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Reviews of titles by Gaudiya authors, as well as by other relevant spiritual and secular authors. Tips for reading. Discussions on various books.

Waves Of Devotion :: Dhanurdhara Swami - Bhagavat Books



Jagat - Mon, 05 Apr 2004 06:52:23 +0530

Waves of Devotion

A Comprehensive Study of the Nectar of Devotion
by Dhanurdhara Swami (Bhagavat Books, 2000)

About a year or so ago, I was sent a copy of Dhanurdhara Swami’s book Waves of Devotion and asked to review it. I did not immediately respond then, for reasons that will become clear. I hope that I will be forgiven for now saying what I think.

The first impression is good. The book has a nice cover with a picture of Rupa and Sanatan Goswamis on it, is printed on good quality paper and the text is nicely laid out.

user posted image


Waves of Devotion is meant to be a companion volume to A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami’s Nectar of Devotion, which most devotees know is his translation of Rupa Goswami’s Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. Dhanurdhara Maharaj takes pains in his introduction to defend himself against any possibility of criticism that he has tried to supersede the acharya: “Everything is in Prabhupada’s books, which are complete in and of themselves... However due to our own deficiencies in devotion and scholarship, we sometimes have difficulty understanding them deeply.” He thus defines his own attempt as simply trying to understand his spiritual master’s work more deeply by setting it in the context of a more profound understanding of Vaishnava philosophy.

Dhanurdhara Maharaja recognizes that there may be mistakes in the NOD, but stresses that these were the result of the early editors’ misunderstandings. He compares the situation to that of the Bhagavad Gita, which as we know has undergone many controversial changes as a result of an examination of the original tapes and transcripts, which were found to differ considerable in both language and spirit from the published edition, sometimes with not inconsiderable philosophical consequences. Maharaja laments that the original tapes and transcripts of the Nectar of Devotion made by Srila Prabhupada were never found, but that he did use the original Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu and its commentaries to augment his interpretation and understanding of NOD, and that this book is the fruit of his efforts. By making such comparisons, he was able to discover many clear mistakes, often resulting from transcriptional errors.

This effort to more deeply understand the Gaudiya Vaishnava legacy Srila Prabhupada was attempting to represent is laudable. It forms what might be considered only the beginning of a great project of critically examining Srila Prabhupada's corpus of writings.

Satyaraj Dasji gives an example in his foreword of one error the Maharaja has taken pains to point out. It is the confusion surrounding the terms raganuga and ragatmika, which has caused those of us in the raganuga line no end of hair-tearing frustration in discussions with devoted Iskconites. Satyaraja writes:
Among the most serious of these faux pas involves the words raganuga and ragatmika, which the Swami discusses in Chapter Fifteen of this book. Reading The Nectar of Devotion, one might conclude that raganuga is a state of perfection wherein one is spontaneously absorbed in love of God. However, Dhanurdhara Swami points out that this definition is more appropriately applied to ragatmika -- a term that is reserved for the eternally free associates of Krishna in the spiritually world. Raganuga, on the other hand, is a form of devotional practice (sadhana) and is not a state of perfection. True, one practicing raganuga “follows in the wake” of the ragatmika devotees of the celestial kingdom, but they are practitioners, not perfected beings. It is also true that to follow such ragatmika devotees, one has to be extremely advanced.

This confusion in terminology had consequences in the community of Vaishnavas (sic). Sincere devotees interested in raganuga bhakti (though not practicing it) were often branded sahajiyas (imitationists) because it was thought that they were identifying themselves with liberated beings. (page iv)
Other positive features of Waves of Devotion are the concordance the author gives to the original Sanskrit text (which could nevertheless have been done in even greater detail), and the specifying of Sanskrit terms where none have been given in NOD. All this makes it easier to find what in NOD is supposed to be a translation of what in BRS.

Perhaps Dhanurdhar Swami's most valuable contribution is in the numerous charts that pictorially represent the various categories under discussion, along with their divisions and subdivisions, thus making it easier to quickly grasp the structure of the composition.

