The sahajiya-tradition - Trying to understand this sahajiya business

I am interested how sahajiya is understood within non GM/ISKCON raganuga bhaktas. In a bengali village I once saw a baul "performance" where the tears seemed to be contrived; a million miles away from the kind of crying I've seen and done myself in bengali nam jagya kirtan. Although sometimes in nam jagya I thought there was an element of "fake it till you make it" which GM/ISKCON would definitely describe as as sahajiya.

So then, what do you understand by sahajiya?

There are quite a few topics discussing the concept of sahajiyA. Essentially, sahajiyA-vAda is a doctrine originally derived from outside the gauDIya-tradition, where the sAdhakas essentially perceive themselves as the microcosmic embodiments of the divine and attempt to attain unity with the divine through tantric sAdhana involving sexual intercourse among other things.

Whether those kirtanIyas were sahajiyA or not cannot be judged by the quantity of their tears. It is a matter of their beliefs. Certainly trying to artificially shed tears is not the proper standard for a gauDIya-sAdhaka, but that alone does not a sahajiyA make. Perhaps the sahajiyA also practice shedding tears, that I do not know.

In GM devotional feelings are denied, rejected. So if a bhakta shows feelings he is a sahajiya. Simple as that.

Q u e s t i o n. I would like to know how to distinguish between a sahajiya and a rasika bhakta?

A n s w e r. In the mind of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, a sahajiya is one who takes the esoteric lilas of Krsna cheaply, thinking that he can taste them while still grounded in material desire. Saraswati Thakura preached that one must pass through many stages before tasting rasa in Krsna lila. Caitanya Caritamrita states that the abode of Krsna is not constituted of material elements. It is 'sakala cinmaya'. Thus, if one is to go there and taste rasa, he or she must become cinmaya as well. Just as if one desires to live on the sun, one must become fire to do so. Similarly we must first become free from material contamination and become purely spiritual in order to actually taste rasa. One who can taste rasa is a rasika. Only such persons can fully relish Srimad Bhagavatam, 'muhur aho rasika bhuvi bhavukah'
( http://www.swami.org/sanga/archives/pages/vnn/ET03-4217.html )

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The Sahajiya doctrine holds that Radha and Krsna are the macrocosmic representation of the microcosmic union of man and woman and through sexual encounter imitates the 'myth' of Radha-Krsna (man thinking himself to be Krsna and his unwedded partner to be Radha). Through this, one can realize himself to be the spiritual essence arising out of the combination of the male and female principles. Gaudiya Vaisnavism on the other hand does not admit to this macrocosmic/microcosmic concept, nor that it culminates in an impersonal spiritual essence in which man and woman are thought to have become one through sexual union.
( http://www.swami.org/sanga/archives/pages/...three/m140.html )

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Q. What and to whom was Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura referring with the term "prakrta sahajiya"?

A. Prakrta sahajiyas are a particular sect of pseudo-Vaisnavas who envision Radha and Krsna as the archetype for man and woman. Thus they try to imitate them and conclude on the basis of a complex theology that spiritual perfection can be achieved by such imitation, which may include sexual acts. Prakrta sahajiyas believe they can imitate Radha and Krsna in the flesh. That is the reason why the name prakrta (material) has been given to them by orthodox Gaudiya Vaisnavas, whereas they refer to their sect as Sahaja Vaisnavas. Sahaja means natural or easy. The ideal of this sect is monistic.

The great Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura used the term sahajiya to refer to all those whose practice of Vaisnavism was tinged with a material conception of life. He also used this term to refer to those who took cheaply the exalted ideal of rasananda, and the conjugal love of Radha-Krsna in particular, and, although lacking eligibility, attempted to enter the raga-marga by imitating the bhajana of advanced souls.
( http://www.swami.org/sanga/archives/pages/..._five/m226.html )

Let's bring this one back up again. Does anyone have any good links describing the philosophy and history of the sahajiya-tradition? I'd like to make this one the definitive thread on sahajiyaism, since I noticed we didn't have one as of yet that I could link people up with.

