Caitanya Caritamrta Of Krsnadasa Kaviraja :: Edward Dimock - Harvard Oriental Series

I was so happy to receive this book last night that I asked Madhava to create this forum for such posts. As I have only just received the book, I cannot give it a fitting review, but what I did read gave me much pleasure and I look forward to reading it.

The text is based on a translation from Radhagovinda Natha's commentary, and while I was initially disappointed to find that it doesn't have Roman transliterations or word-for-words, the copious notes, compactness of having a single book and the sheer pleasure of seeing something you "know" from a different angle, outweigh that limitation. And speaking of outweighing--the book is heavy! It also costs around US$100 but I was able to get a used-but-new condition copy for $70 thru AbeBooks.

I am reading that book for about a year now. It is great, feels good. I would not read all of the introduction though. It is definitely worth the money, considering the quality of work that they put in. I'd never look at any other English version again. There is no comparison with that wishy-washy style of the only other one available.
Joy Nitai!

Forbidden fruit? Now I'll definitely read it.



Wishy washy your mouth, Sir.

Yes, wishy washy gladly, if I do not have to read.

Well, beware of the parts of the introduction which can shake your faith. Some footnotes can do the same.

I went to the link to Abe Books but where is the CC? If I type it in the search box there is no response...

I have the book at home.
very interesting and and beautifully translated.

should i scan in some pages?

Radhe!

Dimock at Amazon

Enter "Caitanya" in the title field and "Dimock" in the author. The title is often misspelled so it's not a reliable way to search. Unfortunately there is only one copy in there at the moment, it seems and it is going for $99, the same price at Amazon. A week or so back they had a copy for sale from England that was even cheaper than the $70 I paid but unfortunately it was already sold by the time I tried to buy it. Their inventory changes quite often.

Ah, Fetchbook has a copy listed at $77: http://www.fetchbook.info/compare.do?search=0674002857

(I'd assume that all used copies will be in good condition--the book is very sturdy and doesn't have a dust jacket.)

Jaya Sri Sri Gaura-Gadadhara. I'm trying to aquire a copy of C.C translated by Edward Dimock. Does anyone out there know of any book shops or internet sites in the U.K that might stock it, i tried Amazon. Thanks.

TarunKishordas.

Yes please scan in some pages, I would love to see some of it, preface, intro, some of the text itself..whatever you choose.

Jai Radhe

The only problem is the citations from Bhagavat and other slokas are not always very clear. Perhaps the translator was not familiar with the original context of the slokas. For example, the famous "sarvopadhi vinirmuktam......etc. the translation runs thus; Bhakti is said by Hrsika to be the service of Hrsikesa, the pure, and devoid of all kinds of deception, by means of mastery of the senses.
I am no sanskrt scholar, but what think ye learned ones?
Again, "Just as Radha is the beloved of Visnu, so is she a reservoir of love for him......etc.
And this for the "atmaramasca munayo.......etc.
"Even though they are not possessed of books, those sages who delight in the self offer selfless bhakti to the great striding (Visnu); of such qualities is Hari.
On page 563 you will find a most heretical foot note, which in my book has been erased.
So watch out for dodgy citations and maybe look them up from the source books.

Another Bhag 1,13,10
"Bhagavatas like you are themselves the true forms of pilgrimage places; They make pilgrimage to all the pilgrimage places by means of Gadadhara, who is situated in their own hearts."
Still the Bengali flows in the English very nicely and so it is surprising that some of the slokas quoted are quite clumsey.

And sorry to harp on about it but "goose flesh!" for pulaka

Hi All,

I am glad to see that Ed's translation of the Cc is being discussed here. It is a great piece of work that he labored over for nearly twenty years. Using the Radhagovinda edition and commentary as its source was a great idea. Ed was, however, quite limited in his facility with Bengali. It often surprised me. Fortunately for his translation of the Cc, Tony Stewart took it under his wing and rooted out many of Ed's mistranslations. Tony really does know what he is doing. Unfortunately, the Sanskrit verses were done by Hans van Buitenen. When I was a grad student at the U of C we read portions of the translation in several classes I took with Ed. I noticed then that the Sanskrit translations were often nonsensical. One verse I found had an English translation that was exactly the opposite of what the Sanskrit said. I pointed this out to Ed and he took note of it, but I don't think he took me seriously at that point. Here was a first year grad student criticizing the work of the great Hans. I don't know when Hans did the translations for the Cc, but I suspect they were done towards the end of his life. He was an alcoholic and eventually wound up drinking himself to death. I attribute his mistranslations to the alcoholic haze he lived in for the last ten years of his life. Also, Hans did not know Bengali or as far as I know the Bengali script. If he did he would have been able to take advantage of the anvaya Radhagovinda Nath provided for each of the Sanskrit verses in his edition based on the comm. of Sridhara Swami. Even so, Hans had access to Sridhara's comm. in other editions and should have made use of it. That is the biggest flaw in this translation of the Cc. Tony Stewart was not able to do much on the Sanskrit verses because his knowledge of Skt is weak. Since there are so many Skt verses in the Cc, it is a big flaw. Thus, Dimock's translation though definitely the best available could still stand much improvement.

