Chaitanya Mahaprabhu By Prof Sanyal. -

Dear Bhaktas, I see that the Gaudiya Mission have republished this work in two volumes, as a good friend told me that this is a great read I called the Mission's London branch only to be told that they do not stock it. Does anyone know where I can obtain a copy?

Dasanudas,
Radharaman das.

It is a very wordy, very intellectualized kind of text, similar to the book(s) by BSS: a lot of hot air, little substance. No one writes like this nowadays anymore. If you are with Iskcon or another neo-G-org, this kind of style makes you feel intelligent. So think again, whether the books are worth your trouble to get a hold of. I'd suggest Dimock's CC instead, in case you do not have it yet. An immeasurable treasure.

Dear Nabadip,

I have been hearing about Dimock for a while, but I never had the opportunity to check any of his works and bio. Would you or someone else be kind to say something about DK/works/bio, please?

Radhe!

I hope Mina reads this. He was his professor. He would know much about him. I can look what it says in the CC. Joy Nitai

That is what I found on the net:



Edward C. Dimock Jr.
1930-2001

The South Asia Center and the Committee on South Asian Studies mourns the loss of Edward Dimock Jr, one of the most influential scholars of Indian studies in North America. Dimock, Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus in South Asian Languages & Civilizations at the University of Chicago, was an internationally known academic whose work centered on Bengali language and literature. His scholarly publications include The Thief of Love: Bengali Tales from Court to Village (Chicago, 1963), The Place of the Hidden Moon: Erotic Mysticism in the Vaisnava-Sahajiya Cult of Bengal (Chicago, 1966), and most recently, The Caitanya-Caritamrta of Krsnadasa Kaviraja (Harvard, 1999), a translation of the biography of the great Bengali saint. In addition to his numerous awards and honors, in 1992 the Indian government awarded Dimock its highest honorary degree title, Desikottama, for his work on Bengali literature.

and this:
http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/010301/obit-dimock.shtml

Edward Dimock, expert on India’s Bengali language, literature, dies
Edward Dimock, one of the most influential scholars of Indian studies in North America, died in his home in Centerville, Mass., on Thursday, Jan. 11. He was 71.

Dimock, a Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus in South Asian Languages & Civilizations, was an internationally known academic whose work centered on Bengali language and literature. His scholarly publications include The Thief of Love: Bengali Tales from Court to Village (Chicago, 1963), The Place of the Hidden Moon: Erotic Mysticism in the Vaisnava-Sahajiya Cult of Bengal (Chicago, 1966), and most recently, The Caitanya-Caritamrta of Krsnadasa Kaviraja (Harvard, 1999), a translation of the biography of the great Bengali saint.

In 1999, Algonquin Books published Mr. Dimock Explores the Mysteries of the East, a personal narrative of his thoughts and experiences with India. At the time of his death, Dimock was completing Chips from a Cape Cod Pasture, a book of reflections on his connections to the region, which his family plans to publish in the future.

Dimock, who first traveled to Calcutta with his family in 1955, is remembered by many as a father figure to the generation of American scholars who studied in India after World War II. Wendy Doniger, the Mircea Eliade Distinguished Service Professor in the Divinity School and South Asian Languages & Civilizations, recalled staying at the Dimock household during her initial trip to India in 1963. “Younger scholars would sleep on his floor when they missed their trains. He fed them when their grant checks didn’t arrive and they had nothing to eat,” she said. “He was absolutely the home base for a half century of American studies in India.”

“He knew everyone in the worlds of government, scholarship, the arts and journalism––everyone,” Doniger continued. “He introduced you to the people you needed to know to do your work and survive in India.”

Born in Roslindale, Mass., Dimock graduated from Yale University in 1950 with a B.A. and received a Ph.D. in 1959 from Harvard University.

Dimock joined the University faculty in 1959 as an Assistant Professor in Linguistics & Oriental Languages, and was appointed Professor in 1966.