Here's a summary article from Banglapedia: Sahajiya - A religious cult. I recall Jagat mentioning some things were a bit odd there, so read with a grain of salt.

Posted by Bangli: Longing in Sahajiya - Indecent Practices and Erotic Trance: Making Sense of Tantra

After reading this i can only conclude that i am a sahajiya.

No offense but I am in a room full of various sorts of devotees who all are like the characters in the wizard of oz looking for various things and we all want something the philosophy says we cannot have so how are any of us going to definitavely prove we are allowed to have it?
I have material and spiritual desires but how do I know my spiritual desires are real it seems to be based on my material desires anyway? I am a lesbian in this life and I want to be a manjari in my next so I can become one of the most beautiful women imaginable and serve other unimaginably beautiful young girls eternally.

Yes Kalkidas it is quotations like that that keep me going on with my philosophy. If only a GURU would say I am right in my understanding! It is right there in Srila Prabhupada's books! But then we hear not to join the gopibhava club.
Ok Kishalaya you are my guru. I will pray to Radharani. It makes sense to me. Thank you thank you thank you! I give up!

There is no problem here. Srila Prabhupada said we can pray to Radharani if we like if we are lesbians. At least that is what I was told. Can anyone confirm this? And gay men can devote themselves to Krishna.

His father Gour Mohan De invited lots of sadhus every day for prasadam and asked each one of them to give his son the benediction of becoming a devotee of Radharani?

The problem is we don't know who is advanced and who is not so when ISKCON devotees go to holy places we have to go in association of other ISKCON devotees to make sure we meet with other devotees at the holy places there.

Lesbians can devote their hearts to Radharani and gay men can devote their hearts to Krishna.

Seems like us straight females are the ones to lose out because we are not supposed to covet Krishna but remain satisfied in a kind of voyeuristic pleasure via osmosis. Nor do we even get to "enjoy" our husbands in Goloka Vrindavan.

Betal I don't know what to tell you I had a hard enough time just trying to figure out my own situation. Are you more attracted to Krishna or to Radharani? It seems you like Krishna better. So you don't have a problem. Just chant Hare Krishna and become his servant or whatever.

Maybe I should jump on over to your camp, Gopi.

My wife and myself have a long history with Sri Sri Radha Damodar temple.We got married there by official Vedic marriage by sons of Sri Nirmal Chandra Goswamiji and he himself was a master of ceremony.Sri Nirmal Chandra Goswami accepted us into his family, and every time we come in Vraj, we always visit the temple and his family. They are very special and very kind brijbasis and devotees.

The day before i got married i have arrived and spent 2 days living in quarters in a temple where some sadhus did live before, my wife was separated from me in different quarters of the temple. I remember goswamis family coming and practically bathing me in turmeric.The whole marriage ceremony was beautiful. I remember that i went on the street, when it was prasad time, to call other brijbasis to come and take prasad. Some really interesting faces did show up, like two Shivaite tantrik sadhus, which were looking at me like they will cast a spell, so i did serve them constantly to get their mercy. I was chanting at the samadhis almost whole night before marriage by myself, and in the morning in Bhaktivedanta Swamiji quarters. Sri Nirmal Chandra Goswamiji told me at that time, (that was years ago) that he did ask Iskcon to help him renovate all this surrounding area, which is being/is renovated now, and they didn't care and were not at all interested. Then he said: somebody will come who values this place, and he did mention Sri Krishna Caitanya Saraswata Matha.

It is nice to see that area is developing, and although i don't want to comment on Sri Narasingha Chaitanya Matha philosophically and in any other way... i know that they will also do a very good job restoring other quarters in that area.
B. G.Narasingha Maharaja has penchant for building and developing sites for Deities and Devotees.