Nevertheless, I believe that Dhanurdhara’s work is nothing more than a very ginger step at both rectifying the mistakes found in the NOD and in reaching a deeper understanding of the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu. Even though we acknowledge that the editorial problems outlined by Dhanurdhara Swami are doubtless one of the causes of erroneous understanding entering NOD, a closer examination of the book and comparisons to the original BRS quickly reveal that the problems with this work are much more extensive.

It is my belief that Srila Prabhupada undertook the work of present the Nectar of Devotion primarily out of an interest in the first section, which outlines the principles of sadhana-bhakti. At the same time, he wanted to give his disciples some glimpses of the rasas of pure devotional life, as he had also done in The Krishna Book. But it is clear that these later portions of the Nectar of Devotion are seriously deficient, and appear to have been done hurriedly without a great deal of reflection or scholarship. The reader is left at best with a number of vignettes of Krishna’s pastimes, but only a partial insight into Rupa Goswami's seminal contribution to Gaudiya Vaishnava understanding of the Divine.

Dhanurdhara Maharaja, with only a superficial knowledge of Sanskrit and Bengali, seems to have been entirely unequipped to discover these errors or to rectify them. Indeed, it seems that the Swami has not really approached the NOD critically at all.

There are principally three kinds of errors in the Nectar of Devotion:
  1. Omissions. Srila Prabhupada does not always translate the karikas (the verses that define terms or make specific philosophical points), and even when he does, often does not seem to make any attempt to understand the substantial points that are being made therein. He has also omitted many of the examples also.
  2. Incorrect translations of both karikas and example verses.
  3. Incorrect explanations of examples.
I could present many examples of these. One taken more or less at random is the following (2.4.155-156) describing the twenty-seventh vyabhicAri-bhAva, augryam, which Prabhupada translates as “violence” in Nectar of Devotion, chapter 30. First of all, the translation “violence” itself does violence to the meaning. Violence is not an emotion or an attitude, and augryam is better translated as “fierceness, ferociousness.”

(1) Omission. Non-translation of a karika:

aparAdha-durukty-Adi- jAtaM caNDatvam ugratA |
vadha-bandha-ziraH-kampa-bhartsanottADanAdi-kRt ||

The karika has not been translated at all, despite not being a particularly difficult challenge. Its absence is damaging because it serves an important purpose in preserving the work’s overall structure for the reader, keeping him or her oriented. The karika here, as with all the other ones describing the vyabhicArIs includes (1) the causes or particular situations that give rise to this emotional response; (2) a definition or synonym, in this case caNDatvam, and (3) associated moods and activities (anubhAvas). The examples that follow will be based on the causes of the particular vyabhicArI and the commentaries will usually point out the anubhAva.

In this particular case Dhanurdhara has helped only by offering “ferocity” as a supplementary definition for augryam, but without critically commenting on "violence" (p.209).

(2) Incorrect translation:

sphurati mayi bhujaGgI-garbha-vizraMsi-kIrtau
viracayati mad-Ize kilbiSaM kAliyo’pi |
huta-bhuji bata kuryAM jAThare vauSaD enaM
sapadi danuja-hantuH kintu roSAd bibhemi ||

Prabhupada’s translation:
“When Krishna was fighting with the Kaliya snake by dancing on his heads, Kaliya bit Krishna on the leg. At that time Garuda became infuriated and began to murmur, “(i) Krishna is so powerful that simply by His thundering voice (ii) the wives of Kaliya have had miscarriages. (iii) Because my Lord has been insulted by this snake, (iv) I wish to devour him immediately, but I cannot do so in the presence of my Lord, because He may become angry with me.”
This is not, in fact, a translation at all, but a kind of general summary, that not only contains errors, but glosses over certain particularities of the verse, particularly in the third line (iv).
Garuda says: "(i) My reputation is such that simply hearing of me causes (ii) female snakes to miscarry, (iii) yet here in my presence this Kaliya does violence to my Lord. (iv) I would offer this serpent to the sacrificial fire of my belly, but I fear Krishna's anger, for he is the killer of demons."
A comparison of these two translations will quickly show that the first one is misleading in places. One may think nothing particularly important has been lost, but as a scholar of Sanskrit, I personally find it quite disturbing--a translation is supposed to faithfully represent the original.

