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Gaudiya Discussions Archive » PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY
Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

God And The Hierarchy Of Rasa -



Madhava - Mon, 17 May 2004 00:58:41 +0530
We are all well familiar with the five-fold gradation of primary bhakti-rasa, progressing in order of superiority from neutrality to amorous love. Though all devotees are certainly supremely fortunate, those in the more intimate relations of a friend, parent and beloved are the most fortunate of all, as their moods are the most enjoyable to Sri Krishna and as they subsequently enjoy the greatest relish of rasa themselves.

Since the essential self-defining purpose of God is to enjoy, it logically follows that he must be in a position to savor all varieties of rasa in the greatest, most optimal situation. After all, He is the akhila-rasAmRta-mUrti! Does the same gradation of savoring rasa apply with Sri Krishna, who is the generally thought of as the viSaya (object) of rasa?

If we observe the pastimes of Sri Krishna in Vraja from the vantage point of vatsalya-bhAva , we observe that He is consistently in the position of the viSaya of vatsalya-bhAva , but never its Azraya. He is only able to act as the Azraya of the relishable vatsalya-bhAva in the lesser realms outside Vraja-dhAma, such as in DvArakA, where He fondly looks after His sons headed by Pradyumna, who relish the nectar of gauravottarA-prIti (a certain subdivision of dAsya-rasa), which falls into the lower hemisphere of the nectarine universe of bhakti-rasa.

How does Sri Krishna enjoy the fullest expressions of vatsalya-bhAva ? Is there an answer to this, aside considerations of the abheda-tattva between Sri Krishna and the appearances of His antarAGga-zakti leading to His indirect enjoyment of the entire grand scala of rasa?

Indeed, it seems that Bhagavan has arranged the scenario of rasa in the sweetest of His abodes to be the most optimal for His devotees, with less concern for His own relish, as He has agreed to taste the moods of revering His parents, while they relish the great nectars of fondling Him, looking after Him and rebuking Him!
betal_nut - Mon, 17 May 2004 01:08:05 +0530
Alas!
Madhava - Thu, 20 May 2004 18:52:16 +0530
So, alas! That's all?
Malatilata - Thu, 20 May 2004 19:59:33 +0530
I think Krishna is very sweet and kind. blush.gif

He is a good host in His own village, He wants us all to have a good time there.

Sorry, that was not so philosophical.. unsure.gif
betal_nut - Thu, 20 May 2004 20:09:13 +0530
Krishna is sweet and kind?
Any references?
betal_nut - Thu, 20 May 2004 20:38:07 +0530
I would prefer references from "bonafide" sources like shastra rather than the opinions of the conditioned souls mentioned above.
Madhava - Thu, 20 May 2004 22:07:09 +0530
QUOTE(betal_nut @ May 20 2004, 02:39 PM)
Krishna is sweet and kind?
Any references?

madhuraM madhuraM vapur asya vibhor
madhuraM madhuraM vadanaM madhuram |
madhu-gandhi mRdu-smitam etad aho
madhuraM madhuraM madhuraM madhuram || kRSNa-karnAmRtam 1.92 ||

adharaM madhuraM vadanaM madhuraM
nayanaM madhuraM hasitaM madhuraM |
hRdayaM madhuraM gamanaM madhuraM
madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuraM || vallabhAcArya, madhurASTakam 1 ||
Madhava - Thu, 20 May 2004 22:13:09 +0530
Jatayu, we have a separate area for copy/paste. Please copy and paste there and only include a link to that topic, do not clutter threads with long copy/pastes. I moved the My Sweet Lord post to where it belongs.
dirty hari - Fri, 21 May 2004 07:41:16 +0530
If you see Krsna as the only vehicle of Bhagavan in Vraja for Rasa then there is no way for vatsalya bhava to be enjoyed as you mention Krsna does in Dwarka, in reality Bhagavan is not only Krsna in Vraja, mothers and fathers of others are also Bhagavan and it is there that they enjoy Vatsalya bhava as Asraya.

Of course their children will not know whom their parents (i.e God) are as that would spoil the purpose of Vraja in the first place.

If you ask for verses in support there may be some or there may not be some, not everything is revealed in sastra, but logically speaking this is How what you describe would be accomplished and therefore if such a rasa is desired then it is being manifest as such.
Madhava - Fri, 21 May 2004 23:56:34 +0530
Hari, I believe I said exactly that in the end of my original post.
QUOTE
Is there an answer to this, aside considerations of the abheda-tattva between Sri Krishna and the appearances of His antarAGga-zakti leading to His indirect enjoyment of the entire grand scala of rasa?

They are, however, not directly Bhagavan.
dirty hari - Sat, 22 May 2004 06:45:20 +0530
QUOTE
They are, however, not directly Bhagavan.


I don't know what that means.

To me there is only one Bhagavan, in a myriad of forms, so if Bhagavan desires that rasa in Vraja being the parents of all the jivas would be satisfying, in fact I doubt that any other arrangement is even likely in Vraja, if a jiva goes to Vraja in vatsalya bhava they would be Krsna's parents, not the parents of jiva's, that leaves the job up to God.
Gaurasundara - Sat, 22 May 2004 08:45:17 +0530
QUOTE(Malatilata @ May 20 2004, 02:29 PM)
I think Krishna is very sweet and kind.  blush.gif

He is a good host in His own village, He wants us all to have a good time there.

Sorry, that was not so philosophical..   unsure.gif

It has been a very long time since I have seen you post! Nice to see you again! Jaya Radhe!

Don't worry about being "philosophical," because apparenty it is simplicity that makes one a Vaishnava! biggrin.gif
Malatilata - Sun, 30 May 2004 02:11:07 +0530
Jaya Radhe!

Yes, I also noticed it's been about a year since I last time posted something. Time goes really fast. But I have been reading all the time what's going on here.

I have something in my mind that I want to post, but it will take a little time to prepare it. cool.gif