I pity those of you whose faith is so weak that you cannot read the introduction. Are you saying that everything you read is true? Therefore, better not read something so you will not be exposed to an unpleasant truth? Will an opposing opinion kill you? Such tender things you are. How will you survive in this rugged world?

What would you have instead? That horri-ble word horripilation?

goosebumps? thats the common term (at least here in the US)

How does that differ from goose flesh? There is still a goose in the picture.

I guess I'm alone on the goose flesh as so many translators use the term, but yes that horrible word horripilation just needs getting used to. Bristling hair or something. I guess it takes courage to say horripilation, but actually, mad as it is, I think the word is quite onomatopoeic

There's also "goose pimples" but maybe that is British? Having the image of goose flesh just seems so out of place. I'd prefer something simple even if not succinct, e.g. "His hair stood on end."

goose-flesh I have seen used in english translations several times, it's just the Indian twist it seems.

And the introductory matter is very interesting including a diagram of the Avatara system. I think Navadvipa offers a caution about it because there are some things that would definitely offend, as also with the foot notes. But having said all that it really is a masterpiece and very enlivening to read.
One does not wish to hear one's Ista brought down from the high ideal, and it is a devotional work.
Just like servant of Advaita candra who wrote to king about the Acarya's divinity and then explained how he was in debt.
Even Mahaprabhu himself could not tolerate hearing conflicting rasa or siddhanta virudha.

This is how the English Bard does it, but this would be "Gastly rasa"
....And each particular hair to stand an end,
Like quills upon the fretful porpentine...

At least the fretful porpentine has some defense system in place; pity the poor goose. He's naked before the pot! The goosely rasa.

BTW, I have an extra copy of Dimock's Cc. So if anyone wants a copy, please let me know. It's currently available at Amazon for $99.95-$150. (Not sure why anyone would compete with Amazon's price at Amazon, but they do say they only have one copy left). It will be $80 + postage...but if anyone is going to be at the Lake Washington gathering this week, I'll give them preference just so I don't have to package it up for mailing.

Braja,

Could you bring that one copy to Lake Washington fo a look without pre-commitment? I am pretty curious now about the Trying Introduction.

I think its a little more palatable than 'goose flesh'. Goosebumps are little other than the bumps humans get on their skin.. 'goose flesh' is, well, goose skin. How about calling it what it is the 'pilomotor reflex' & have done with it

Really, I've often heard the condition being called 'goosebumps' in casual conversation.. 'It was so cold I got goosebumps', but I have never heard someone refer to it as 'goose flesh'. It sounds very antiquated & creepy.

Most of all, it sounds creepy. I get a picture of a farmer running after a turkey for Christmas.

"Hey Hari, Hari! When will the day come when, chanting your name, I will experience sudden pilomotor reflexes?"

I really don't see what is wrong with "horripilation" goose anything is a gross metaphor though idiomatic and easily grasped.
In the dictionary they say goose flesh, however etymelogically we have the Latin horrere-to bristle+pilus-hair.
Let's have a good picture of a Kadamba kusuma, because that is what is most often refered to as metaphor, kadamba kesara jini pulaka mukula/etc. etc.
Thrilled with horripilation that chides the tender fillaments of the Kadamba flower.

Not only that, but everytime one says "horripilation" one is also inadvertantly uttering the the holy name of Hari, with Bengali pronounciation

Maybe that is why it could be onomatapaoec

Well I'm upto chapter 22 madhya lila Sanatana siksa and I must say the translation really falls short in the phylosophical portions. Countless mistakes like, bhedAbheda prakAsa - immenent and transcendant(?) and the quotes from the Bhagavat(there are alot in this section) are very badly done, some completely misconstrued, some incomplete etc. The only quotes that are reliable are the odd few from the Gita. Still the narrative sections are sweet and sensetive, which makes it all the more disappointing when you come to a quote or a phylosophical passage. I have no idea what someone not familiar with it would make of it.

The last section of chapter 22 is good in it's rendering of Raganuga sadhana paripAti. I can't wait to get to Antya lila when Rupa is coerced to recite alot of his verses. I hope they have been translated nicely.