Nevertheless, had this been the only such example, it would perhaps be forgivable, but such instances are repeated over and over again. The cumulative affect of such errors vitiates the overall value of the document and faith in it as a reliable source of information.

(3) Incorrect explanations.

Prabhupada explains the above verse as being “an instance of eagerness to act in ecstatic love as a result of dishonor to Krishna,” though this is clearly an example of "augryam." There is no mention of “violence” here, nor has Dhanurdhara deemed it necessary to rectify this rather obvious error. We are left with an almost total incomprehension of what Rupa Goswami intended.

In fact Dhanurdhara confines his comments on NOD chapters 29-31, which covers BRS 2.4 on vyabhicAri-bhAvas to a few short pages.

Another random search shows that verse 2.4.97 has been given in NOD as an example of moha rather than mriti; verses 2.4.101-104 seem to have been dropped entirely; 2.4.105 is hopelessly disconnected from the meaning of the original; and in 2.4.106 zrama is defined as “a dislike of excessive labor”!

One may rightly conclude that if these relatively simple matters are rife with error, then what of the more serious philosophical issues, the building blocks of Rupa’s rasa theory, for instance? Let us take a look at the concluding verses of the southern wave of the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu

vyatItya bhAvanA-vartma
yaz camatkAra-bhAra-bhUH |
hRdi sattvojjvale bADhaM
svadate sa raso mataH ||
Rasa is the taste, filled with a weighty sense of wonderment, that is relished in the heart effulgent with pure being (sattva), by one who has transcended the path of thought. (BRS 2.5.132)
This verse cannot really be separated from the one that follows it, as Jiva and the other commentators specify that the two verses are meant to clarify the distinction between bhAva (or rati) and rasa, the relationship between which is essential to the understanding of either one.

bhAvanAyAH pade yas tu
budhenAnanya-buddhinA
bhAvyate gADha-saMskAraiz
citte bhAvaH sa kathyate
Bhava is that which exists in the realm of thought (bhAvanAyAH pade) and is dwelt upon in the mind of the intelligent person, whose intelligence is exclusively fixed [on this goal], and [is made possible] through a set of deep conditionings.(BRS 2.5.133)
Jiva Goswami clarifies this distinction by comparing it to that of dhyAna (bhAva) and samAdhi (rasa). Jiva specifies here that sattva in the first verse is the cause of bhäva, refering to BRS 1.3.1 (zuddha-sattva-vizeSAtmA). According to Mukunda, bhAva is the main cause of rasa, and deep conditioning (gADha-saMskAra) is the cause of bhAva.

Vishwanath says: “Through the combination of the various ingredients, one first encounters bhäva (bhAva-sAkSAtkAra), this develops into the actual appropriation of the bhAva (bhAva-svarUpa). This in turn, with the conjunction of the various ingredients, results in the encounter with rasa (rasa-sAkSAtkAra). These two verses clarify the distinction between rati and rasa. When one goes beyond reflecting on the various ingredients of rasa, the vibhävas, etc., and simply relishes them, that is called rasa. Such rasa is described as camatkAra-bhAra-bhUH, meaning that it produces a type of wondrousness that is not found in mere reflection. So bhAva is experienced on the mental platform, when one reflects on the various ingredients. On the level of the encounter with rasa (rasa-sAkSAtkAra), one does not experience the various ingredients independently of one another. This means that the encounter with bhAva (bhAva-sAkSAtkAra) is less profound than that with rasa (rasa-sAkSAtkAra)."

Though these commentaries show that there is clearly a great deal to digest here, Srila Prabhupada has summarized these verses with the following brief words: “When one transcends the status of ecstatic love and becomes situated on the platform of pure goodness, one is understood to have cleansed the heart of all material contamination. In that pure stage of life, one can taste this nectar, and this tasting capacity is technically called rasa, or transcendental mood.” (NOD, p. 281).

“Transcends the status of ecstatic love” is frankly a disastrous mistranslation of vyatItya bhAvanA-vartma. Dhanurdhara has unfortunately not been able to shine any light on this, merely prefacing Prabhupada’s translation with the anodyne comment: “Only in bhava-bhakti can one actually relish rasa.”

