Saffron - Subal Das's Autobiography - Response to editorial

Thanks so much for posting that. A few questions and comments after my initial read.

First of all, I have to say that I am glad you are not a peacock! Not that I have anything against them though. They are highly placed members of Vraja-lila, afterall. What is the origin of that rumor, repeated so often by PADA?

When you write about ekadasa-bhava, you say:



Did you take that to mean that you would be spontaneously attracted over time or that you were already spontaneously attracted?

Regarding the poisoning of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, (I guess this is a question to others also): did you come across that idea solely from Lalita Prasad Thakura, or from other sources also?

And from the really miscellaneous department:

In Seva-kunj, wouldn't Krsna hug the golden tree, and Radha, the blackish?

When you mention seeing a gnu, was that a nilgai, the famed "blue cow"? I always thought a gnu was a wildebeest.

Sorry, I think I miss the joke about the peacock and PADA's rumor.

Regarding picking my ekadasa bhava, I took it to mean that I was ready to pick my own at that time. You may notice that he asked me what my favorite service was and assigned me accordingly.

Regarding the poisoning, I only heard that from Lalita Prasad.

Regarding the trees, what you say makes sense, but you can also look at it that the trees took on the nature of the person that they were embraced by. I wrote that long ago when my memory of the place was much better than now. Someone who has been there more recently and knows the story may clarify this.

A wildebeest is a gnu. Websters says a gnu is "any of a genus of Aftrican antelope, with an oxlike head, short mane, downward-curved horns, and long tail." The animal I saw and was told was a gnu had sort of a deer or antelope-like head with kind of a cow body and was tannish in color as I remember it. Again, it's been a long time.

The sort of negotiation Subal describes seems to correspond with what Bhatkivinoda writes in Jaiva Dharma and elsewhere (I think I probably read it also in Shukavak's book, so I don't remember offhand where BVT would have written it).

How refreshing that you are out of the loop on this one! PADA (Prabhupada Anti-Defamation Association) is run by a rather disagreeable character named Puranjana Das, who thinks that protecting Prabhupada's good name means to vilify everyone who has ever had the misfortune to put tilak on. A rather curious tactic that defies logic.

Almost anyone who has risen out of anonymity has at one time or another been the butt of his usually scatological rebukes, including you. But you are only an accessory to the fun he makes of the siddha-pranali system. He suggests that Lalita Prasad Thakur gave you the identity of a peacock in Vrindavan, as a kind of spiritual discrimination--Indians get to be gopis, Westerners get to be lower creatures. The peacock story is actually a persistent Iskcon "urban myth" that has also been applied to Hrishikesh, who supposedly was given this identity by Bon Maharaj.

Be proud, Subal, we all wear our condemnation by PADA as a badge of honor. It's like being mentioned in the Drudge Report. I should mention, however, that you must never, ever communicate with PADA, especially not in an attempt to correct mistakes of fact or logic. He is as impermeable to rational argument as lead is to Superman's X-Ray vision.

I have to admit that in my case, it is only through my work for Tripurari Maharaj that I have been targetted, for PADA hates Tripurari a great deal.

And I should add that Gaudiya Discussions is a proudly PADA-free zone. It is usually "the name that is uttered at thy peril"!

Just in case you care to know what it's all about, read for example this page (look for #3). Both of you have ended up in the same rant, I note.

[ devotional advisory :: explicit content ]

Jagat,

Thanks for the clarification and the warning. I think I fell in with the right group here by Krishna's grace. I have seen other "vaishnava" forums that are much more caustic where I would not dare to say the things I say here. I think we're in the same ball park and there are rules to the game enforced by moderators. I feel pretty safe here although it's always scary to spill one's guts as much as I do.

Radhe Radhe!
Subal

Oh, so true! Don't ever, ever engage with him! I have done so occasionally, and the only result is the deisre to put one's own head through a wall (which is probably very similar to discussing anything with him).

"Jagat is the new darling of the Tripurari camp, bedazzling even Tripurari with his sanskrit elucidations, so much so that Tripurari even fell out of his vyasasana chair..."

Well, some say any press is good press. At least they haven't forgotten me although his view is obviously quite distorted. Some I don't mind being lumped in with and others I do. Thanks for the heads up.

I recall once reading a statement from AC Bhaktivedanta Swami, where he suggests that someone also tried to poison Bhaktisiddhanta. I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.

"My Guru Maharaja also."

Look it up in the "poison" documents.

Right, thanks.


That, however, leaves it open whether his Guru Maharaja also was poisoned, or whether his Guru Maharaja also ate only food cooked by his own men.

For me, reading this sequence, it means clearly, he is talking like any Indian, of the last mentioned thought. Most "simple" Indians, in conversation, are not capable to hold a complex thought, or to bridge a previous idea over another one. This is Western thinking here, to suppose that he insinuated something in his simple statement. To say it clearly: the last mentioned thought is that the gurus will not

and he is commenting on that:

From common-sense experience with English-knowing Indians in India there is no doubt about this.

Tamal also understood it that way. He would have jumped at the opportunity to discuss a sensational statement like his guru's assertion of his paramguru's poisoning. In the conversation it was clear what was meant, however. If you put yourself in the position of holding a conversation with an Indian, you always feel as though you have to push a thought so the other person can immediately respond to that.

"The Psychology of Indians."

However, judging by the statements in Subalji's text, it is clear that some suspected Bhaktisiddhanta of being poisoned though. Not least his own brother.

"...now, one thing is I understand that in the past you were visiting Lalita Prasad and that you may also be planning to continue visiting him when you return to India. This is not approved of by me and I request you not to go and see him any more. He holds a grudge against my Guru Maharaja and even if it is transcendental it will gradually appear mundane in our eyes. Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction. So I hope that you have understood these matters and I pray to Krishna always for your protection and advancement in Krishna consciousness."

(Srila Prabhupada, to Gurukripa and Yashodananda Swamis, Dec 25, 1975)