The Growth Of The Community - Traditional Gaudiyas in the 21st century

Though much has been said in regards to modernizing the tradition, we have had little discussions in envisioning the social growth of the traditional community in the West.

As it stands, it is a very loosely knit bunch of people scattered all over the globe, with internet mediums such as the forum here and occasional meetings in places of pilgrimage as the only means of interaction. However, inevitably as eventually our numbers grow and people get to know each other better and discover common interests, a community (or communities) will begin to form.

Now, evidently most of us would not be heading towards a monastic solution, but towards the village model more common among traditional Gaudiyas, in which the interaction and unity of a collective of people will not be defined by clearly defined memberships, but rather by natural interest to associate with likeminded individuals.

Though franky speaking at the moment I am as clueless over this as anyone, I am hoping that a discussion on the topic might serve to clarify future perspectives and expectations for us.

Any thoughts?

I think it is decades to early for this. We have about 100 people, about 25% of them staying more or less full time in India, and if we could make glowing dots on a world map indicating our locations we would see that we are indeed often 100s of miles separated from each other. The only place where there is a cluster of us is London, UK. Temples could be opened in due course of time, but I think only a dozen of us would be interested in a dormitory-ashram, myself not included. Another thing is, we have different Gurus with different points of view, we are not a uniform group like the Iskconites. How to conduct services and ceremonies in such a traditional western GV mandir? An organisation with an ashram seems not realistic.

Not only that, but there is a question of personality. Many of us who left Iskcon did so out of distaste for gregarious outreach programs.

Most of us will have to develop our own approaches to community life by taking leadership responsibilities, distasteful as that may sound. I think the beginning is in having regular weekly programs. In other words, to engage in sankirtan.

I feel as though I might be moving towards something like this, but I am still reluctant to make the commitment. I guess I am waiting for a sign.

Oh, I meant nothing of the dormitory-kind, not an ashram. I've had my fair share of that for the time being. More along the lines of meetings, festivals etc. For such events to take place, some degree of organization is necessary. As far as ceremonies etc. are concerned, I'm fairly certain that if there were enough people interested in attending religious programs, we could settle for a common set of songs etc., even if only on a local basis, to facilitate programs with a broad-based attendence.

Decades too early? Well, it's not that I am about to start zealously organizing something at the moment, but I do believe it is a good idea to discuss future visions well in advance, in order to have some thoughts chewed through well enough when the time eventually, and I'd say inevitably, comes.

I am confident that there are studies out there of somewhat parallel situations from among other religions. Any clues?

I'm starting a weekly kirtan, japa medition and Bhagavad Gita study May 27th.

We could focus on an annual, bi-annual or whatever meeting in one place, where we organize workshops on different topics, in an inexpensive suitable solitary place where we stay for the week or whatever period. Suppose we have it in Europe, then we could invite Jagadananda das and others by subsidizing their tickets: We could open a fund into which specific donations could be payed by members and the subsidy could be discussed with the persons concerned. If the ones on the American Continent do the same, they can invite Madhavananda das and Advaitadas.

We could see whether there are enough of us with regular income who could give on a regular basis to an international fund for this purpose. Since not everyone is just 23 years old, we should also look into old-age solutions soon. As you may have noticed from Mina's comments, after 50 you feel old-age approaching fast.

Some of us live in richer countries, and even small amounts may mean a lot in a poorer country. That annual meeting should also discuss such issues.

You know, Advaitadas, one just has to start doing things; as you know well, by itself nothing ever happens. If we start now, something will evolve from it for later generations. We have to try for ourselves what works for us.

We could also look at public workshops at Universities at the side of that annual meeting. I think in most Northern European countries University students understand English.

In my humble opinion it is better to use these resources for going to meet each other at Radhakund, bi-annually in the spring and fall, when the weather is OK and there are lots of festivals going on there. Everything is all ready there - Mandirs, Ashrams. In this way one catches two flies in one blow - we meet each other and we also visit the holy places.

That means just doing everything the Indian way which, besides the benefit of Darshan of the Holy Dham, accomplishes nothing for us here.

Do you realize, there are people here from Eastern Europe who doubt they would ever make it to India due to their low income levels there?!

Even if we do focus on getting eveyone to the Holy Dham, that has to be organized, and fund-raising over the Internet, I do not think that is such a successful thing.

More than half of the western Radhakund residents are from Russia, Uzbekistan, Kazachstan, Slovenia, Ukrain and Hungary and other poor countries like Brazil. I myself am on the rock bottom income level, on welfare benefits and I go 2x a year to India. It costs me 25% of my annual gross income. One does not need 2 summer bungalows and 2 cars per se. Where there is a will there is a way.

I must admit that I thought something along the lines of a "White Village" could be set up in Vraja, a quarter of the town where all the "whiteys" hang out?

But then again I suppose this would be a disruption to the local mundane politics of the area.

I look forward to hearing how this works out. Let us know what you talk about, etc.

You will be doing this in your own house? Do you have anyone to help you with kirtan, etc.? The usual North American timing for starting new things is September. In May everyone is shutting down for the summer, though certain summer programs start.

The times they are-a changing. In the 1980s you'd better live in the whitey ghetto of Ramanreti or you'd be in trouble, now the Indians are used to us and we live everywhere, spread throughout Vrindavan and Radhakund towns. Nobody hassles us anymore.