I am sure that Waves of Devotion will be of help to the ordinary Iskcon devotee. Dhanurdhara Swami has tried to do something about some of the problems encountered in reading NOD, but has not, in my opinion, gone nearly far enough. He has certainly ameliorated the situation in some respects, but is handicapped by two distinct disadvantages: a lack of knowledge of Sanskrit and the rasa-shastra tradition in which Rupa Goswami is coming, and by an unwillingness to challenge Srila Prabhupada's treatment of Rupa's text.

In the first of these, he is not alone, as it seems that despite rasa being the cornerstone of Rupa Goswami’s understanding of the Vaishnava experience, not many in the Gaudiya Math tradition have made a serious attempt to understand what it means or how it works. In the latter, he reveals one of Iskcon's principal weaknesses. Idolatry of the guru leads to intellectual ossification. If the guru has opened the door to Rupa Goswami, will he then stand in the doorway and prevent you from going through? Let us not be afraid of exploring Rupa Goswami in depth, without being prevented by a fear of contradicting Srila Prabhupada's interpretation, or by the obligation to accept even his mistaken translations or understandings as divine inspiration.
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:02:45 +0530

Dhanurdhara Maharaj's response to my review:

Thank you for sending me Jagadananda's book review of Waves of Devotion. Yes, I am not a scholar and any attempt I make in that field will be rife with deficiencies. I'm satisfied, however, that I made The NOD and BRS much more accessible and that it serves the spirit of Srila Rupa Goswami's mission. In the introduction I call for a scholarly word-for-word translation, acknowledge that Srila Prabhupada's objectives for NOD were in a sense minimal, and offer Waves as a humble attempt to broaden devotees understanding of the subject. I admit Srila Prabhupada deliberately omitted tens of verse. I wonder if Jagadananda actually read my book. That he couldn't appreciate it for what it admittedly was and perhaps even acknowledge its clarity of presentation on the basic tenets of the subject just gives the impression that he was looking for an excuse to express a pet peeve, perhaps Srila Prabhupada's and ISKCON's apparent lack of scholarship.

Frankly I'm surprised as a scholar that he missed the difficulty of my task, to augment one of Srila Prabhupada's main texts for the ISKCON audience, which includes a substantial right-wing.

I'm also surprised that he missed in the intro my explanation of Srila Prabhupada's objective in writing NOD which makes it quite unfair to nit-pick his scholarship: "The Nectar of Devotion is specifically presented for persons who are now engaged in the Krishna conscious movement."

Yes, I hestitate to lambaste Srila Prabhupada's work. It's not that I am just his disciple, but I am a Vaishnava who feels forced to acknowledge Srila Prabhupada's empowerment by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. I thus deal with him carefully. Who am I? Is that "intellectual ossification" or the spirit of our guru varg?

Let's see what Sri Narada says:
"On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest."

I suggest that instead of his narrow academic approach that lacks reasonable generosity Jagadananda take note of Srila Prabhupada's spirit as cited in the purport to this text:
"Our presenting this matter in adequate language, especially a foreign language, will certainly fail, and there will be so many literary discrepancies despite our honest attempt to present it in the proper way. But we are sure that with all our faults in this connection the seriousness of the subject matter will be taken into consideration, and the leaders of society will still accept this due to its being an honest attempt to glorify the Almighty God."
It’s ironic. I oppose anti-intellectualism in ISKCON. But which is worse, that or dry
scholarship with an agenda?

Dhanurdhara Swami
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:08:24 +0530
Naturally, when writing a review, one treats the book in question in terms of one's own priorities. Dhanurdhara Maharaj is thus quite correct in saying that I was expressing one of my "pet peeves." I tried to express appreciation for his work, which in the context it was written is definitely a step forward. If I was insufficiently lavish in my praise, I ask forgiveness.

We all stand at different places on the spectrum of perception. If Dhanurdhar is to the left of Iskcon's right wing, then I do him a service by showing him how far out we real left-wingers are. The radical fringe always serves the interests of the moderates in the long run!
Madhava - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:43 +0530
Have you ever noticed that whenever something is scholarly, but somehow doesn't jibe with the way we view things, it is dry scholarship?
braja - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:21:28 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Apr 13 2004, 02:40 PM)
Have you ever noticed that whenever something is scholarly, but somehow doesn't jive with the way we view things, it is dry scholarship?