In addition to his numerous awards and honors, in 1992, the Indian government awarded Dimock its highest honorary degree title, Desikottama, for his work on Bengali literature. “It’s important for people to remember that Edward Dimock almost single-handedly introduced the study of Bengali to the American academy,” said Clinton Seely, Associate Professor in South Asian Languages & Civilizations. “He also was one of the founders of the South Asian department at Chicago and was much admired by his colleagues here and in India.”


About CC:

Caitanya Caritamrta of Krsnadasa Kaviraja: A Translation and Commentary (Harvard Oriental Series, 56.)
Published in Hardcover by Harvard Univ Pr (October, 2000)
Authors: Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, Edward C. Dimock, Tony Kevin Stewart, and Krsnadasa
Amazon base price: $99.95
Buy one from zShops for: $89.95
Average review score:******

A Treasure
In a crowning achievement to a long and illustrious career, Prof. Dimock has provided us with a wonderful new version of this essential text. For a long time the most available version of CC has been the Hare Krsna (ISKCON) 17 volume set. It is a relief to have this careful, brilliantly done and very readable version in one volume without the eccentric "purports" of the Hare Krsna version. Although a hefty academic text, this book is quite an easy read. Cannot be too highly recommended.

Scholarly Translation of a Seminal Religious Text
Dimock and Stewart's translation of the Caitanya Caritamrta (The Nectar of the Acts of Caitanya) is a readable and extremely well-researched edition of the biography of Sri Caitanya, a 16th century Bengali ascetic who is believed by Gaudiya Vaisnavas to have been the androgynous dual incarnation of Krsna and Radha. The lengthy introduction and notes on translation provide readers unfamiliar with the tradition with all the background they need to appreciate the layers of meaning hidden in the text and the narrative strategies of Krsnadasa that come across so well in this translation. For more background, read Dimock's 1966 book, "The Place of the Hidden Moon". a true classic in the literature of South Asian studies. Highly recommended.

Nabadip-ji,

First of all, thanks to share this bio about such a beautiful being. Second, I must say that whoever had the opportunity to meet him is definitely a fortunate one.

However, I do have some simple questions to ask about DK, according to his bio, “The Thief of Love” was published in 1963, so that was before ACBS started his mission. It is a very important historical fact for GV in the western world. In other words, did he ever meet ACBS, did he ever work with Hare Krishna devotees? If he did, is there any available info about his relation with GV through the famous “Orgs”, Gurus, initiations and so on, at all?


Thanks!

Sorry, I did not see this before, Hari Saranji. Mr. Dimock wrote an foreword to the Gita "as it is" version, and there is an interview with him in Steven Rosen's book on Vaishnavism. It seems he is one of those friendly sources that are quoted to legitimize that ACBS's works have an academic appeal. Probably his connection was exploited for propaganda interviews and the like. As you can see from an article above, he was a fatherly, very friendly man. Since he lived in Calcutta and he knew Bengali literature well, it is likely that he met on a heart-level persons who approached him from West Bengal. Others certainly know more about this. Mina should be a good source for more definite information.

Dear Nabadip-ji,

Thanks for the kindly approaching to my questions. I feel great to have the chance to buy one of Dimock's books and to learn more about this scholar who dedicated his life and capacities for the understanding of the holly nature of Sri Sri Gourasundara and His associates. Furthermore, I acknowledge my thanks to you and Phullakalika Das (a dear friend from Brazil) who helped me to feel and look for that beauty.

Yes! Hopefully Mina or some others will share their experience as a tribute to Mr. Dimock.

Radhe!

How do you know Mr. Dimock was at least vegetarian? Whats the profit to read books written by meat eating non-devotees even they claim to be empowered to write about Chaitanya-lila? And dont come up with Arjuna ate meat. We are followers of Lord Chaitanya who asked His mother not to eat grains on Ekadasi. Think about it!

Well, as history has shown completely vegetarian devotees did not hesitate to misrepresent the Gaudiya tradition, to spread lies about its glorious passage through the centuries, to present themselves as accomplished scholars while they were not really capable to do a serious job in authentic translation and commenting.