Unless you happen to be female.

I will be doing it at Above and Beyond, the new body-mind-spirit shop where I just moved my office. There will be a number of classes and workshops held there. I'll be doing a couple of other programs also. We're located in an up and coming business district and hope to get off the ground this summer. I just start stuff as the spirit moves me. I can't wait until fall. We have to get programs up and running now. Who ever comes comes. My wife can help me with kirtan every other week. There's also a percussionist involved with the shop who I hope will come. I don't hestiate to do stuff like this alone even though I'm not the best singer. I've done this before alone. I'll just see what happens. I intend to start out pretty basic. I'll see who the audience is and go from there. Thanks for your interest.

In my countr, Hungary, the average monthly wage is about 350 USD. Of course, like in all ex-communist countries, there is a growing class of people who just do not know how to spend their money, but none of these persons earn their living in legal and honest ways. Furthermore, many of us have families, children, so believe me, it is not an easy thing to make it to India. I have been trying to go there since I was 18. Now I am 35 and still could not make it. But this is my personal problem, I know.

So starting programs would be great. The only problem I see with that is the following: when it comes to getting deeper into bhakti, I mean getting different initiations, all we can suggest to people is that they should go to India. I am sure many can afford this, but many cannot. Perhaps we should invite some of the traditional gurus to Europe, for example, so that devotees with a lower income can also afford to meet them, receive the necessary initiations, etc.

Let's resurrect this thread for change.

For those who cannot readily come to India, I wonder whether some of us in wealthier countries could help bring India to the world?

How much would it cost (taking full advantage of any available discounts, charities, etc) to arrange a "world tour" program for one or more gurus or senior sadhus from the traditional parivaras?

Imagine a twelve-stop tour, based on where the current known interest is (based on participation in this forum)... perhaps one stop in Eastern Europe, two stops in Western Europe, one in the UK, three across the continental USA, one in Canada, one in South America, one in Hawaii, and a couple in Australia.

I expect that some devotees who could financially afford a trip to India, but whose current family/business commitments preclude much vacation travel, might be willing to help subsidize such a tour, as it would not only help many other aspiring devotees, but would also give the organizers access to inspiring sadhu-sanga (and possibly even initiation if the aspirant were qualified and ready).

Personally, I would greatly like to meet Srivatsa Goswami someday; his father inspired me deeply in the mid-1980s, and whether or not I were to accept diksha from him (or someone else in his family lineage), I feel that I owe his lineage a great debt of gratitude. If he were able to visit within a day or two's drive from my home, I would do everything I could to visit him, and help cover his expenses; if he were willing to stay in my hometown I would happily either open my home to him or put him up in a nice hotel, depending on his preferences.

I would be similarly eager to have darsana of other senior devotees from other parivaras. If we could figure out the likely cost of a multi-stop "world tour" and then take up some contributions to fund it, this might provide immeasurable inspiration to devotees who cannot travel widely. Furthermore, I suspect that after meeting some authentic sadhus, many who "can't" now travel to India would find renewed inspiration to make that trip in the future.

Alternatively, instead of a multi-stop tour, might it be feasible (and might some guru be willing to leave the dhama) to arrange a tour of extended duration in just one or two locations? If I knew that Srivatsa Goswami would be in London or Toronto for a couple of months, for example, I could almost certainly arrange my schedule so as to spend a week visiting him, whereas if he were doing a quick series of week-long visits from town to town, it might be harder to arrange a visit other than in the town closest to me.

Again, I don't mean to suggest that this is any substitute for visiting the dhama... but I believe that many would become more inspired to visit the dhama after meeting a sadhu in the West.

Does anyone here think this idea (or some modification of it) is desirable and feasible? If so, how can we make it happen?

Srivatsa Goswami's brother Venu Gopal comes west, but he's a different kettle of fish. Srivatsa would appeal to both Western and Indian devotees. If appeals were made to the Hindu community, these traditional sadhus would have a double appeal.

Venu Gopal comes across with the Sivananda Yoga people. His Bhagavata saptahas are not really satisfying to those who hunger for pure devotion.

Srivatsa, of course, speaks perfect English, has a very pleasing appearance, and deep, deep knowledge and culture. He is a perfect candidate for sure.

During my last visit to Vraja I spoke of this briefly with my Baba. He laughed in his usual jolly manner, indicating that it did not seem like anything he would be doing anytime soon, but then added that if Radharani so wishes, then certainly he is obliged to go.

As far as I can see in practical terms, it is merely a matter of gathering and coordinating resources.

A friend just went around the world from Helsinki > London > a dozen places all around > London > Helsinki, and paid under $2000 USD for the tickets.

Dandavats. All lories to the Vaisnavas.

I would be open in helping pay for such a tour of any of these esteemed Vaisnavas. My family and I do have a hard time traveling with school and such and we have always really enjoyed hosting Vaisnavas; it is a service we relish.

Aspiring to serve the Vaisnavas,
Rasaraja dasa

Ras,

I wish that one day i became at least 1% like you, in a way how you honor and serve devotees.
Madhava,Adiyen, Advaita Das and Jagat, i don't think that i will come up to that level, even in next few lives.

Does Maharaj lecture in Hindi also?

As everything is indicating here, sounds like Babaji Maharaja will have to get ready for his first world tour, soon…
Gourapremanande, Hari Hari Booollll.....

Radhe Radhe !