I wouldn't read too much into that. The exchange of letters was not Dhanurdhara Swami writing Jagat directly and was an initial response to a friend, somewhat pained, and naturally so. The contexts are all somewhat blurred.

Some people give up their lives at the Triveni, but this particular meeting of three different rivers ("enlightened" ISKCON, raganuga, and scholarship) shouldn't result in any pain.
Advaitadas - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:26:28 +0530
Typical Iskcon response -

QUOTE
Yes, I hestitate to lambaste Srila Prabhupada's work. It's not that I am just his disciple, but I am a Vaishnava who feels forced to acknowledge Srila Prabhupada's empowerment by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. I thus deal with him carefully.


The hackneyed argument that Prabhupada can change Rupa Gosvami's teachings because he opened so many temples. If he opened a billion temples and made a zillion disciples he can still not change, let alone twist even one syllable of Rupa Gosvami's teachings.

QUOTE
Let's see what Sri Narada says: "On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest."


'Imperfectly composed' refers to grammatical or spelling errors, not to a gross misrepresentation of Rupa Gosvami's teachings. This also is a constant misquote by ACBS apologists. I spoke with Gaudiya Math Gurus who were even appalled with ACBS' misrepresentation of BRS, what to speak of non-followers of Bhaktisiddhanta. Since ACBS quoted the story of the Brahmin who burned his finger on the mentally offered sweet rice, which is not even in the mula text of BRS but only in its tika by Jiva Gosvami, it is clear that he was not ignorant of the text and therefore his wrong teachings about meditation, assuming relationships with Krishna and of course qualification for raganuga bhakti, which he attributed to Rupa Gosvami, were deliberately misleading.
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:30:50 +0530
Perhaps I should not have posted this without Dhanurdhara's specific approval. Impatient as usual, I went ahead, even though I asked him if he wanted to change his wording or anything.

I think Braja is right. There are different perspectives. From where Dhanurdhara stands, he has done a service to the Iskcon bhaktas for whom NOD is a mystery. He has certainly moved Iskcon's goalposts, even if he does not go far enough from our point of view.

And on that spectrum I was talking about, I can boast that I am not even the furthest along! tongue.gif
braja - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:37:29 +0530
QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Apr 13 2004, 02:56 PM)
Typical Iskcon response -

QUOTE

Yes, I hestitate to lambaste Srila Prabhupada's work. It's not that I am just his disciple, but I am a Vaishnava who feels forced to acknowledge Srila Prabhupada's empowerment by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. I thus deal with him carefully.


The hackneyed argument that Prabhupada can change Rupa Gosvami's teachings because he opened so many temples. If he opened a billion temples and made a zillion disciples he can still not change, let alone twist even one syllable of Rupa Gosvami's teachings.

No, that is not the argument at all. It goes more like this:

QUOTE
Baba also gave the important warning that one should not try to detect mistakes in it with the view to correct them. He said that such a mentality is a serious spiritual offense against 108 Shri Sakhicharana Dasa Babaji who, as a Shri Shri Gurudeva, is also a prakasha (manifestation) of Shri Krishna.

(madrasibaba.org)

If Krsna has appeared to you thru a particular person you tread carefully. One cannot approach the guru as if he were ordinary. It is basic etiquette.

Please don't see fire just because there is something that appears red.
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:42:29 +0530
That old guru question certainly is a touchy one. We have to give freedom to others to follow their nishtha.

Yesterday, when I was feeling hurt about Mahavirya's reaction to me, I ended up feeling better when I justified his reaction in my mind by calling it fear. But whatever his motivation, it was hard for me to feel respect for his guru-nishtha. That was wrong.

After all, respecting other people's adhikara is the same thing as respecting them.
Advaitadas - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:43:14 +0530
QUOTE
Baba also gave the important warning that one should not try to detect mistakes in it with the view to correct them. He said that such a mentality is a serious spiritual offense against 108 Shri Sakhicharana Dasa Babaji who, as a Shri Shri Gurudeva, is also a prakasha (manifestation) of Shri Krishna.