Prof. Dimock did not claim to be empowered, he just studied and translated the texts he found. By doing that he certainly pronounced the name "Hari" at least once, and many other holy names in the course of his life. According to the explanation of Sri Gauranga, Prof. Dimock is therefore a vaishnava and to be respected and honored as such.

Besides all this it is up to you whose books you read. It is my personal choice that I prefer to read texts translated and edited by people for whom truthfulness in their job of writing is prominent, even if they lead an unclean life, than be in touch with books whose authors stressed external purity in life-maintenance, but neglected the standards of truthfulness in words and deeds in the representation of their claimed tradition.

If I had another choice in the form of a serious English translation of Sri Caitanya Caritamrita, translated and edited by a traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava sadhaka, that is in the range of quality of Prof. Dimock's edition, I'd most likely prefer that.
Joy Nitai.

Why draw the line at meat-eating? There are other principles of purity, as well. If you're concerned about purity, shouldn't you also make sure that you shun any texts translated by a tobacco user?

Alternatively, why not just judge the texts on their own merits?

The scholarly superiority of one rendition over the other may be indisputable, but the question is, as per CC itself, is either capable of granting the reader liberation?

In this regard, by your own estimation the two renditions are even, whereas the Tradition seems to be doing quite well these days, as it always did.

Meat eating is not only unclean. It is also sinful.

Or, what to speak of a carrot-eater! And even an eggplant-eater!

skAnde-
na bhakSayati vRntAkaM tasya dUrataro hariH || HBV 8.161 ||

I've moved this.

Saintly persons have written about Mahaprabhu. Scholars have written Mahabrabhu, and maybe the common man will write about Mahaprabhu. This shows that they all have been attracted by Mahaprabhu’s net and now in their own way (capacity) they are glorifying Him, the Son of Sacidevi, Sri Krishna Himself! Let’s not forget the spiritual inspiration of Bhaktivinoda who exported the sankirtan movement, aiming to be appreciated by intellectual readers and all others, regardless of their devotion and qualifications.

Let everyone, in their own way, be mad about Mahaprabhu…; The Sweet Lord.

And if there are differences from one to the other, let there be discussions about it.

Hari, notice that in your statement above you are indicating that the scholars have done something other than what the other two categories have. So you do indeed confirm that scholarly is a category apart.

Take the example of the ripe mango fruit which is relished by a parrot and thus becomes more sweet. Somehow you say, learn the language yourself and read the original text yourself.

Did I mean that...? I just wanted say that the mission of Sri Gourahari was/is/will be appreciated by all kinds of people, and regardless of which social division they come from, they all have been attracted by Mahaprabhu's sweetness. As so, scholars have been trying their "best" to glorifying Him. On the other hand, yes, the scholars will have a different approaching to Mahaprahu's Lilas, which the sadhakas, saintly persons or ordinary people might like or not. Nevertheless, the no acceptance of that approaching does not necessarily invalidate the scholar’s sincere attempt to describe the subtle subjects of His pastimes. It is rather another prism or angle of vision.

Hari, within the context of your argument, could you define, "glorifying"?

In this case, I would define glorifying in the context of a “no-devotee-scholar attempting to praise the incommensurable Lord”. It’s a shared-personal-scholastic view of the nature and Lila of a particular Avatara. Although, accepted by many as being far to be an idealistic devotional vision, if the devotees or the non-devotees get benefited that solely, sholastic attempting can be defined as glorification.

There is no conclusive proof that either Ed Dimock or Tony Stewart ever were practictioners of Chaitanyaism. At least this much we can say about them - at least they were not some overzealous Christian missionaries out to discredit the tradition. As far as their academic qualifications, those stand on their own merits.

It would behoove some of the people here to avoid rushing to judgement of people they have never even met.

If the above is true Mina, would you be kind to say something else or add some more about Mr. Dimock, please.

Excuse me, I did not mean to get into your private life.

Radhe!

There is no private life here in the public arena. Of course, our little forum is such an exclusive group, that it more resembles a private club than an actual public forum.

