, even lust for the right object could be good. 

That explains cause the gopis are the best servants.

Kama-rupa bhakti ki JAY! laugh.gif
Jagat - Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:31:43 +0530
Neither Sridhar nor Vishwanath have anything to say.
Babhru - Sun, 06 Jun 2004 02:10:12 +0530
QUOTE(sadhaka108 @ Jun 5 2004, 07:41 AM)
That explains cause the gopis are the best servants.

ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena ya kalpita

The best service is that conceived by the damsels of Vraja.
Babhru - Sun, 06 Jun 2004 02:15:28 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Jun 5 2004, 08:01 AM)
Neither Sridhar nor Vishwanath have anything to say.

This reminds me of an incident with my gurumaharaj, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami. In 1972, we had a program for him at a place in Honolulu called the Church of the Crossroads. He spoke on bhakti yoga for some time, then asked if anyone had questions. Some drugged-out guy started shouting the name of Paramahansa Yogananda and asked Prabhupada why Krishna didn't mention him in Bhagavad-gita. After a couple of moments of awkward silence, Prabhupada replied, "What can I say? If Krishna doesn't mention him in Bhagavad-gita, what is there for me to say?"