It is not that simple. With Sakhicaran Das Babaji as a Guru you dont face the choice between Rupa Gosvami and the Guru, but you do face that choice with ACBS. Of course strictly personally speaking one cannot tell ACBS followers what to do, to make that choice or not. However - rupa raghunatha pade hoibe akuti kobe ham bujhabo se yugala priti. And reversely, by not following Rupa-Raghunath, is there any way to understand Yugal Priti? I think that clear choice is there. That was not at all the case for a disciple of Sakhicaran Das Baba.
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:50:05 +0530
Advaitaji, I think that you place to much emphasis on "right" gurus and "wrong" gurus. Even a "wrong" guru is still guru in relation to the disciple whose adhikara is appropriate in relation to him. Don't you think?

The universe is large, the jivas are countless. All are somewhere on the spectrum (to use the word again) and Sri Guru appears to them all in some form or another. Though we may say it is all kapata-dharma, that is partly unfair. Some have the samskara to understand the yugala-rasa, some don't. Rupa Goswami himself says you need both praktani and adhuniki samskara.

So far from being something that we condemn, guru-nistha is full of merit.
braja - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:50:54 +0530
QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Apr 13 2004, 03:13 PM)
It is not that simple. With Sakhicaran Das Babaji as a Guru you dont face the choice between Rupa Gosvami and the Guru, but you do face that choice with ACBS.

Some will argue that this is a false dilemma; that is it possible to both respect the guru who brought you Krsna and to access Rupa Goswami. How? Well, that is the most amazing thing.
braja - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:58:29 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Apr 13 2004, 03:00 PM)
I think Braja is right. There are different perspectives. From where Dhanurdhara stands, he has done a service to the Iskcon bhaktas for whom NOD is a mystery. He has certainly moved Iskcon's goalposts, even if he does not go far enough from our point of view.

What's that saying, "Whether to be the tail of a tiger or the head of a cat?" smile.gif

Waves of Devotion, along with Sukavaka's Hindu Encounters were potentially the most effective books that circulated widely within ISKCON for the past few years.

Anyways, in my reference to the context of those exchanges, I also mean the personalities behind them. And the events that went into the writing of the book, and the consciousness of the writer, etc., etc. Basically: why can't everyone just see the world the same way I do? I can't spend my entire life filling in the background for everyone. wink.gif
Advaitadas - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:00:16 +0530
QUOTE
Some will argue that this is a false dilemma; that is it possible to both respect the guru who brought you Krsna and to access Rupa Goswami. How? Well, that is the most amazing thing.


It is not that hard. You find the answer on the same site, madrasibaba.org
Cintamani is the vartma pradarshak guru, but Somagiri is the diksa Guru. Respect must be given to her, but Bilvamangal did not stay with her his whole life either. He moved on to Somagiri. That is the difference. Visvanath Cakravarti says in his SB 11.9.31 tika that the diksa guru is the real, ultimate Guru, not the vartma pradarshak guru. It is clear from the Krishna Karnamrita's introductory verse.

And access Rupa Gosvami? Perhaps, but not with the ultimate result, if that same person blocks Rupa Gosvami's flow of mercy by twisting the crucial issue of raga adhikara....
Jagat - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:13:00 +0530
QUOTE(braja @ Apr 13 2004, 03:28 PM)
Waves of Devotion, along with Sukavaka's Hindu Encounters were potentially the most effective books that circulated widely within ISKCON for the past few years.

Perhaps you could explain this. Sukavak's book I know (though maybe for everyone's benefit, you could write a review for this forum rolleyes.gif ), but please tell me how Dhanurdhara's book fits the description you give here. I may well have missed something important.
Madhava - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:39:46 +0530
Well, can you think of many other books that would reach the top five of most effective books circulated within ISKCON circles, I mean those read-in-the-closet books excluded?
braja - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:44:16 +0530
My armchair has turned into a rocking chair.

I've got a ton of accounting to do in the next couple of days (taxes due) and will then see if there is anything else I can/will contribute.
betal_nut - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:32:50 +0530
QUOTE
it is clear that he was not ignorant of the text and therefore his wrong teachings about meditation, assuming relationships with Krishna and of course qualification for raganuga bhakti, which he attributed to Rupa Gosvami, were deliberately misleading.