As far as the late Professor Dimock and Tony K. Stewart - I studied with the former and knew the latter as a fellow graduate student at University of Chicago. Ed was a perfect gentleman and always respectful of others. Those are admirable traits in anyone, Vaishnava or non-Vaishnava. If Nitai were not currently haunting the halls of the London Library, I would drag him into the conversation, since he had a closer and longer lasting relationship with Ed than anyone else here.

Even when Ed could barely speak after being treated for throat cancer, he still went out of his way to be friendly and supportive when I spoke with him on the phone back in 1986. I was saddened to hear of his recent demise. Although he may not have been an initiated Vaishnava himself, he was a friend to many Vaishnavas, initiated and non-initiated. He was also a good father to his children.

Some of my fondest memories of University of Chicago are of the classes in which Ed, Nitai, David Haberman and I read through Kunjabihari Das Baba's Manjari Svarupa Nirupana.

I really feel sorry and have to apologize, I didnt know he was a Professor, an academic and a gentleman and at the same time a good father for his children.
Again sorry, I didnt want to rush into judgement of people I never even met.

Absolutely. This is good advice for human society in general, what to speak for an assembly of vaisnavas and aspirants, where the atmosphere should be one of loving, affectionate exchanges.

Dear Mina-ji,

Yes, indeed that was a nice (short) tribute to Mr. Dimock. As I said before in this forum, “whoever had the opportunity to meet Mr. Dimock is a fortunate one.” Now I would say, “what to speak about those who actually worked/studied side by side. They are the most fortunate ones” It is definitely enlivening to read part of Mr. Dimock's character and activities. If you have something else to add about ED, please do so. I’m sure devotees will delight.

To be honest, I wish, if one of this days, you and Nitai could come up with a book with pictures and descriptions about “How everything was 35 years ago, the revolutionary stages of KC east/west and nowadays.” That would be very informative and interesting to have you and Nitai, the “Vyasa and Ganesha” of our days, writing that book.

Nitai-Goura-Hair Bol…! Radhe Radhe !

Thanks,
Yours Harisaran Das

yeah, and Ganesh should be depicted as a riding on a skunk instead of a rat...
Mina, your servant out there awaits your orders...

Come on... What about a swan instead. The milk maybe poisoned; however, swans know how to drink it…

Now where would our resident Ganesh find a swan from? The skunk is already readily available. Why complicate things unnecessarily.

Do not worry, Mr. Madhava. Since the nature of the soul is eternal… time is on our side. No rush; we will find suitable swan for our Ganesh-ji…. Moreover, just keep in mind, swans are cleaner, better, faster, and are already well known in the Vaishnava assemblies. There will be no trouble to find one. So, let’s offer a decent, environmental-friendly seat for our dear Ganesh.

I don't see what being vegetarian or non-vegetarian has to do with translating bengla to english accurately.

What are skunks eating, anyway? Swans are certainly vegetarians. What does it tell about Mina that he attracts skunks rather than swans? That he lives out in the country instead of at a lake? Skunks certainly know the difference well between nice smells and awful smells. While the swan would turn him into a Paramahamsa, the skunk camouflages Mina's status like with an Avadhuta. Avadhuts ara Paramahamsas which is why Mina does not need a swan to enhance his status. The skunk is his perfect vehicle. At night, when he turns into an elephant, that is... At daytime he rides his bike. Or goes for a walk downtown Chicago.
There must be swans on Lake Eirie.

Chicago is on the shores of Lake Michigan. European swans are in abundance in the office complexes all over the Chicago area. Companies rent them and put them in the ponds. Canadian geese have invaded over the past fifteen years as well. They really make a mess of things.

Maybe if you removed that mask...

Did you see that Nabadip? Swans, swans, swans... That all about swans, only.

I suspected it was another lake name, but did not find out on a quick name search. I recall faintly that "hamsa" originally means goose. Is that right, Sanskritists? How do they rent swans? ( For riding them?). No, for real: from whom?
Are there no American swans? Or are they the black kind? Hansadutta had two of those on the small lake of his farm. They sing nicely.
How's your skunk, Mina? Was he house-sitting while you were in India?