What were his misleading teachings about meditation and assuming relationships with Krishna?
I assume with the misleading teachings about raganuga bhakti adhikara was the part where raganuga bhakti is defined as ragatmika bhakti.
Madhava - Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:36:42 +0530
QUOTE(betal_nut @ Apr 14 2004, 03:02 PM)
QUOTE
it is clear that he was not ignorant of the text and therefore his wrong teachings about meditation, assuming relationships with Krishna and of course qualification for raganuga bhakti, which he attributed to Rupa Gosvami, were deliberately misleading.


What were his misleading teachings about meditation and assuming relationships with Krishna?
I assume with the misleading teachings about raganuga bhakti adhikara was the part where raganuga bhakti is defined as ragatmika bhakti.

Please, start a new thread for this under the ISKCON/GM area if you wish to pursue it further.
braja - Wed, 05 May 2004 22:37:46 +0530
Dhanurdhara Maharaja asked me to post his response here. My apologies for the delay in getting it up.

My response to Jagadananda’s review of Waves of Devotion was not intended for the Gaudiya Discussions Forum or his website. Satyaraja, a close friend, forwarded his book review to me and I sent him a quick message in return. That it was posted without informing me was a faux-pas that Jagadananda was gracious enough to admit. It thus contained apparently pejorative terms such as “dry scholarship,” which may have been removed in addressing a general audience. I appreciate the opportunity to post another response, cognizant of the audience that it is meant for, although I do stand by what I said in my previous post, especially concerning the relevance of Sri Narada’s statement to the discussion. I just hope to make those points even clearer.

My objection to Jagadananda’s review was that it critiqued my book, and consequently The Nectar of Devotion, for its failure to be something it was never intended to be. That he did so indicated that he never thoroughly read it, although he has since written me noting that he occasionally checked it in order to compare it to his own translations. For these reasons his review might appear to be primarily about a personal issue rather than the book itself—an attitude I thus described as his “pet peeve.” I say that lightly because although I haven’t seen Jagadananda in many years, I have fond memories of him from India as a principled and warmhearted person.

Here’s what I said in my introduction in terms of the objective of The Nectar of Devotion and its companion Waves of Devotion, and why I think the direction of Jagadananda’s critique gradually drifted towards a straw man:

“The Nectar of Devotion is not a translation of the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu: it is a summary study. Srila Prabhupada’s main intention in writing The Nectar of Devotion was not primarily to produce an edition for academicians and Sanskrit scholars. His intention was practical: to provide his disciples an essential understanding of the practices and ideals of Krishna consciousness and to introduce the Western world to the beauty of our devotional concepts.

“He himself tells us: “The Nectar of Devotion is specifically presented for persons who are now engaged in the Krishna consciousness movement.” (NOD, p. xviii)

“Comparing The Nectar of Devotion to the verses of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu makes it evident that Srila Prabhupada gave his dictations while systematically consulting the original text and commentaries, as was his standard in translating other prominent Vaisnava scriptures. However, as The Nectar of Devotion is a summary study, he did not use his standard format of Sanskrit script, Roman transliteration, Sanskrit/English word-for-word, English translation, and commentary for each text.

“By writing in this way, Srila Prabhupada could sometimes take the liberty to greatly expand the original text when his audience needed a more relevant explanation. He could also drastically summarize sections he felt weren’t so relevant to his audience. In translated sections in the last division of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu he would sometimes even omit tens of verses at a stretch.

“To study Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu in detail, one requires a complete translation of the texts and commentaries. Srila Prabhupada’s widely acclaimed Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and Caitanya-caritamrta attest to his qualification for this task. If Srila Prabhupada had stayed with us longer, he may have given us a complete translation of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu—just as he gave us Caitanya-caritamrta even after previously publishing its summary study, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and similarly, as he gave us the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam even after previously publishing its summary study, Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead.

“…We hope in the future one of Srila Prabhupada’s followers will translate and present the Bhakti­-rasamrta-sindhu in a standard verse-by-verse translation. Meanwhile, Waves of Devotion attempts to take up a part of this service that he left for us.”

Even if Jagadananda feels that any attempt to augment The Nectar of Devotion must, more or less, go to the extent of a thorough translation of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, I wonder if he thought carefully about the scope of that task, and especially the time required to do it. I did:

“There are similar problems in the transcription and editing of The Nectar of Devotion, especially since the book is longer and more complex. Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu has 2,129 verses­—almost three times as many as Bhagavad-gita—which often describe complex philosophical points and subtle nuances in rasa.”

I think if someone does undergo the task of producing a quality verse-by-verse translation and commentary of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, it may take the bulk of one’s time for at least half a decade. It might also somewhat help them to appreciate what Srila Prabhupada gave, considering he could only give six months to the job at a time when he was already burdened with the task of nurturing a burgeoning spiritual movement. They might also appreciate Waves of Devotion augmenting this text in a substantial way.

These texts remain practically the only translations with English commentary of the complete Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. I did take a cursory glance at David Haberman’s translation, and although it’s a fine translation, I got the impression that it was also limited in introducing the English-speaking world to the text, since it lacks a Sanskrit/English word-for-word translation and commentary for each verse—essential additions for understanding Sanskrit texts with extensive philosophical and technical content.

The Nectar of Devotion has been the sole access to the complete Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu in the English-speaking world for almost 30 years. In this regard, Waves of Devotion and Haberman’s translation have recently become additions to this service. However, until a compassionate Vaisnava is willing to make the sacrifice to give us a verse-by-verse translation and commentary, these books will be the light to the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for those unfortunate to be able to read them in their original languages.

Perhaps if Jagadananda had understood Waves of Devotion in this context, he might have been able to comment more objectively without his opinions being biased by his passion to see the works of the Gosvami’s translated only in their full depth.

Although I am confident that Waves of Devotion covers the subject matter of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu—including the later sections—in a comprehensive and readable way, and that it is appreciated by many devotees seeking to considerably deepen their own knowledge of the subject, I still feel strongly that the Vaisnava community deserves a full translation and commentary of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. And it seems we also need a scholar with the heart and discipline to do it.

I thus sincerely hope that Jagadananda takes up this task for the benefit of the Vaisnava community. From what I hear, he is qualified to do so. I could certainly further my own understanding of this complex subject by the depth of his scholarship.


Dhanurdhara Swami
betal_nut - Thu, 06 May 2004 08:21:43 +0530
QUOTE
The Nectar of Devotion has been the sole access to the complete Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu in the English-speaking world for almost 30 years. In this regard, Waves of Devotion and Haberman’s translation have recently become additions to this service. However, until a compassionate Vaisnava is willing to make the sacrifice to give us a verse-by-verse translation and commentary, these books will be the light to the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for those unfortunate to be able to read them in their original languages.


This was already done by Bhakti Hridoy Bon Maharaj decades ago.
What is he talking about?
Elpis - Thu, 06 May 2004 08:28:53 +0530
QUOTE(betal_nut @ May 5 2004, 10:51 PM)
QUOTE
The Nectar of Devotion has been the sole access to the complete Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu in the English-speaking world for almost 30 years. In this regard, Waves of Devotion and Haberman’s translation have recently become additions to this service. However, until a compassionate Vaisnava is willing to make the sacrifice to give us a verse-by-verse translation and commentary, these books will be the light to the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for those unfortunate to be able to read them in their original languages.

This was already done by Bhakti Hridoy Bon Maharaj decades ago.
What is he talking about?

Bon did not publish the entire Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu in English, but only a part of it. Hence the word complete in Dhanurdhara's text.
braja - Thu, 06 May 2004 08:35:12 +0530
QUOTE(betal_nut @ May 5 2004, 10:51 PM)
QUOTE
The Nectar of Devotion has been the sole access to the complete Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu in the English-speaking world for almost 30 years. In this regard, Waves of Devotion and Haberman’s translation have recently become additions to this service. However, until a compassionate Vaisnava is willing to make the sacrifice to give us a verse-by-verse translation and commentary, these books will be the light to the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu for those unfortunate to be able to read them in their original languages.


This was already done by Bhakti Hridoy Bon Maharaj decades ago.
What is he talking about?

Only one volume (out of three) was completed.